I hope I'm not opening a can of worms with this, since I'm very happy with my fit, comfort-wise. However, this photo seems quite good for illustrating the fit of my bike, that I thought I'd post it and get some comments. Perhaps I could improve efficiency a bit and still be comfortable.

Two things to note are that 1. I need to have the handlebars high, or else I get neck pain, and 2. my legs are pretty short: to have KOPS, my saddle is as far forward as it can go.

This is how I ride 95% of the time:



Thanks,

Al

Can't see how much seatpost you are showing. If it isn't much, this suggestion may not be practicable, but if you need the bars as high as that, I'd say you could do with a bigger frame. A taller headtube would leave less steerer/quill stem exposed, which I'd regard as preferable, and maybe allow you to stretch out a little more without neck issues.

I wouldn't be worried about KOPS if I were you. It's a starting point rather than a rule. I know plenty of riders who prefer to sit as far behind the bottom bracket as possible so they are pushing through the top of the stroke. So if you wanted to try moving the saddle back a little, and down a little to compensate, to see how it felt, I wouldn't discourage you just on the basis of the KOPs idea.

I think it looks fine. You could probably ride a larger frame, but the main advantage would be more saddle to bar room, and if you usually ride in a relatively upright position, I think that is less important. Your companion has a nice fit.

with regard to KOPS I would refer you to https://sheldonbrown.com/kops.html which explains why it is not a valid rule when applied hard and fast. It's a great starting point but your saddle position should also be taking into account your balance as it pertains to pressure on your hands. Picture yourself sitting on a ledge. If you are sitting forward on the ledge and lean over your center of gravity is out there and you may fall, but if you slide your butt back you will have no problem. Your saddle position is like that to some degree. You may wish to move your saddle forward or back to find a position that allows you to not have hand pressure if that's an issue at all.
Those handlebars look pretty high already but you could put on a stem, or adjust your current stem, to raise them up a bit. The headset is probably fixed in place so a change to stem might raise you up a bit and allow more time on the drops. Your drops are also very "wide"....the curve is big so when you are on the drops you are very low. You can easily get a different set of handlebars that have a tighter radius for the drops so when you do go to the drops you will not be nearly as low as you will on your current type of handlebars.

Al,

It's difficult to tell from that photo. But, I suspect that at bottom dead center of the pedal stroke you may have more than optimum knee deflection. If so, you might gain some increased efficiency from raising your saddle. To really do "internet photo fitting" any justice you need to take photos while sitting on a turbo trainer, so you can consistantly replicate camera placement, cranks at 3 and 6 o'clock, etc.

I used to ride in your position, but could never stretch out, this created some back pain. I always felt "scrunched", never able to effectively stretch out. Changed to a longer stem (80 to 100 mm) which helps a lot.

For you, neck pain is an obvious limitation. To gain more efficiency, you would have to get more aero, where the back is at least 45 degrees, or less upright. You appear to be closer to 60 to 70 degrees. Except this may increase neck pain. I wonder if a longer more upright stem or a longer stem with more spacers could help you get aero and allow you to keep your head up.

All the best...

BRAVO... This truly is a blessing... RIDE ON...

You ride that way 95% of the time? 95% of the girls are out front and beat you? sheesh dude, step up!

Al, you look like you could stand to be more stretched out, since your back is bent compared to the woman. Longer top tube or stem with a little more saddle setback? Also your arms look rather straight. What happens if you do a little more elbow bend?

I still give some 'lip service' to KOPS, as it works for some people; but there have been others looking at the issue who feel it's outdated. I personally prefer that the 'plumb line' land just BEHIND the pedal spindle; it's less than 10mm of adjustment in many cases, and my own experience has taught me the effect of as little as 2mm of change can be significant.

I think that is a good assessment. Your posture is not too far from being on a Hybrid. The young lady looks competitive, yet comfortable.

It seems to me a larger frame may not be the only solution, but a different one could be, meaning a newer "Endurance" road frame. Every company offers many models of them. They have a longer head tube, shorter top tube, short reach bars. Giant Defy, Specialized Sectuer, Cannondale Synapse, etc. I am willing to bet a test ride on one may have you changing bikes.
This design puts a rider more upright. With your long torso it is a quick fix to put longer stem on bike to accommodate it. The short leg thing will be fine as the frames use compact design.

Go test ride one. You will be surprised.

Looks like I am seeing some of the same stuff as others. Right off — taking into consideration your neck, and I'm guessing compression between C4-C5 (very common) — you need a longer stem. This in turn may cause you to raise the stem a bit more. (Nitto makes some VERY long Technomics). But perhaps the better solution is an asymmetrical frame — assuming your saddle height and leg extension are optimal. No way I can tell in the pic. I think the goal is to achieve a flat back with the desired inclination that satisfies weight distribution and still allow for the saddle to be adjusted to allow the best ergonomics in the cranks/pedals. That is a lot to ask if there are one or more "issues". In the end, you might be happiest with a custom frame.

That's my two bits. I trust there is more expertise than what I have to offer. But — I have sawed back and forth over some this stuff myself. Fortunately, I can get most of this adjusted on stock frames enough to satisfy me. But ... I am not doing centuries.

I'd bet the OP could fit a longer stem and lower the bars, which would rotate the hips forward and flatten the back. If he's had pain with the same stem length and bars lower on this bike, I can understand why; the 'flat butt' seating makes the spine curve excessively.

However, if you're truly comfy now, you might focus on power building rather than fit as a way to gain more performance.

It looks like the OP is like 5' 9, with a long torso, and that is a 50c bike ?? Way out of whack. One of her old bikes ??
TT is way too short and seat is too low as said before. If you don't use drops then why have them ??
On that bike his knees would darn near be hitting his forearms.

Interesting fit... the girl fit looks perfect, the old guy looks like a bear riding a tricycle.

The problem with the neck is because you have all the weight at the front of the bike, if you get the handlebars upper you will shift weight to the back and obviously the pain will go away.... d u h !

I would use just to start lemond formula for saddle height, then put the saddle 5 cm behind the center of the BB, then lower the stem at the same level than the saddle. That will stretch the old man enough to look like a real rider, probably even the back will start hurting, in that case lower the handlebar 2 or 5 mm. done.

Saddle needs to be level just in case and forget KOPS, that doesnt work with everybody.

Good luck.

Looks like you could raise the seat in 1" increments and see if that helps...Also looks like the frame is a bit small for you...