Dudelsack 

Those types of stores are illegal in Chicago. The south side might only have convenience stores.

AzTallRider

I suspect that you simply made a choice, and then stuck with it. Perhaps it was the right time in your life, perhaps there was some other motivating factor, or maybe a basic change in priorities. I did the same, dropping about 30 pounds. Clearly will power in one area of your life doesn't always translate to will power in another are of your life. That doesn't mean that obesity doesn't reflect a lack of will power in that area of the obese person's life. At 6'6" I wasn't obese, but I was certainly above my ideal weight.

Dudelsack 

Anyway, enough of pointing fingers.

Last year was a crap year for me because "I just didn't feel like cycling (or anything else)". I gained weight and started having ortho problems. I felt like refried crap. Then I bought a new bike, riding it every chance I get, and working out at the gym one or two days a week.

It is not a habit yet, in fact it's a struggle, especially on riding days where the temps don't go over 32F. However, having a short term goal ('six week fitness challenge' at my gym) and a long term goal (ahem, cough, the PBP in 2015 *snicker*) has helped.

I share my experiences in the workplace. One or two might repent of their self-destructive ways. You never know.

AzTallRider

I just did a quick check, and that particular 'food desert' has been shrinking. As an example, Englewood has a Sav-A-Lot, which is a discount grocery chain owned by SuperValu. My point is that eating healthy may not be the easist choice, but it is a choice that is available. Sadly, our society is very much about making the easy choice.

Allegheny Jet

My son's appartment building has a Whole Foods store on the ground floor. Although he refers to it as the "Wholepaycheck food store".

freighttraininguphill

As a friend of a morbidly obese man who has been in the process of losing weight since the summer of 2010, I find the self-righteous attitudes towards obese people repulsive.

Soon after he started the weight loss process, we visited a LBS that rents a side-by-side recumbent tandem trike by the hour. We wanted to rent one for an hour or two. The owner took one look at us and told us our combined weight was too much for the trike.

The trike has a weight limit of 600 lbs, so I asked him if it was okay for my friend to ride it and I would ride my own bike. With just him on it, he would be well below the weight limit. The owner made my friend sit on the bike and bounce up and down, telling him that he would pop the tires if he rode that bike. He claimed that an obese woman caused the tires on such a bike to go flat simply due to her weight.

That experience was extremely humiliating to my friend, and he has vowed to never go there again, no matter how much weight he loses.

We left that shop and my friend bought himself a hybrid and a recumbent trike. He has lost about 50 pounds so far, with more coming off each week.

To the casual observer, he still looks like someone who "doesn't take care of himself", but the reality is quite the opposite.

A few weeks ago I mentioned the incident to the shop owner. This is the shop where I bought my Worksman Port-O-Trike and many accessories, so I was a good customer there. My friend wanted to buy an Xceon bike light/mp3 player, but didn't want to buy it from this shop because of how he was treated.

When I mentioned this to the owner, he got very defensive when I mentioned how much he hurt my friend's feelings. He denied making him bounce up and down on the trike. He said that people that overweight were "offensive" to him. Then he said he didn't want to talk about it anymore.

I will never buy another thing from that shop as long as the owner has that attitude. Unfortunately, I doubt he will ever change.

That self-righteous holier-than-thou BS makes me sick! What right does this guy have to judge my friend and act like he killed a puppy or something?

BluesDawg

Many food deserts are shrinking across the country (but many more still exist) because of the efforts of people who recognize they exist and the problems they present. The obesity epidemic is a complex problem with many contributing causes. Personal choice is part of it as are the actions of food manufacturers, distributors and advertisers. Changes have to happen in all of these areas and others to solve the problem. Pointing fingers and making people "bad guys" is human nature but not part of the solution.

mikepwagner

I don't understand why it was so easy to all of the sudden drop over 90 lbs. But I am sure it wasn't much of a struggle or sudden attack of discipline.

That I think was sort of my point - claiming that obesity is related to a general "will power" issue in someone's life ha some value as an explanation.

But the claim that obesity reflects a specific problem with "will power with regard to eating" has very little value as an explanation - it's pretty much a circular definition.

As an analog, if you tell me that people who have insomnia due do due to tension, that's an explanation. If you tell me that people who have insomnia do so due to "the lack of an ability to fall asleep and stay asleep", you haven't explained very much.

rdtompki

We are bombarded by media telling us what we should crave and portraying the most unhealthy of food choices. The trend is changing. I don't know about other states, but in California more and more restaurants are posting calories alongside menu items and this includes Starbucks and traditional fast food restaurants. When you see the number of calories in a Cheeseburger (MacDonalds), a creamy pasta dish (Marie Calendars) or a scone (Starbucks) you really do think at least twice. This seems to be a societal problems with some individuals more susceptible than others, but I don't think it's as simple as "will power".

Artkansas 

Come on down to Little Rock. At the intersection of Brown and Roosevelt, you might be able to cage some donuts from the cop station across the street, but there are no grocery stores, the Walmarts are all on the west side of town and there isn't a Costco in the entire state. The dollar stores nearby might have something though.

I ride the buses alot, and in Little Rock, people talk on the buses so you get to know them. There are a few slackers, but most are hard-working, church-going folks who may have 2-3 jobs trying to keep a roof over their head. What they don't have is an education and the big picture that you do.

on the path

I get your point, but in no way do I think that food manufacturers, distributors and advertisers are responsible for the obesity epidemic. And trust me, I have no particular fondness for the food and advertising industries.

It's about personal choices. Responsible choices are made based on personal education and awareness. I am skeptical of all advertising, if I don't ignore it completely. I am very aware of the nutritional value of all the foods I eat. I always read labels. I eat very little processed foods. Fast food "restaurants", forget it. I don't eat that food, period. My diet is hardly perfect, but at least I know what it is that I'm eating. My choices might not always be the wisest, but at least they are informed choices.

BikeArkansas

A true society of victims. If I understand this correctly, fat people are a victim of Wal-Mart because a SuperCenter is not in their back yard. I believe you really must work at being a victim to believe this.

How about getting off the couch as a solution to being fat. My doctor wanted to put me on all kinds of medicine because I was subject to diabetes and had high blood pressure and a cholesterol problem. I got off the couch. No excuses, I was fat because I was LAZY. The first thing I had to do was admit to myself that I was lazy. Now I am on no medicines and have lost over 40 pounds, but I guess the main reason for this is that I live about 5 miles from Wal-Mart. How silly of me, as I thought it was due to taking up
some hard core exercise, including the bicycle and cutting the volume of food considerably. Who knew?

bruce19

I guess I wouldn't find it disgusting if I wasn't one of the many bearing the cost of their health care. I didn't say nor did I mean to imply that I can't see the value in people regardless of their condition in life. I just don't want to pay for their care when they end up with diabetes, cancer, etc. I feel the same way about people who ride motorcycles without wearing helmets. I think they should have the right to make the choice but when they end up with injuries I don't want to bear the burden of their care. Maybe "disgusting" is too harsh a word but, then again in these economic times, maybe not.

BluesDawg

Apparently you do not understand correctly if that is what you think is being said.

jbman100

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the advancement of technology. When I was a kid there were 3 TV stations. Cable TV hadn't caught on yet and there were no home video games. You wanted to play video games you had to go to an arcade. Usually by walking or biking. Kids were full of energy so there was always a game of some kind being played somewhere. I was always tall for my age so I was ALWAYS playing basketball at some playground near my house. Now a days there are 300 cable channels and 5 or 6 different types of video game consoles to choose from. Why get up to go outside and do something when you can stay inside in the AC and be entertained and not even leave the comfort of your bedroom.

BikeArkansas

I believe I did understand. The claim is that grocery stores do not locate in certain areas, so people go to convenience stores, which provide only high fat foods. If Wal-Mart SuperCenter located in those areas they would have good food and not be fat. What did I miss?

Wogster

Obesity rates have come about because eating and exercise habits have outstripped genetics. Let me explain.

For thousands of years, people went through times when crops and livestock were plentiful, and you could eat hearty (we call this feast times), and everyone put on a few pounds. Then you would have another time, when crops were poor and livestock were even worse,, we call this a time of famine. Genetics were designed for the feast/famine cycle so when times were good, the excess could be stored in the body, so that when the time of famine came, you had enough to keep you alive, with what little you could get. With the wonders of modern shipping, we have eliminated the famine part in North America The last famine in North America was in the 1930's. Which is why so many people get fat, genetics makes the high fat, high sugar foods, what we prefer, to make the store as large as possible, for when the next famine cycle comes along.

The only way to fix this, is for the individual to VOLUNTARILY induce an artificial famine cycle, by intentionally eating less then they need to survive, while at the same time, making sure they burn as much as possible. Trying to convince someone to do this, that does not want to, is an exercise it futility. Convincing them, that they want to is the key....

goldfinch

This is what I've been saying repeatedly on the Clydes/Athena forum. Attributing weight to lack of willpower or personal choice begs the question. It is simply saying that a person can lose weight because he can. It also shows polarized thinking, that the world is black or white and we have on and off switches.

Others say losing weight is simple--eat less. Which is another fallacy, the "only reason" someone is fat is that they ate too much. Okay. Not very helpful and also not accurate.

But people rag on me on the Clydes forum for making things complicated. Well, sorry, weight loss and especially maintenance of lost weight is complicated.

Everything we do is the result of causes. Our genes. Our hormones. Our environment. Our relationships. Our learned behaviors. Our thoughts. Etc. All these affect what we do and who we are. Self control is not a stand alone characteristic. There isn't some Mystical Force of Will where girding our loins and gritting our teeth can overcome everything else that operates on us to make us who we are. After all, most everyone who loses weight regains it. We all want to keep off the weight but biology can trump self control. What is important is not assigning blame. It is trying to figure out ways to help people get to and stay at a healthy weight. But the conversations usually never get that far and instead get caught up in blame.

From Jeffrey Friedman, a scientist who discovered Leptin, a hormone important in appetite regulation:


“There can be no meaningful discussion of obesity until we resist the impulse to assign blame. Nor can we hold to the simple belief that with willpower alone, one can consciously resist the allure of food and precisely control one’s weight.“

The facts are these “(i) the increasing incidence of obesity in the population is not reflected by a proportionate increase in weight; (ii) the drive to eat is to a large extent hardwired, and differences in weight are genetically determined; and (iii) obesity can be a good thing depending on the environment in which one (or one’s ancestors) finds oneself.”

“Twin studies, adoption studies, and studies of familial aggregation confirm a major contribution of genes to the development of obesity. Indeed, the heritability of obesity is equivalent to that of height and exceeds that of many disorders for which a genetic basis is generally accepted. It is worth noting that height has also increased significantly in Western countries in the 20th Century.”

“In general, obesity genes encode the molecular components of the physiologic system that regulates energy balance. This system precisely matches energy intake (food) to energy expenditure to maintain constant energy stores, principally fat. That there must be a system balancing food intake and energy expenditure is suggested by the following analysis. Over the course of a decade, a typical persons consumes approximately 10 million calories, generally with only a modest change in weight. To accomplish this, food intake must precisely match energy output within 0.17% over that decade. This extraordinary level of precision exceeds by several orders of magnitude the ability of nutritionists to count calories and suggests that conscious factors alone are incapable of precisely regulating caloric intake.”

“Feeding is a complex motivational behavior, meaning that many factors influence the likelihood that the behavior will be initiated. These factors include the unconscious urge to eat that is regulated by leptin and other hormones, the conscious desire to eat less (or more), sensory factors such as smell or taste, emotional state, and others. The greater the weight loss, the greater the hunger and, sooner or later for most dieters, a primal hunger trumps the conscious desire to be thin.”

The increase in weight is not evenly distributed in the population. “In modern times, some individuals have manifested a much greater increase of BMI than others, strongly suggesting the possibility that in our population (species) there is a subgroup that is genetically susceptible to obesity and a different subgroup that is relatively resistant.”

“Obesity is not a personal failing. In trying to lose weight, the obese are fighting a difficult battle. It is a battle against biology, a battle that only the intrepid take on and one in which only a few prevail.” A war on obesity, not the obese. [Science. 2003] – PubMed – NCBI.

--quoted in https://www.downeyobesityreport.com/t...frey-friedman/

on the path

Sorry, I don't buy it. You can sell a lot to fat people. Sell them pills, supplements, exercise equipment, surgery. The diet/weight loss industry is huge. You can sell them ideas too. Tell them they're not responsible. It works. People buy it.

It's really not that complicated. Really. Move more, eat less, eat right. Hard to make money with those simple concepts, but that's what works. There's a very small percentage of people that might have issues, but for the vast majority of people, it works.

I recently ran into someone I hadn't seen since 50 lbs ago. He asked me how I did it. Radical idea, I said.. diet and exercise.

tmac100

I read the first dozen diatribes/sermons/rebuttals/??? and decided the best thing for me is to stop reading these opinions and go for a nice bike ride to burn away some fat and to force some red blood cells to go to places they normally don't frequent a whole lot

Dudelsack 

Of course. Increase your leptin. Decrease your ghrelin. Simple as sugar-free pie.

How do you do that? Get a good night's sleep so you feel like exercising in the morning. Did anyone read my link about twenty posts ago?

When I checked this thread yesterday evening I had returned from a Mexican restaurant. I'm so ashamed...

Artkansas 

It's good to know that 50+ forum will not be outshone by the Roadies, A&S, or P&R in deciding what other people should do.

Teamfour

This only works if the customer is educated on the effects of too many calories. Posting this data is only half the battle.

NOS88

Well, it seems we have reached the point where four distinctive camps have emerged.

1. Those who think it's a matter of will power. From the logic presented here one might conclude that people who drink too much, smoke, gamble too much, spend hours a day playing video games or looking at porn on the Internet all lack sufficient will power. Hence, it some manner they are defective.

2. Those who think it is more complicated than will power. If it were so easy, more people would do it. For some people it is far from easy, and will power has little to do with it. They are no more or less defective than anyone else.

3. Those who aren't sure. They see some merit to both arguments, but can't seem to fully embrace either.

4. Those who don't care one way or another.

I think one of the more interesting things is that everyone might agree that a cycling program is helpful (i.e. can add to one's quality of life) to almost everyone, regardless of their unique situation. One of the hardest things for me continues to be that of recognizing my bias and bigotry. And, yes, I believe it is very difficult to grow up anywhere without that particular culture instilling some kinds of bias. As noticed in post numbers 4 & 6 in this thread, I have my moments of bigotry. I think at best I'll be in recovery from the bias I've accumulated over the years. The most I can do is recognize it and attempt to control and/or deal with it. Cycling is such a beautiful activity on so many levels; I just wish we could leave the venom, anger, abhorrence out of it.

AzTallRider

I think that, to a large degree, our perspectives reflect our personal experiences. We know what has worked for us, and believe it has widespread applicability. Sometimes we're right, and sometimes we're wrong. Fortunately, science can help sort things out, and our understanding of our bodies, and what drives us, is constantly growing. One thing is certain: consistent, frequent, and strenuous exercise does a person a world of good, and is likely to get a person into a good weight range. We are lucky that, as cyclists, our exercise is truly enjoyable, and it is easy to become passionate about our sport. Those factors increase the likelihood of being consistent with our exercise.

I've volunteered to be on my companies wellness committee, and will do whatever I can to help those who willing to battle their obesity and improve their fitness.