I think it is pretty cool, particularly from my electronics/engineering background and would like to try it out sometime, but I don't see my self going for it ever. I don't race, etc. and only commute and sometimes long rides on the weekend. I haven't even updated to indexing and still ride a friction shifting, 40 year old full Campy road bike

Maybe when/if it gets to the 4th generation at $5 (per poster above), as long as it doesn't randomly decide that the rear derailleur belongs in the spokes

The thing that still surprises me about Di2 after a year is shifting the front derailleur under a lot of force - standing while climbing for example. I just hit the button and it works smoothly - no backing off, no need to stop pedaling, and no hesitation by me. It just works!

That would be nice, but the reality is they're building in issues to ensure they're NOT compatable with other systems. Di2 DA is incompatible with Di2 Ultegra eg.

Why is this any different from the current mechanical system? The physics are the same (a piece of metal moves from one place to another) whether the force comes from the muscles in your finger or an electromagnet. Is the latter stronger or faster?

Nice.

But remember ... there is a difference between compatibility on a consumer level and compatibility to save cost on the manufacturer level.

The system trims automatically, and the motor appears to make it shift more smoothly and precisely under load. This isn't too surprising, a FD is just a brute force mechanism. A system that activates it by a more sophisticated method than simply tugging on a cable at least has the potential to improve performance. And in my very limited experience, and the reports of most users, it does.

The force generated by a solenoid can be very powerful. I presume that the forces are multiplied by the leverage built into the derailleur so we are likely dealing with a very powerful little unit -- certainly one I would keep my fingers away from.

A standard derailleur only has the force of the return spring which is comparatively weak. The fact the someone can move the derailleur in and out by hand shows just how weak the spring is. It is fine in normal circumstances, but when the chain is under load, the spring isn't strong enough to exert the sideways force and the derailleur just sits on the chain.

The FD is indeed a brute force mechanism, that's why I can't see how an electromagnet is any improvement over the delicate and sophisticated muscles in my fingers.

Concerning precision, I push that lever, and the FD moves to exactly the correct point for shifting. (1) It is a lot more precise than it needs to be, and (2) I don't see how precision affects shifting under load.

Concerning smoothness, (1) I can do it smoothly, and (2) smoothness doesn't matter.

I could understand an argument that the electronic FD provides more force, is that the case? Maybe more force is needed to move the FD under extreme load.

You don't have any control whatsoever over the movement of the derailleur when shifting from the big ring to the small one. All you do with the shifter on a manual system is release the tension on the spring by clicking the lever.

This is in contrast with the upshift where you use the lever to directly move the derailleur outward.

On the downshift, the derailleur snaps back, dragging the chain, with luck, with it. I suppose you could call the snap a smooth action, but even with the standard spring, it's not gentle.

However, that snap also is one of the reasons why a chain will go further than the inner ring and come off. It's like catapulting off the derailleur plate.

The solenoid has a defined movement, and it doesn't snap because it is not, I gather, spring loaded. That means the shift will be a lot smooth and will place the chain exactly where it's meant to be.

And yes, a mechanism such as used in an electronic FD does create considerable force. As an example, I have used electric secateur for pruning fruit trees (commercially).

When the trigger is pressed, the electric "motor" moves a defined amount then returns to its start position. With the leverage to the cutting blade, I can cut through limbs two inches or more in thickness without any effort from me other than positioning the unit. To cut the same limb with a manual pair of hand secateurs requires quite considerable hand strength.

I saw a Giant "something or other" last year with DA electronic shifting. Price? $11,900!!
For that price my fingers and my Ultegra shifters and derailleurs work just fine.

I used to be one of those people who stubbornly resisted every change and new technology. My '92 Bridgestone RB-1 came with 7 sp indexed bar end shifters which I soon changed to downtube friction and later bar end friction.

That changed somewhere along the way. Friction was a PITA for mountain bike singletrack, so I accepted indexing there. I was a rigid bike purist for a while, but had to admit that front suspension was a big improvement for keeping up on trail rides. Then I raced XC mountain biking for a season, planning to use the team discount to buy a nice steel hardtail. I figured I'd go to disc brakes, but definitely not those complicated hydraulic type. Instead I bought a full suspension Stumpjumper FSR with hydraulic discs and was completely in love.

I remained a purist on the road with my lugged steel bike with friction shifting until a car hit me and destroyed my beautiful bike. I decided that after recovering from cancer and the crash on the bike, I might just be mortal after all, so I'd better start experiencing more things instead of clinging to old standards. So I got a carbon fiber Roubaix with STI and fell in love. I still had a steel road bike with friction shifting which I started riding on dirt roads. I swapped all that gear over to a monstercross frame and made a fixie of the steel road bike. I caught myself last week ranting about the uselessness of disc brakes on road or gravel bikes, so naturally I just ordered a carbon framed cyclocross bike with hydraulic discs.

I have little doubt that my next road bike will have electronic shifting and possibly disc brakes. None of these changes are necessary, but most of them truly enhance the fun of riding bicycles and that is what it's all about. BTW, I still have a rigid steel MTB with friction thumb shifters and a Brooks saddle, a steel fixed gear road bike and a steel monstercross bike with a Brooks saddle. Just because you embrace the new doesn't mean you have to abandon the old and proven.

A truly wonderful post.

Rode last week with a friend with Di2. He said to himself, " better charge the bike tonight or I won't be riding tomorrow". Same ride, my bike computer quit after 3 miles. I forgot to charge it after the previous few day's riding with it. Maybe someone should develop a cycling jersey / fabric with built-in solar receptacles that you plug in to charge the Di2 system and bike computer?

+1 I've now met several people in their 80's still riding daily. Based on that, we have a lot of technology change to endure.

Makes sense, thanks.

I wonder if the ecologically minded will jump on board considering these will put more dangerous substances out there, considering lithium is not something we want laying around. If you ride a bike to take one more car off the road, then I cannot see this being an option for you.

I cannot see me getting too excited about it just yet.

I don't see the sense in electronic shifting, so I won't have it on my bike. But I said the same thing about brifters and now I have brifters on 4 of my bikes. So probably, when the cost drops to where I can afford them or when I want the latest and greatest. I do see the use on Tri bikes where you want to shift from two different positions.

I retrofitted my 2010 Specialized Roubaix Expert with Ultegra Di2. I sold the brifters and derailleurs on Ebay; so, the total upgrade was a reasonable cost. The Di2 never needs adjustment and it was fun and easy to install. I will never buy another mechanical derailleur. My other bicycle has an 8 spd internal gear hub and a gates belt. I also will never buy another internal combustion engine now that I have my Tesla Model S. I guess you can figure that just because I am old doesn't mean I don't embrace change.

I was so impressed with BluesDawg's experience with his beautiful carbon fiber Expert. He set a great example of somebody embracing change after resisting it. I typically don't resist it - I embrace it.

I forgot to mention the Ultegra Di2 front derailleur shifts so fast and easily, that I shift it much more often than the mechanical front derailleur. I could not tell any difference in the Dura Ace vs Ultegra Di2 rear derailleur shifting. I could tell that the Dura Ace front derailleur shifting was faster and smoother than the Ultegra Di2.

Me too, but then, you don't have to pay anywhere near that amount to get a great new bike with Ultegra Di2.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bik...tui2midcompact

Not only no but Hell no.

LC

Well no, you can buy the Micro SD card and download the maps yourself or buy them from Ridewithgps for 25 bucks shipped to your door on a Micro SD card. I did. You go to the Ridewithgps site, scroll down to the bottom, find the store and look for maps.

when I built my Tarmac I thought seriously about Ultegra Di-2. But it still was more than SRAM red and I had the option of getting the Red with Auto yaw. Now the new RED Quark comes with a 11 speed cassette and auto yaw. Too late for me but doesn't mean I would like one. Still looking at the TDF machines I see they have not only electronic shifting but also hydraulic braking. Not the disk brake but a hydraulic rim brake. That for the one mentioning having trouble with his hands when braking. If the price drops, and when doesn't electronics drop in price, I would be interested in electronic shifting and Hydraulic braking. I think our jet fighters are better with fly by wire. Same with jumbo airliners. Many upscale cars are using drive by wire. My trailer has electronic brakes. My computer is connected to a wireless modem. I use blue tooth on my phone and my phone is smarter than I am. So with any luck maybe electronic shifting will drive down the price of Mechanical shifters. And while I can drive a manual and for years I drove a tractor trailer I would switch to DSG or Sequential shifting, like a motorcycle in a hot second. But then it is all on what I could afford. If I can't afford one then I will go for the next best. But to me a bicycle is a tool, and I want the most modern tool I can afford. But for now much of that is on a wish list. That may be just me.

The only way electronic shifting would stay expensive, is if the big manufacturers get together and intentionally keep it expensive. I don't think they will for a simple reason, vendor lock-in. It is possible today, and has been for a long time, to mix cable actuated components, for example you can have SRAM shifters, a Shimano FD and a Campy RD, and Tektro brakes. With electronic shifting, it's easy to eliminate this, by using different connectors so that you can't plug components from different vendors together. In fact different product lines or different generations can be made incompatible with each other. For example, suppose we buy a new bicycle with Di2 on it, 10 years from now the RD fails, so you go to buy a new one, but they no longer make Di2, they make Di4, but the plugs are not compatible, so you need to replace everything even though the other components are still good. Reason number 3, electronics are notoriously cheap to manufacture, and difficult to repair.

I've had the newer version of Dura-Ace Di2 for a few months now and I love it. I have another bike with Campy Record 11-speed, a 3rd bike with mechanical Ultegra, a mountain bike with indexed shifting and an old steel frame bike with down tube shifting. They all have their uses, but the D/A Di2 is my favorite. The Campy 11 is a close 2nd, but definitely in 2nd place. As the saying goes, you don't know what you're missing.

Will be on my next bike if I can afford it. To a person those who I've spoken to who have ridden them have come away impressed.