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Full on Titanium Brompton? When???

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Full on Titanium Brompton? When???

Old 08-07-16, 05:02 PM
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ILoveF
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Full on Titanium Brompton? When???

There has always been talk. Whispers. Maybe a lil wishful day dreaming. But c'mon Brompton. Bring out a full on titanium specimen already.

Bromptons. Made in the England. The land of Charles Darwin. Evolve the m'fooker already

I would pay dearly for it it. $5000 USD even. Just make it and watch the suckers crumble like cookies.

Peace.
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Old 08-07-16, 06:44 PM
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I'll just leave this here:



The Ultimate Folding Bike

(some say it's vapourware but there must be some prototypes out there).
Also - Maybe the firm that did Jur's amazing Swift Ti frame could do a one off?

Jur's amazing Ti Swift
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Old 08-07-16, 06:50 PM
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I know about that one. It is a "one off" and while I applaud the effort, it is not on par with the quality from Brompton. It does prove that it can be done. Just waiting for Brompton to get around to doing it.
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Old 08-07-16, 07:17 PM
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their wait time for a regular steel brompton is already months. not sure if they even have time to introduce a second product here.
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Old 08-08-16, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ILoveF View Post
I would pay dearly for it it. $5000 USD even. Just make it and watch the suckers crumble like cookies.
You would, but very others would, and the company is too small to waste money on fringe demand.

They can't even offer the Alfine as an alternative IGH to the clumsy derailleur + BWR, so people have to shell out $1,800 to get one from Kinetics.
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Old 08-08-16, 07:49 AM
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Brompton has spent a boatload of money on a computer-controlled custom robotic brazing rig, to minimize individual variation even between skilled brazers who were doing it by hand.

Now extrapolate that rig to include back-purging for titanium. The cost would be astronomical. There would have to be a huge demand for the company to even consider that kind of outlay.

Could it be done? Sure. Will it be done? Not likely.

Brompton goes to great length to insure their parts are well engineered and last a lifetime. They have a funky machine to magnetically measure each hinge clamp compared to a known standard; any clamp that looks off in the slightest is rejected, as it might be fine for a decade but then suddenly fail. You don't see the extensive testing they do on the finished product, but it's there.
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Old 08-08-16, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
[I]
They can't even offer the Alfine as an alternative IGH to the clumsy derailleur + BWR, so people have to shell out $1,800 to get one from Kinetics.
If you look at the comparative gear inches for each option on the Kinetic site you might conclude that certainly for the 11 speed it's just not worth it in terms of overall range :-

8 speed : 24in to 74in
11 speed : 24in to 99in

3 speed : 44in to 79in
6 speed : 33in to 99in
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Old 08-08-16, 09:11 AM
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Why wait for someone else to Do It? go to China (they make Titanium, so Does Russia)and will cost less than Aerospace US

and start a Company. There already are Forks and Rear portions in Ti,
Just need to make the Main frame + bar mast .
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Old 08-08-16, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Diode100 View Post
If you look at the comparative gear inches for each option on the Kinetic site you might conclude that certainly for the 11 speed it's just not worth it in terms of overall range :-

8 speed : 24in to 74in
11 speed : 24in to 99in

3 speed : 44in to 79in
6 speed : 33in to 99in
i know, right? this has been pointed out repeatedly, but most just ignore it.
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Old 08-08-16, 10:18 AM
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Some of the individual sections are probably still hand-brazed, but joining the two main triangles is computer controlled:

Brompton has developed a thermographic PLC-controlled autobraze machine to braze the two parts together. It delivers reliably consistent quality on an extremely critical area of the bike. This machine was designed and built in-house as the UK supplier went bust. It took two years and an investment of 160,000 to create, but it delivers the goods and would be next to impossible for a competitor to replicate.
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Old 08-08-16, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ILoveF View Post
I know about that one. It is a "one off" and while I applaud the effort, it is not on par with the quality from Brompton. It does prove that it can be done. Just waiting for Brompton to get around to doing it.
Tamara and Len Rubin are around. I believe that they did make several custom jobs over the years. They've always talked about getting the tooling to do this on a bigger/cheaper scale.

If you really want one, you can find them on Facebook among other place. Plop down $5000 and see what they can do for you.
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Old 08-08-16, 02:21 PM
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Brompton already, as far as I know, sources the titanium fork and rear triangle from a third party. From Russia? China? Who knows.

So it won't be much of a stretch to say hey, why don't you guys have a go at the main frame as well.

Like I said, I don't mind paying a premium for a full on titanium Brompton as long as it is done right and doesn't look like a Frankenstein conjured up in someone's garage.

Last edited by ILoveF; 08-08-16 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 08-08-16, 02:22 PM
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Sometimes it's not about the overall gear inches but the STEPS in between. Would you rather have 6 speed or 11 speeds to play with? Would you rather have two fiddle faddle knobs to flick or just ONE knob to switch between gears? Would you have a system that looks like it was hobbled doddled up by hobbits or one elegant IGH?
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Old 08-08-16, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Why wait for someone else to Do It? go to China (they make Titanium, so Does Russia)and will cost less than Aerospace US

and start a Company. There already are Forks and Rear portions in Ti,
Just need to make the Main frame + bar mast .
And the result will be like this one...

12921177_10153991937370535_125890856_n.jpg

And how about full carbon frame (not the Chedech version) from South Korea

13895089_1261455143899203_455969220991128063_n.jpg
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Old 08-08-16, 02:41 PM
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Nice! I'll take a carbon Brompton thank you. The Crompton? Crompton!
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Old 08-08-16, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ILoveF View Post
Sometimes it's not about the overall gear inches but the STEPS in between. Would you rather have 6 speed or 11 speeds to play with? Would you rather have two fiddle faddle knobs to flick or just ONE knob to switch between gears? Would you have a system that looks like it was hobbled doddled up by hobbits or one elegant IGH?
I have 11 speeds on a Jetstream and I'd have to confess that there are gears at both extremes of the range that I've yet to find an occasion to use. How much are you prepared to pay for each extra speed ?

An elegant IGH yes, but you'd still need the chain tensioner.
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Old 08-09-16, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ILoveF View Post
Brompton already, as far as I know, sources the titanium fork and rear triangle from a third party. From Russia? China? Who knows.
Taiwan, as far as I know. I'm trying to set up production of titanium rear frames and forks with standard hub spacing for Bromptons in the next month or two with an aerospace company here in Russia. They were approached by Brompton earlier about the components, but ended up losing to Taiwan. Or China. I doubt that it's Mainland though, QA and legal would be a nightmare to enforce, given Brompton's attitude towards the chinese market in general.

As far as full on titanium goes, it'll be crazy expensive to manufacture anywhere in the UK. And making it elsewhere would go against their mission/marketing agenda/etc. And if I make one in Russia by myself and try to sell it in the EU or US, I'll be a felon, pretty much.
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Old 08-09-16, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vodwood View Post
Taiwan, as far as I know. I'm trying to set up production of titanium rear frames and forks with standard hub spacing for Bromptons in the next month or two with an aerospace company here in Russia. They were approached by Brompton earlier about the components, but ended up losing to Taiwan. Or China. I doubt that it's Mainland though, QA and legal would be a nightmare to enforce, given Brompton's attitude towards the chinese market in general.

As far as full on titanium goes, it'll be crazy expensive to manufacture anywhere in the UK. And making it elsewhere would go against their mission/marketing agenda/etc. And if I make one in Russia by myself and try to sell it in the EU or US, I'll be a felon, pretty much.
alter the design slightly and call them upgrade parts and you should be fine. also, i'm curious, what is brompton's attitude towards the chinese market?
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Old 08-09-16, 12:54 PM
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maybe a felon, but a rich one ...
not that would be ok either...


but I don't know about this, the patents might be long gone by now. And if you make it 130 mm wide in the back and with regular 406 wheels find an elegant way to keep those schwinging cables neat, use regular parts ... well ?
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Old 08-09-16, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
alter the design slightly and call them upgrade parts and you should be fine.
Yeah, looks like I'm going to be fine with 135/100 OLD's and Alfine/Rohloff/whatever compliant design. There are aftermarket steel rear triangles out there that fit regular internal geared hubs (Kinetics is one). No titanium though - might be on to something here.

Chinese market-wise, I think there were a couple of interviews with Butler-Adams regarding the issue. From the looks of it, they are a bit scared to mass sell in China. Baby steps. That's why they don't sell through distributors in the Mainland, as far as I know. Couple of shops managed by Brompton directly (BJ, Shanghai). But I could be mistaken.
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Old 08-09-16, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ThorUSA View Post
maybe a felon, but a rich one ...
not that would be ok either...

but I don't know about this, the patents might be long gone by now. And if you make it 130 mm wide in the back and with regular 406 wheels find an elegant way to keep those schwinging cables neat, use regular parts ... well ?
Or end up like these fellows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neobike

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Old 08-09-16, 05:53 PM
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Brompton will fight to the death literal copycats of their design. Their very survival depends on it. Because frankly, labor is much cheaper in China/Taiwan/other Asian countries and these countries are not afraid to "embrace and innovate" good designs.

And let's not get into an argument that these other countries do shoddy, poor quality work. They may on some products. But on others, they make the best quality the world over.
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