Right now, I'm torn between a B-17 for $92, or a B-17 Imperial for $114..........................

Is it worth paying an extra $25 for the cutout******************************???? Decisions, decisions, decisions...........

I would ask that you re-read my initial post. I think it explains what insight I was hoping to get.

I did find another thread in which a responder had basically the two bikes that I have. He placed the Imperial on his Roubaix, due to the more aggressive ride, and possibility of more pressure being applied to the perineal area. He left the B-17 Standard on the LHT. I went with that advice.

My concern wasn't so much to do with $$$, as it was with comfort. I will let you know my initial impressions, whatever they are worth. First ride on the Imperial is tomorrow.

I guess that was my point. If you pick the right saddle, it will work in both places. To me, if you're sensitive to taint pressure, then why would get a saddle that has any issue with that at all. That's why I'm riding with the Koobi's. With their full length cut out, there is no perineal pressure no matter what what your ride posture is. That's why it works on my mountain bike, my road bike (racing geometry) and my cross bike. That's what works for me.

FWIW, this the whole issue of numbness for me was a problem so I put myself in the "sensitive" category.

The other side, but major, benefit of this is that I can start with the same basic fit and transfer it to any of my bikes. From there, it's slight tweaks based on the bike geometry. Makes setting up a new or different bike pretty easy.

J.

Rode about 50 miles on the new B-17 Imperial today. Just like the first Brooks I purchased, comfortable right out of the box. I had read somewhere that there may be an issue with the cutout feeling like it pinched. I don't know what that poster was wearing, but I had no such problem. So I'm very happy with this decision. I have a more comfortable saddle on my light bike that will enable me to do some higher mileage rides. And as I age, if the perineal area becomes a concern, I may have that covered also. Hopefully switching back and forth between bikes will not be as big of an issue now. We will see.

At this point,I have 3 bikes and 3 Brooks...a Pro,a Swift, and a B-17.

The five bikes I ride fairly often have five different saddles. I do sometimes swap the Brooks B-17 between a couple of them when I plan to do longer gravel rides on one or the other of them. I am planning to try the new Brooks Cambium C-17 on next bike which will be custom built for long rides on roads ranging from paved to hard packed dirt and gravel to rough dirt roads and trails.

Fifty years ago I raced bicycles. My Olmo and later Schwin Paramont came with Brooks B17s. I was always riding with perineum numbness or pain as did most of my riding companions. I also had problems with ham string pain. When I switched to the much narrower Brooks "Swallow" saddle, the ham string problem went away. However, my perineum numbness/pain persisted. I simply accepted that it was normal and rode with the discomfort.

Fast forward: I am now 72 years old and have re-entered cycling (I have no car). The issues, for me, have not changed, in fact: they have gotten, well -- worse. My prostate is normally and reasonably larger than it used to be (perineum area). And, well, everything hurts more than it used to ;o). However, I no longer accept such discomfort as normal or acceptable.

After considerable te$ting, experience and re$earch, I came to the conclusion that we were doing this saddle thing wrong and that traditional bicycle saddles were, well --- Crap. Why should we deliberately place a hard, small rounded piece of leather (or whatever) under our perineum and then sit on it!?

The answer was obvious: don't make a saddle that places pressure in 'that' place or area. I now have two Adamo "Prologue" saddles, one for each bike I ride. Since mounting the first Prologue, I have had no perineum pain. None. But, then, how could I; there is nothing to press on that area of my crotch. The Prologues have had no negative effect on handling or comfort; I ride without noticing them at all most of the time and that is a very good thing indeed.

I am sure that anyone who suffers with numbness and pain in that area can eliminate said numbness/pain by simply getting rid of the nose of the saddle. There are other nose-less or essentially nose-less saddles and I am going to try the new Cobb JOF fifty five as it is a bit narrower than the Adamo adjacent to my hamstring tendons (I still have some discomfort there after 30 miles or so). Other saddle manufacturers are beginning to offer similar saddles and you might do a bit of looking at what is available.

Joe

I have no idea whether Imperial would be an upgrade. Can't help with that one.

More than one bike? Yes, seven vintage bikes from '72 to '87, covering fine competition machines to bike-boom bikes to a tandem. Same saddle, except for one. I got lucky. I needed a saddle when I was rebuilding one bike and the LBS guy pointed me to a WTB Speed V. I rode it 65 miles that weekend and have been comfortable on it, actually them, ever since. The different bike has a VO Model 6 that I acquired in a trade. It's hard, not broken in, very different from the WTB. I haven't ridden it enough yet but it isn't my favorite. On the other hand, the bike isn't so great anyway so I use it only for shorter trips.

But then, I rode for decades on the orignal leather saddle on my UO-8 and it was comfortable enough.

FWIW, I'm 65, will turn 66 next month.