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Pedaling question

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Old 02-11-14 | 02:36 PM
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Pedaling question

On a road bike, when you're clipped in, do you pull up as well as push?
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Old 02-11-14 | 02:50 PM
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Greg LeMond, who knows something about pedaling, having won the TDF, suggests that, at the bottom of the pedal stroke, round out that stroke by scraping the foot back as if getting rid of dog doo. Some people actively lift the foot for the up stroke. Basically, keep it smooth.
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Old 02-11-14 | 02:51 PM
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Circles. Circles. Circles.
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Old 02-11-14 | 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by berner
Greg LeMond, who knows something about pedaling, having won the TDF, suggests that, at the bottom of the pedal stroke, round out that stroke by scraping the foot back as if getting rid of dog doo. Some people actively lift the foot for the up stroke. Basically, keep it smooth.
That.

Also, a good technique for reason of unloading the extra weight from the up-pedal in order to removal pedal resistance.
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Old 02-11-14 | 03:23 PM
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Pedal in circles.

The problem with poor pedaling technique is that you work against yourself ... essentially applying pressure to both the left and right pedals at the same time. I know that if I focus on trying to apply pressure on the other foot in the upwards direction, I may not be generating much torque (if any) with that foot, but at least I'm not pressing down on it.

Focus on it the next time you're on a climb, and you'll find yourself magically picking up a MPH or so ... with seemingly no additional effort.
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Old 02-11-14 | 07:25 PM
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Practice pedaling with only one leg.
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Old 02-11-14 | 08:26 PM
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Actively pulling up can also provide a quick but short lived burst of extra wattage, but at a high metabolic cost.
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Old 02-11-14 | 09:38 PM
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Good points about pedaling circles and unloading the rising pedal, as well as the bottom-of-stroke backsweep, to give you a little extra push right at the weakest point in the cycle. Since I am your basic klutz, I have to focus on good form -- it does not come naturally for me.
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Old 02-11-14 | 11:53 PM
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Depends on what you're trying to do. Sprinting uphill, yes, like the very devil. Starting a sprint on the flat, depends on the speed of your leadout. IME it's not possible to pull up at a very high cadence. People do pull up when going very hard while seated. One will see it on occasion in TdF videos and the like. But in general, no. One pushes forward at the top, does not normally push down, pulls back at the bottom and then unweights the pedal on the way up. Going harder starts as more pushing down and gradually becomes more of everything and finally the pulling up starts, too.

You can do two things to figure it out. One, put the bike in a very low gear and pedal extremely fast on level ground for a while. When you figure out how to stop bouncing, no matter how fast you pedal, you will have a decent pedal stroke. The other thing is to put the bike in your biggest gear and pedal without moving your upper body. When you figure out how to do that, you will have a strong, decent pedal stroke.
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Old 02-12-14 | 07:03 AM
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Learn to ride rollers. You will learn how to pedal.
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Old 02-12-14 | 07:58 AM
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During the winter I have been focusing on pedal technique and cadence speed at the gym. What I am finding (at this time) is I need to focus on my peddling when I want to pull up on the peddles. It has not yet come naturally to me and at times it seems like it never will. When I focus on pulling up while pushing down my cadence increases even though I am not trying to increase it. When I put most of my effort and thought into pulling up, the foot on the down stroke will naturally follow with little to no effort. This forces me to engage different muscle groups which seems to allow my sour muscles to relax a little and recover. I've tried this technique on different difficulty settings and for the most part, I get the same results. I do however find that when on the hill setting it can tax your metabolics as mentioned on #7 ....but to what extent is unkown to me until I can test these practices in the real world, on my bike, on the hills, this spring.

Even if I gain no extra speed or endurance from this experiment, if I end up improving my peddle stroke along with proper gearing when climbing hills, I will consider it a win.

Hope this helps,
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Old 02-12-14 | 08:08 AM
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Instrumented tests have shown that it's rare for even world class cycle athletes to contribute positive cranking force pulling up on the pedal. What the best ones do is lift most of the weight of their backside leg off the pedal so the frontside leg doesn't have to lift it.

Olympic Silver and Bronze medalist Leonard 'Harvey' Nitz was said to be quite good at this - measuring lowish on downforce relative to other world class cyclists but able to turn it almost all into forward progress.

We of course aspire to be smooth, efficient and fluid, but unless you're training with a coach and competing, I wouldn't over think this.
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Old 02-12-14 | 08:11 AM
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Trainer time helps. Superspins help. Riding on a squeaky seat that betrays your uneven stroke really helps.
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Old 02-12-14 | 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Instrumented tests have shown that it's rare for even world class cycle athletes to contribute positive cranking force pulling up on the pedal. What the best ones do is lift most of the weight of their backside leg off the pedal so the frontside leg doesn't have to lift it.

Olympic Silver and Bronze medalist Leonard 'Harvey' Nitz was said to be quite good at this - measuring lowish on downforce relative to other world class cyclists but able to turn it almost all into forward progress.

We of course aspire to be smooth, efficient and fluid, but unless you're training with a coach and competing, I wouldn't over think this.
For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of clipping in. Not because you can pull (because while you can pull, I almost never do), but because I find it a lot more comfortable, particularly when spinning.

(In my case, I ride a 'bent, so having my feet attached means I don't have to spend any effort keeping my feet out in front of me on my pedals).
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Old 02-12-14 | 09:09 AM
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Good advice from the responders. Once you have absorbed all these different techniques and tips, get on your bike (on or off a trainer) and try them, picking the one that works best for you. Saddle time is the best way to make these techniques a part of your everyday ride routine. A sign over the counter at my LBS reads, "The answer to your riding questions: The more you ride, the better you get and the better you get, the more you ride."
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Old 02-12-14 | 09:38 AM
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Good basic discussion here. I like riding clipless, too. I've found that the more time I spent focusing on technique, the smoother I became overall. I'd like to try rollers some day - I haven't so far and don't like to have extra "gym" equipment around the house that doesn't get used enough (that's my fear).

One thing that seems to help is riding a fixed gear over the winter and early spring. Somehow, mastering a smooth descent at ~130 rpms and upward can teach the muscles how to "round out" the pedaling stroke. Then, getting back on a geared bike seems to be more in synch for me, if that makes sense...
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Old 02-12-14 | 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dickiebob
Practice pedaling with only one leg.
This is good advice. On the trainer do one leg drills and focus on spinning in circles.
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Old 02-12-14 | 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by John_V
Good advice from the responders. Once you have absorbed all these different techniques and tips, get on your bike (on or off a trainer) and try them, picking the one that works best for you. Saddle time is the best way to make these techniques a part of your everyday ride routine. A sign over the counter at my LBS reads, "The answer to your riding questions: The more you ride, the better you get and the better you get, the more you ride."
The more you ride, the less your butt hurts.
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Old 02-12-14 | 10:12 AM
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Yes, sometimes. Most often, you are more lifting your back leg rather than letting it be passive pushed up by the opposing leg. Under harder efforts you can exploit your back leg to pull up and contribute useful power. Here're some measurements using power meter that can measure the direction and force placed on each pedal: https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/page/l...ews/?id=116433
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Old 02-12-14 | 11:20 AM
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Ignore all advice other than recommendations that basically say "ride more". Otherwise, you will just be confused and still have crappy technique.
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Old 02-12-14 | 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Terex
Ignore all advice other than recommendations that basically say "ride more". Otherwise, you will just be confused and still have crappy technique.
This advice works for golf as well.
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Old 02-12-14 | 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by RPK79
This advice works for golf as well.
And tennis, skiing, etc., etc.
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Old 02-12-14 | 01:17 PM
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Not so much Pulling Up, as unweighting the back pedal, leg/foot.
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Old 02-12-14 | 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Not so much Pulling Up, as unweighting the back pedal, leg/foot.
Exactly. You dont have to pull up to realize a benefit. Just unload the up pedal. I do this with clip/straps.
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Old 02-12-14 | 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Instrumented tests have shown that it's rare for even world class cycle athletes to contribute positive cranking force pulling up on the pedal. What the best ones do is lift most of the weight of their backside leg off the pedal so the frontside leg doesn't have to lift it.

Olympic Silver and Bronze medalist Leonard 'Harvey' Nitz was said to be quite good at this - measuring lowish on downforce relative to other world class cyclists but able to turn it almost all into forward progress.

We of course aspire to be smooth, efficient and fluid, but unless you're training with a coach and competing, I wouldn't over think this.
This
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