Hmmm, that does not make sense on the battery. I have ultegra electronic shifting on my bike. Had the bike 14 months, 9,000 miles and charged the battery 4 times that I can remember.

Yeah I think I ride a lot also.

We have sold a few bikes with Ultegra Di2 at the shop where I work part time. Very cool stuff that works well and the owners are very happy with it. The first time we set one up, we all stood around like the chimps staring at the monolith in 2001 a Space Odyssey amazed at how the front derailleur seemed to magically trim itself as we shifted the rear through the cogs. I would really like to check out the Campy EPS system.

Your battery data matches my experience with Di2. I used Di2 for 3 years before selling it to a local rider. He loves it.

I was looking at a video of Di2 electric shifters.

Do they really still use the two-brifter controls? All you need is one that shifts up or down, with the computer figuring out front and rear chainrings/cogs, right?

It's really just a solenoid system that relies on electrical impulses from the controls to signal the shifts.

You still need separate controls and you still need to make a decision about which gears you want to be in, front or rear. The principles of manual shifting haven't changed or been superseded.

Rohloff doesn't need them , though an Australian company offers one ..
not sure whether it's a rocker switch or up/down buttons ..

the rotary shifting sequence already makes it pretty simple to operate..

be it grip shifter or servo motor, & buttons..

I'm a few hundred miles into my new bike with Ultegra di2. I currently have a 30 yr old mtb with friction shifting, a hybrid with trigger shifting, and my son has sram grip shifters. the di2 is sweet! In addition to being easier and more consistent than any of the other systems, being able to shift while accelerating scores a lot of points, as does being easy to operate with numb hands.

Worth the price of admission.

I have had one dead battery about 2 weeks in, but I'm not sure how charged the batery was when I got it, and I forgot to check. I'll be getting into the habit of checking the battery when I check tire pressure before a ride.

I see an application for electronic shifting for time trial bikes. First, one can put shift buttons on the bullhorns as well as the aerobars which is an advantage. Today, UCI measure the maximum allowable distance from the centerline of the crank to the centerline of the bolt on the aerobar shifter. That is going to change to the end of the aerobar shift lever when it is extended forward. Weight is not that big of a deal on a TT bike where aerodynamics drive the bike design. And low gears are not essential for a TT bike. Most are more concerned with larger chainrings. If the climbing is significant, riders use their road bikes with clip on bars.

I talked with my LBS about D/A Di2. The new electronic D/A only works with 11 speed cassettes. I would have to convert a number of wheel sets to 11 speed at an estimated cost of $250 per rear wheel. That is not huge but I also have to buy new cassettes.

For now, I am sticking with SRAM red and D/A 10 speed shifting. Resistance is futile but I think over time the electronic shifting will improve and cost less.

What I would like to see is a light weight hub transmission that offers large range close spaced gear selection and no front der is required - no more dropped chains and less maintenance. Electronic shifting is very cool but not a game changing technology.

Hey, Vic, Campy called...they want their shifters back...




Weren't there discussions like this when index shifting showed up? Well, here we are a quarter century later...

I think if we could fast forward about 20 years, you will see only electronic shifting on new bicycles, even cheap ones, it's simply easier to build, because the wires don't need to be at specific tension and don't need specific routing. Having said this though, considering that there are a lot of 30 and 40 year old bicycles around, I don't think that cable shifted bicycles are going to disappear anytime soon.

What will be interesting though, will the manufacturers do what the electronics industry does, generation 2, has a different battery design, then generation 1, so that the manufacturer can stop making generation 1 replacement batteries forcing you to replace the entire system when the battery fails to charge. These batteries are the same voltage, same amp/hrs, but the battery is a slightly different shape so that they don't fit in the same physical space.

I suppose I am not surprised to see so many 50 plusers rejecting the idea of electronic shifting. But if the question is asked in the racing forum, even the masters' racing forum, one gets a much more uniformly positive response. Excellent reliability, greater precision, battery life that is exceptionally long and gives plenty of warning of the need to recharge, the ability to move all the way up and down the block instantly if required.. . I've borrowed a Di2-equipped bike to try it and the advantages seem real and would definitely confer a benefit when racing.

So if I keep racing, as I intend, then Di2 or more probably Ui2, will definitely be in my future. I would have had it installed on the custom bike I'm currently having made, but I won't be racing that bike and I had a triple groupset sitting around that I had picked up cheap, so decided against it. I share some of the sentiments of those who say "yes, but the point of a bike is is simplicity", but really, I'm riding a carbon-fibre bike with aerodynamic carbon race wheels and twenty gears shifted by indexed integrated units. Or, on another bike, a Rohloff planetary hub gear with 14 gears that is a positive miracle of engineering. It seems eccentric to adopt every advance except the most recent. When I want simplicity I can always get on the fixed gear.

It's been happening with cameras for years. Likely the manufacturers who supply the batteries will continue making them, and offer them at cheap prices on eBay. That's where I source the additional batteries for my video and still cameras.

I think that once economies of scale come into it, there will be enough batteries around to recondition, too.

I have it on two bikes. One is DA Di2 which I've had for over 2 years, and the other is Ultegra Di2. They function identically.

I get less battery life than some folks. I think I just shift a lot. I need to charge every 5 or 600 miles. I've had the battery get low on me a few times. The first thing that goes is the front shifting. Then you need to "ration" your rear shifts until you get home. I don't let it get past the "blinkie green" indicator any more.

Except for maybe a commuter bike or some other special purpose bike, such as a 29er I have my eye on, I don't plan on having a bike without electronic shifting again.

That depends though on where you are, it is true you can get any battery you want, cheap, providing your in the USA. If your outside the USA, then often not, this isn't the case. A Lithium Ion battery for example contains Lithium, which is considered a toxic material, at least for international shipping, and that makes it complicated, and complicated means expensive.

I'm in Australia. No issues here for the small batteries we are discussing, even coming from Asia.

Depends on age, fitness and terrain in my case. I could ride without a triple with an 11-34 or 11-36 cassette, but really don't like the spacing on my single. I'm much happier with the 52-39-30 chain set and a 12-30 cassette and even then would want an 11-36 for a 100K or more with a lot of climbing, say 100'/mile. I don't see a triple electronic setup any time soon. I do like the technology, however.

I missed the discussion, but I still hate indexed shifting. Bar end shifts set to freedom.

I've tried it twice, on trainers. I'd love to have it on my bikes, but cost is still the deciding factor.

The Di2 includes two microprocessors. (https://www.popsci.com/content/powered-gear-shifters.)

My point is that it's a trivial matter to have the microprocessors take your simple signal (shift up or shift down), and decide which derailler (or both) to use. You could write the code for this in minutes. This is something the computer should do, not you.

Of course, someone at Shimano would have thought of that, so either they don't want to scare us dumb bicyclists with a new paradigm, or there's some other reason to do it the old way.

And can someone tell me why they don't do this wirelessly?

If I were designing it, you'd have a little doohickey that goes on your thumb. Push down (flex) to shift down and push up to shift up. Accessible no matter where your hand is.

I was excited when Di2 was released in Ultegra. Price went down and design modified from the D/A version. I'm really looking forward to getting a Di2 bike, probably because I work for NASA and have been at the forefront of technology for 30 years now. When Ultegra 6800 Di2 is released this November, I hope it is at a price point that I can afford.

Which model Domane was that, with Ultegra Di2 for $4,300? That's actually a pretty good price. I was quoted a Domane 6.2 with Ultegra 6700 at $4,000 even.

I imagine one reason is that were it wireless, you'd need two batteries, one for each mech.

As for the computer deciding which derailleur, I doubt that would be popular with racers. It isn't just a question of whether you want to gear up or gear down, it's a question of anticipating what you're going to need next. So if I'm hammering up a short hill I might want to leave it in the big ring and cross-chain, knowing that I'm going to want to press on over the top without shifting again at the front: whereas were the hill a little longer I might choose the equivalent ratio using the small ring and smaller sprocket, knowing that my next move is likely to be down rather than up.

Bwahaahaaa! That's funny!

You should see my cellphone. Every time my daughter see is it, she says: "Hey Dad, the 80s are calling. They want their cellphone back."

And oddly enough, I'd be totally happy with downtube non-indexed shifting too. The only serious advantage I see to indexed shifting is the fact that you can put so many more gears on the rear cassette when they are indexed. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy with downtube friction shifting.

Ah, interesting, that could explain it. But does it matter if you might have to shift both the FD and RD if it is done for you, and you can shift while accelerating? IOW, why do you leave it in the big ring and cross-chain, and is that reason valid with electric shifting?

Mavic tried a wireless system (Mekktronic? I believe) in the 90's and RF signal interference from the various radios and electronic devices around the cyclist caused ghost shifts. They would need to work out a shielding method or some type of coding or encrypting method in order to keep the outside RF signals from interfering with the receivers and transmitters a wireless system would entail. It is doable, from an engineering and electronics standpoint, they just need the financial impetus to make it happen.

As far as the questions about the shifting order and multiple shifts I seem to remember reading that Shimano had the software and dongle to do programming on the newest iterations of Di2, so they could match Campagnolo's ability to shift the entire cassette block in one movement. I may well be wrong, but if they have someone could write code to hack the program and have shift groups programmed, the buttons to do so would be in issue then, I suspect.

Finally, I don't plan to switch personally, I just want the simplicity I have now. I would be happy with a friction shifting system and the old school 5X2 gears if I could afford to restore a C&V ride. The brifter is enough technology for me.

Bill

Good question, it is possible that I am applying old thinking to a new situation. If the Di2 system is not merely more precise but also radically reduces the chance of dropping the chain (it may) and if simultaneously shifting front and rear is just as clean and quick as shifting solely at the rear (possible, but I'd take convincing) then a semi-automatic system would be acceptable. But I'd want to stick with manual control until those things were shown to be true.