jyl

I have short legs, long torso, 5'10", 32" bike inseam. So I always have trouble getting enough reach to the bars, if the frame is not too tall for me.

One of my bikes is an old school 1970s race bike. Raleigh Team Pro 753. Marked 59.5 cm, actually 58.5 cm center to center. This is a workable height, albeit for a "french fit" with only a modest amount of exposed seatpost. The reach from saddle to bars was just a little short. That was with a 120 mm stem. So I looked and looked and found a 140 mm stem that met all the aesthetic, lightness, cost, and other requirements. 3ttt, vintage quill, added Ti bolt and alloy expander. Set up with 3ttt Superleggera drop bars, Benotto tape, Campagnolo Record levers, all old school stuff. Took some short rides. Ahhh, finally, room to stretch out! Visually, when I'm in the saddle, hands on the hoods, the bar top "looks" like it is little forward of the front axle. Happy happy.

Today I took a longer ride. 25 miles of hills. Uh oh. My hands were going numb. Seemed to relate to climbing on the hoods while standing. The heel of my palms got numb. Had to shake them out a lot. Not entirely happy happy.

Should I:
1. Wear padded gloves. (Padded bar tape not an option, has to be this Benotto plastic tape. Just because.)
2. Spend $100 and another couple months searching for a 3ttt stem in 130 mm.
3. Move my saddle forward 1 cm.
4. Give it another couple hundred miles to adjust myself, before changing anything.

jyl

Oh, I did also lower the saddle by 1/4" because I'm trying to pedal less toe-down, per carbonfiberboy and others. I figure that moved my saddle forward 1/8", seems unrelated. The bars are about the same reach and drop as the previous Cinelli drops. The brake levers are the same.

philbob57

You know that a primary market for the Benotto tape was people like me who were too stressed financially or too cheap to buy Tressostar, right? Or who couldn't figure out how to tape a bar with Tressostar?

jyl

I considered cloth tape but in white it gets dirty quickly. And it isn't significantly more padded than plastic tape.

Anyway, coq au vin was originally a dish for poor rural French families who had only a tough old rooster to eat, and now it's a classic.

The kicker is, I found old stock Benotto tape in a bin at my LBS for 50 cents a roll, and I'm cheap like an old rooster.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, of course padded gloves, and make sure they have a cutout in the pad for the ulnar nerve. https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post12953035

When you climb standing, don't support your weight on your hands so much. Move your butt back and support yourself with your legs. Hands light. You'll see guys alternately opening their hands when climbing on the hoods to remind themselves - relaxed hands.

ThermionicScott 

I don't know that I'd push the saddle forward any more, assuming your cleat position was already good.

How's your saddle tilt? Pictures would be good.

fastk9dad

How about adjusting the hood position? If your hands are going numb when standing maybe you are putting your wrists at an awkward angle. I prefer my hoods almost level with just the slightest amount of rise, for me this is the best compromise between comfortable hands while sitting and standing.

jyl

Picture of bike



Never noticed the front tire stem was so crooked. Crap.

ThermionicScott 

Love it! Looks fast and classy at the same time.

Since you already own and ride a bunch of C&V bikes, none of these thoughts may be valuable, but:
- Maybe consider tilting the nose of the saddle up one notch. It looks like you'd constantly be pushing backward from the bars if your goal is to be seated on the very back portion of the saddle. (But maybe it needs to be tilted like that to accommodate your saddle-to-bar drop.)
- How much time do you spend in the various hand positions? I wonder if raising the bars in order to spend more time in the drops may help. (That's still going off of very little information, so...)

zonatandem

Agree on moving the hoods/brakes up about a good inch; will make for shorter reach.
Definitely get riding gloves.
Nice looking Raleigh!
Enjoy the ride . . .

jyl

I spend about equal time on the tops, hoods and drops. Tops usually for loafing and climbing in a small gear. Drops (hooks) usually for cruising and go-fast and climbing in a big gear. Hoods for climbing out of the saddle and riding on city streets.

The thing about moving the levers higher is then I have trouble reaching the brakes when in the drops (hooks). I may try rotating the bars up a little bit more. I don't think I'll raise the stem; I actually wish I could get more saddle to bar drop, but unless I can find an affordable and light track (downangled) stem this seems to be close to the limit. I already fitted a fairly deep bar to get the drops (hooks) that much lower.

I took a ride on Sunday with padded gloves. Only 16 miles but 1.5 hours (I was leading the Portland C&V ride). It was comfortable. No hand numbness. Maybe the gloves were all I needed, maybe I'm getting used to the longer reach. Lowering the saddle a bit seemed to help.

I may try fiddling with the saddle as suggested. Thanks for the idea.

Tangential question: a friend loaned me some Campagnolo NR bar end shifters. I want to try them on this bike. I'll just temporarily tape the cable housings to the bars for the trial, but if I keep them, I'd like to have the sleekest possible cable routing. What do you think about running the cable housings under the plastic tape, all the way to the stem? Too much friction, too modern looking?

Clem von Jones

It's pretty low for such a long stem. Imagine yourself on the bike in the ideal aero posture and focus on your shoulder and how it acts as a pivot for your arm. If you keep the angle of your elbow constant, and maintain a constant angle in your lower back, you'll require a longer stem as you pivot your shoulder upward and a shorter stem as you pivot it downward. A 'slammed' stem will need to be substantially shorter than a higher stem to maintain the same lower back angle. To demonstrate this, grab a piece of string about the same length as your arm and hold one end in place about where your shoulder would be over the bike and move the lower end in an arc up and down near the handlebar. The lower the bar is the closer it needs to be, and by using the string you'll get a sense of how much a difference is required.

I would raise that long stem a couple inches or put a shorter stem on. Modern racers slam their stem but by so doing sacrifice use of the drops, and they also use short-reach, short-drop compact bars and ergonomic shifter hoods. You don't have that equipment so I wouldn't attempt to imitate them. Alternately you could get a quill stem threadless 1 1/8" adapter, buy a modern 31.8 stem, FSA Omega compact bars (the best!), and Microshift R7 or R8 ergonomic brifters from aliexpress. Then you'd have a modern cockpit and could emulate the pro aero position.

Carbonfiberboy 

IME the opposite is true. The ratio is about 1cm down, 2cm forward. Sitting in a chair, lean forward and back up again while holding your forearms level like you were holding your hoods in the low position. You don't hold the angle of your elbow constant. That makes no sense. You hold your forearms level. Your hands will naturally move forward a lot as you lean forward.

I agree with going with an adapter. You'll wind up with a much better forged stem and have a wider choice. Won't look right, though. I do fine with a low position using regular reach and drop bars and a slammed 17° stem (level). That depends more on headtube length than anything. A lot of drop to the headtube is usually characteristic of long-legged riders, not so much this OP whose drop is not very large.

I definitely would not move the levers. Looks like you have the bars, etc. all sorted out fine. It's just the numb hands. I used to get numb hands back in the day when I rode a trad bike. It's hard to remember that far back, but IIRC it sorted itself out over time. My core probably got stronger and I supported my torso less with my hands. Has anyone thought to put up the numb hands post? If not, here it is: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...l#post12953035

Note that the common thing with the positions shown in "numb hands" is that with hands on hoods and forearms more-or-less level, the torso and upper arm form ~90° angle. Have someone take your photo in that position on the bike and put a triangle or protractor on it and see.

I sure wouldn't move the saddle forward with numb hands. Getting the saddle far enough back is always an issue with short-legged people. Looks like you already have an offset seatpost on there. More offset and shorter stem, back to 120?

When you stand, you should feel the saddle nose touching your inner upper thigh as you tilt the bike during the pedal stroke. That's where you want to be.