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Old 09-27-17, 03:56 AM   #101
Bonzo Banana
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I'm unsure how recalls work in other countries but in the UK I think for many recalls it doesn't matter if you are the original purchaser. Is there any chance the frame may be one of those recalled and will get a replacement frame whatever the state of the hinge?
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Old 09-27-17, 05:17 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
I'm unsure how recalls work in other countries but in the UK I think for many recalls it doesn't matter if you are the original purchaser. Is there any chance the frame may be one of those recalled and will get a replacement frame whatever the state of the hinge?
It's worth a try. Start here: https://www.ternbicycles.com/frame-replacement-notice
Steve
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Old 09-27-17, 05:28 AM   #103
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It's worth a try. Start here: https://www.ternbicycles.com/frame-replacement-notice
Steve
No mention of being limited to the original purchaser and don't see how a safety recall could be so definitely worth the OP checking whatever the state of the hinge bolt. Surely Tern couldn't argue that because their hinge bolt is also rubbish we aren't going to replace your dangerously weak frame. In fact if I was a manufacturer with this scenario I want to keep the owner happy and quiet. Especially with the history of that bike and the fact it caused a near fatality from the sounds of it. Maybe the weakness of the welding and hinge bolt failure are related somehow or maybe not.
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Old 09-27-17, 10:48 AM   #104
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Surely Tern couldn't argue that because their hinge bolt is also rubbish we aren't going to replace your dangerously weak frame.
The hinge bolt isn't rubbish; mine never gave trouble in the 4,000 miles I had on the original frame. In hindsight, the bolt design included a stress riser, but my feeling is that in some frames the upper and lower bolts weren't perfectly coaxial, which led to their eventual failure. There were apparently not enough of the bolt failures to warrant a recall. Of course, the current design doesn't have that weakness.

What I was suggesting was that if the frame in question was recalled for the weld problem, a new frame would likely be provided. The hinge bolt problem on its own would be a warranty issue and wouldn't apply to a re-sold bike, unfortunately.

The frame weld problem and the bolt problem were probably independent; who knows? If the latch assembly was welded to the frame after the bolt holes were bored, there might have been thermal distortion. I'm not privy to the details of manufacture. The hinge problems have been a real black eye for Tern, and hopefully these eventually will be a distant memory. I have confidence that their products' reputation will get back to where is should have been all along.
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Old 09-27-17, 11:37 AM   #105
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I ignored this thread for the longest time, because I understood the major issue was Tern's weld failures.

Are you all telling me this bolt issue causes frame failures too??? Unbelievable. Where is Mark Bickerton when you need him?

@sweeks so there are documented failures of the bolts ( which causes the frame to fail ), and you claim there is a design flaw. How many failures are required to justify a recall? Do you understand more of these will fail over time? It's just a matter of time.

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Old 09-27-17, 04:09 PM   #106
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Yan,

I doubt either Dahon or Tern would have wasted money on expensive lawyers persuing frivolous claims.

Mark
You are so naive to think that litigation is always premised on the validity of the claim. In fact, when the tactic is to bleed one's opponent dry, an opponent who has less financial werewithall at its disposal, the validity of the claim is besides the point. Your naivety is, of course, transparently self-interested.
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Old 09-27-17, 08:31 PM   #107
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Are you all telling me this bolt issue causes frame failures too???
I did not say that. But since the bolts hold the two halves of the frame together, failure of both of them would cause trouble. I only know what I have read on the Tern Forum, where several of these have been reported. What I have read leads me to think these are two probably unrelated occurrences which happen to affect the same region of the frame.

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...so there are documented failures of the bolts ( which causes the frame to fail ), and you claim there is a design flaw.
There is one on this thread, and others are on the Tern Forum. I called it a design flaw in hindsight... pretty easy to do from an arm chair, though I am not a designer.

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How many failures are required to justify a recall?
I don't know. Ask the CPSC. To my best knowledge, the Tern recalls were voluntary, as opposed to mandatory. I am not aware of the decision-making process that was followed. Tern's site stated the recall was based on "an abundance of caution". I'm not in a position to second-guess that.


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Do you understand more of these will fail over time? It's just a matter of time.
I don't understand any such thing. But I think a certain amount of vigilance is reasonable. Failure of one bolt would cause the frame latch to close differently. Detection of this before the second bolt broke would prevent the frame from coming apart. I'm not trying to blame the victim here, but there are many things that break on bikes which, if detected early, might cause less trouble. I have two older Dahons which developed frame cracks. Re-welding in one case and drilling stress-relief holes in the other prevented them from failure. A crank arm developed a crack; the "soft" feeling as the crank flexed led me to find it and replace the part. Wheel rims began to "thump"... brake track wear was causing the rim to crack. Fixed by replacing the rim. You get the idea.

Unlike the frame weld failures, which were difficult to detect in advance, the majority of the bolt breaks that were reported were of a single bolt.
Fortunately, both problems in the frame joint area have been corrected.
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Old 09-28-17, 08:43 AM   #108
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Corrected for the newer models perhaps but not for the many already being used by thousands of people around the world. Bikes do last a long time.

Since in my case it is the threaded part that broke thus dislodging the structural part of the bolt out of its place - the threaded part only secures the structural part in place, I've decided to put the broken off part back in and securing it in some other way. Right now I'm using masking tape and wrapped it around both top and bottom part but for a more permanent solution I think I would just use putty or fibreglass resin to keep the bolts permanently in place even though the two bolts are no longer connected to their respecting threaded parts.

I do like the Tern C7 although it is an entry level folding bike. I would love to ride the Tern Verge with the new frame and all but maybe in many years down the road once I'm done with the university.

I've been doing a bit of research and apparently my Tern C7 with the broken frame bolts (top and bottom) is the Gen 2 of the Tern C7. There is one on sale on eBay which is a Gen 1 and it has a different frame fold & weld mechanism.

i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Fi4AAOSw1HxZw3RC/s-l1600.jpg (sorry couldn't put URL in until 10 posts)

Would anyone know if this Gen 1 version above makes use of two frame hinge bolts or one straight through bolt? It is above my budget (150) but if it is more reliable than the Gen 2, I may decide to skip on a few meals and get this one until I'm done? Advice would be appreciated
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Old 09-28-17, 10:48 AM   #109
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AFAIK it's the later generation of Tern frames that use a single hinge bolt, the twin bolts were the cause of early failures hence the change to one bolt.
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Old 09-28-17, 10:56 AM   #110
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AFAIK it's the later generation of Tern frames that use a single hinge bolt, the twin bolts were the cause of early failures hence the change to one bolt.
How many documented frame failures stemmed from this problem?

If Mark Bickerton was actually trying to help customers he would be here responding. Otherwise his presence is a marketing gimmick. Let's see what happens....Mark are you going to help this customer? He is clearly in need.

Thanks,
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Old 09-28-17, 10:58 AM   #111
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Since in my case it is the threaded part that broke thus dislodging the structural part of the bolt out of its place - the threaded part only secures the structural part in place, I've decided to put the broken off part back in and securing it in some other way. Right now I'm using masking tape and wrapped it around both top and bottom part but for a more permanent solution I think I would just use putty or fibreglass resin to keep the bolts permanently in place even though the two bolts are no longer connected to their respecting threaded parts.
I don't quite understand what you're saying in the above. However I hope you are not riding the bike with masking tape and resin fixes.

Faceplant!
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Old 09-28-17, 12:22 PM   #112
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I don't quite understand what you're saying in the above. However I hope you are not riding the bike with masking tape and resin fixes.

Faceplant!
I think you've got it exactly. Yikes!
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Old 09-28-17, 04:41 PM   #113
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Corrected for the newer models perhaps but not for the many already being used by thousands of people around the world. Bikes do last a long time.

Since in my case it is the threaded part that broke thus dislodging the structural part of the bolt out of its place - the threaded part only secures the structural part in place, I've decided to put the broken off part back in and securing it in some other way. Right now I'm using masking tape and wrapped it around both top and bottom part but for a more permanent solution I think I would just use putty or fibreglass resin to keep the bolts permanently in place even though the two bolts are no longer connected to their respecting threaded parts.

I do like the Tern C7 although it is an entry level folding bike. I would love to ride the Tern Verge with the new frame and all but maybe in many years down the road once I'm done with the university.

I've been doing a bit of research and apparently my Tern C7 with the broken frame bolts (top and bottom) is the Gen 2 of the Tern C7. There is one on sale on eBay which is a Gen 1 and it has a different frame fold & weld mechanism.

i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Fi4AAOSw1HxZw3RC/s-l1600.jpg (sorry couldn't put URL in until 10 posts)

Would anyone know if this Gen 1 version above makes use of two frame hinge bolts or one straight through bolt? It is above my budget (150) but if it is more reliable than the Gen 2, I may decide to skip on a few meals and get this one until I'm done? Advice would be appreciated
Ok, I hadn't planned on getting involved, but you've basically left ALL OF US with NO CHOICE! Only a FOOL would ride a damaged. jerry-rigged bike like you are. Are you a FOOL? Do you not value your life? The bike, the way you have it, is structurally unsound. No way should you use tape, fiberglass, putty, or any kind of resin to hold in the bolts. I don't care how little money you have,...you should at LEAST have enough intelligence and common sense to know not to do something that's so ridiculous.
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Old 09-30-17, 08:19 AM   #114
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I didn't expect this forum to be so hostile. I'm out of here.

I only came to look for tips on how to get the bike fixed. I got back no positive comment at all. I suppose it is my fault to expect any kind of decency in this forum.

It seems everybody is using this as an opportunity to launch a vicious tirade against the brand and/or Mark Bickerton for no good reason - but noone really pays attention to specific problem and or its solution(s). Everyone seems to take up the easy way out by saying the only solution is discard and replace.

It must be easy for you to tell people to "stop riding it" when to you such a bike can be disposed of and replaced at the snap of your fingers. Or maybe you all could prove you're seriously concerned by having me start a GoFundMe account so that I could replace it with these alternatives?

(99) ebay.co.uk/itm/20-FOLDING-BIKE-BICYCLE-WHITE-ALLOY-20-WHEEL-/132289002818

(108) ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Unisex-Folding-Bike-Bicycle-Available-in-Black-And-White-/182370354162

(120) ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Gears-Brand-New-Unisex-Folding-Bike-Bicycle-Black-and-White-Adult-Bike-20-/253109146996

But of course it won't happen. Things are always easier said than done.

Bye all, and may the peace be with you.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:41 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
I'm unsure how recalls work in other countries but in the UK I think for many recalls it doesn't matter if you are the original purchaser. Is there any chance the frame may be one of those recalled and will get a replacement frame whatever the state of the hinge?
masch,

Before you leave this forum for good, check the serial number of your bike. If it matches the recall list, you get a new frame. Problem solved.

p/s - is he required to provide receipt, proof of purchase etc?
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Old 09-30-17, 10:57 AM   #116
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I didn't expect this forum to be so hostile. I'm out of here.

I only came to look for tips on how to get the bike fixed. I got back no positive comment at all. I suppose it is my fault to expect any kind of decency in this forum.

It seems everybody is using this as an opportunity to launch a vicious tirade against the brand and/or Mark Bickerton for no good reason - but noone really pays attention to specific problem and or its solution(s). Everyone seems to take up the easy way out by saying the only solution is discard and replace.

It must be easy for you to tell people to "stop riding it" when to you such a bike can be disposed of and replaced at the snap of your fingers. Or maybe you all could prove you're seriously concerned by having me start a GoFundMe account so that I could replace it with these alternatives?

(99) ebay.co.uk/itm/20-FOLDING-BIKE-BICYCLE-WHITE-ALLOY-20-WHEEL-/132289002818

(108) ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Unisex-Folding-Bike-Bicycle-Available-in-Black-And-White-/182370354162

(120) ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Gears-Brand-New-Unisex-Folding-Bike-Bicycle-Black-and-White-Adult-Bike-20-/253109146996

But of course it won't happen. Things are always easier said than done.

Bye all, and may the peace be with you.
I didn't say to dispose of the bike and get a new one. I said to stop riding it in a jerry-rigged condition. This means you're life is in danger. Get it fixed, NOT ride a possible death bike. You, apparently, place money over the value of life. FIX THE BIKE PROPERLY, OR DON'T RIDE IT AT ALL!!! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!!

I own a Tern folder, and this apparently must give me the right to speak freely. The animosity people here have towards Tern, and Mark Bickerton, stems from the way Tern HID and LIED to people about the whole "frame-failure" debacle. Their forums, when it occurred, where locked down and CENSORED. Victims of the frame failures were/are (STILL) BLAMED, the same way a crime victim is told "well, you'd be OK if you didn't dress that way", or "you'd still have your wallet/phone/watch/ring/etc if you'd have hidden them better".

Tern has a long way to go before quite a few of us have respect for them as a company/brand. Nothing a rep can say will currently change that. And considering how Tern STILL blames a frame failure on the customers failure to properly service a hinge (which is false, as it's actually a weld failure/shoddy-crappy welding), we're probably NOT going to go easy on them.
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Old 09-30-17, 11:17 AM   #117
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This rider needs help, he did not come here for the negativity. I apologize for my comments.

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 09-30-17, 12:01 PM   #118
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This rider needs help, he did not come here for the negativity. I apologize for my comments.

Thanks,
Yan
I'm only coming off the way I am because it's dangerous, and possibly FATAL, to ride a bike held together with duct tape. And suggesting fixing it with putty, or by any other self designed means, is unacceptable. The person needs to stop riding it IMMEDIATELY, and check to see if there's a recall. If not, see if Tern will fix it. And, if he/she so chooses to do so, FIX IT PROPERLY! Riding it in it's current condition, and talking about not having money for a new bike is ridiculous. DON'T RIDE IT!!! IT'S DANGEROUS!!! WALK!!!

Come to NYC!!! I'll GIVE YOU A DANG BIKE!!!
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Old 10-02-17, 05:24 AM   #119
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Thanks for your concern.

I have sold my smartphone.

Can I get your expert opinions - Is this a good bike?
ebay.co.uk/itm/ECOSMO-20-Brand-New-Folding-City-Bicycle-Bike-6SP-20F01BL-/192260846362

I'm looking for a bike that I could use for daily commute for the next 2-3 years.

Thanks
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Old 10-02-17, 06:31 AM   #120
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Wohoooo!! Welcome back masch!!

Did you check the serial number thingy?
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Old 10-02-17, 06:53 AM   #121
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Well even though I thought I left, my gmail still kept giving me notifications that someone on this forum quoted me and I read the entire post there. I've been so depressed that I tried to stay away from this forum if not for the email subscription thing.

Thanks for the welcome though. I may have missed this, but what serial number thing? The model is not due for recall (I've checked it before coming on these forums) if that's what you meant. Only the more advanced models had the welding problem that lead to the recall of their frames. And yes of course I have contacted Tern and pretty much exhausted most official channels - my bike is purchased used anyway. When a forummer posted a way to take the old threaded part of the bolt out that's when I registered on this forum. If it's true it would have cost ~20 euros for the drill bits & guide then I could afford that and replace with the new bolts I've ordered from Taiwan. Still, this would only address the symptom (broken bolt) and not its cause.

I no longer have time to do this fix as my PhD Thesis is due in a couple of months. I have been riding it with the bolts held in place with masking tape but am looking to replace the bike with something else, do let me know if the ECOSMO bike above is a fair bike to purchase? If possible I'd like to order it this week (today if I can).
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Old 10-02-17, 07:13 AM   #122
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Thanks for your concern.

I have sold my smartphone.

Can I get your expert opinions - Is this a good bike?
ebay.co.uk/itm/ECOSMO-20-Brand-New-Folding-City-Bicycle-Bike-6SP-20F01BL-/192260846362

I'm looking for a bike that I could use for daily commute for the next 2-3 years.

Thanks
If your in the UK the 2 best folding bike bargains currently I know of are these;

Alloy Folding bike,Hi Spec,20 Inch wheel

https://www.muddyfox.com/muddyfox-ev...ng-bike-938023

Either I'm sure will serve you well. Both feature good quality components and are lightweight. The Evolve 200 benefits from a Shimano Nexus 7 drivetrain which is a great all weather riding solution.

You can spend less and get a servicable bike but the small increase in price is worth paying for the huge improvement in functionality. You've already shown a bike at 160 so 60 to 70 more is not a huge gulf considering these bikes have components that will likely last many more years and require less frequent maintenance. To get a similar Dahon bike to the Evolve 200 you'd have to pay about 3x as much and it wouldn't necessarily be any better, its actual worse in some areas. For the Greenway bike you'd probably have to pay at least double from Dahon or Tern for a similar spec. Both are real bargains for the money and likely to be sold out soon.
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Old 10-02-17, 07:22 AM   #123
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masch,

Its just a broken bike. No need to be depressed about that. There are bigger things like cancer, wars and things like hurricanes and earthquakes where you loose everything! So cheer up.

While I was in college, I walked. At the end of it though, I bought a used road bike. So do you actually need a folder? If you just need transport, a used road bike would be cheaper and safer (coz no hinge). If you insist on a folder its better to pay a bit more because the hinge makes or breaks the bike.

Finally, you should not ride the bike with taped up hinge. It is unsafe. Could end up .

Last edited by dahoneezz; 10-02-17 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Crap! Typo!
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Old 10-02-17, 08:47 AM   #124
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When a forummer...If it's true it would have cost ~ 20 euros for the drill bits & guide...
Hi masch!

I have no problem to be named directly, you can use Chris as well as Blackstrida_A_, and yes, I wrote that.
This is true tool cost here in Austria - again, where are you located?
And you will need extra tools and some skills - I'd suggest not to try this operation without technical experience!

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Still, this would only address the symptom (broken bolt) and not its cause.
I do not think so.
Why?
Because here ~ 15 bikes were fixed this way - and just one came again.

Btw - I've met Mr. Bickerton personally at the Eurobike.
At this chance I've showed him above tools, including broken bolt and frame data of an actual repaired case.
Well...he did definitely NOT advice to stop that way of repairs.
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Old 10-02-17, 09:40 AM   #125
Blackstrida_A_
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Sorry, I didn't notice that you can't see prices at the Austrian page linked above once you're not logged in, my fault

From today they are:
Extractor rod 7,90
Extractor nut 4,82
HSS-Tin drill bit 2,57
In sum 15,29
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