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[Brompton] Alternative derailleur shifters

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[Brompton] Alternative derailleur shifters

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Old 01-18-18, 03:39 AM
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Winfried
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[Brompton] Alternative derailleur shifters

Hello,

Since the handlebar on my six-speed Brompton is a bit busy…



… I'm thinking of replacing the original derailleur shifter with either of those found on eBay:

Has someone tried any of those ?

Thank you.
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Old 01-18-18, 04:40 AM
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These seem all to be lock-out shifters for suspension forks. Many if not most of those kind of shifters work on the brompton for use with the derailleur. Traditionally you will have the issue that the clamping of the pull with the Brompton derailleur is within the shifter (aka at the front instead of on the back as normal), rising the need for some fiddleling when using alternative ones.

However: With the new Brompton-shifters of 2017 they invented a new dogleg as well, replacing the old one. It is cheap and now the clamping is done at the rear end. Therefor I'd recommend it when using alternative shifters, makes life easier. I've gone through that and it works flawlessly.
In regards of the shifters I am using exactly the sunrace tumb-shifter that you already have on your handlebars (but obviously for something other than the derailleur?). Possibly you could also just switch to the Brompton 2017-shifters for the derailleur - they sit below the handlebars and are bolted to the brake-levers (therefor a new brake-lever is needed as well). Works with older handlebars, too, but space is very bit tight, so really depending from your grips etc.
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Old 01-18-18, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
With the new Brompton-shifters of 2017 they invented a new dogleg as well, replacing the old one. It is cheap and now the clamping is done at the rear end. Therefor I'd recommend it when using alternative shifters, makes life easier. I've gone through that and it works flawlessly.
Great idea. I forgot about the new shifters. I'll stop at a Brompton store to check it out.

Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
In regards of the shifters I am using exactly the sunrace tumb-shifter that you already have on your handlebars (but obviously for something other than the derailleur?).
It's for the double chainring I installed.

Thx!

---
Edit: Apparently, the new shifters aren't compatible with existing handlebars:

"There is, however, no way of fitting these upgrades onto the previous shape bars."
http://www.velocycles.com.au/2017-br...view-2-months/
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Old 01-18-18, 09:58 AM
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You have to replace the stem and handlebars, which probably isn't worth the money, though this guy thinks otherwise :My Orange Brompton: The new integrated brake/gear/derailleur levers
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Old 01-18-18, 10:41 AM
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I ordered a lightweight DT Swiss one this week.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DT-Swiss-re...4AAOSwTuJYqpPp
Might take a month or 2 to show up so can't give any feedback yet.
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Old 01-18-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
You have to replace the stem and handlebars, which probably isn't worth the money, though this guy thinks otherwise
Stopped at a Brompton dealership: The 2017 derailleur + brake combo is compatible with my P handlebar so won't need to change this, but the operation would still cost €80 in parts.

I'll try the Suntour alternative and see how it goes.
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Old 01-18-18, 10:52 AM
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how replacing one shifter with another is going to clean up your handlebar.
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Old 01-18-18, 11:04 AM
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some one showed adapting a lever for an MTB fork lockout to shift the A/B 2 Speed.. on the internet .. its quite small..

(My 2 speed is in the crank, gearbox.. + BSR..)
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Old 01-18-18, 11:12 AM
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The problem is not cleaning it up: For lack of space, I had to file down the derailleur thumb shifter. It still works, but it's harder to use because of the shorter lever effect.

The 2017 shifter and the Suntour are smaller.
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Old 01-18-18, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Stopped at a Brompton dealership: The 2017 derailleur + brake combo is compatible with my P handlebar so won't need to change this, but the operation would still cost €80 in parts.
Yup. There is absolutely no issue when using the new shifters with S or P bars. There is kind of an issue when using them with the old M bars but this

There is, however, no way of fitting these upgrades onto the previous shape bars. So if you want them, it’s a new bike (or, at least, new stem and bars, as well as the shifter/levers/grips etc, once they become available as individual components).
2017 Brompton review - 2 months on - Velo Cycles Melbourne

is still total bs - I really love these kind of statements from people that have obviously no clue what they are talking about and confuse other people out of plain ignorance...

Too bad that this even seems to be a Brompton dealer - obviously one that cannot be recommended at all as he does neither seem to know about the existence of the S and P models nor has had a competent look at the old and new H- and M-models.

For one you do not need to install the new Brompton Grips when switching to the new shifter(s) (and indeed this combination would not fit on the M-bars). Second you CAN use the new shifter with the old M-bars the issue is that it is a tight fit and you might end up with less space for the grips than before. So only recommended for those with smaller hands (or at least average ones).

You CAN use the new bars on the old stems - you'll end up with a slightly lower height overall (if you do not compensate this via a riser like the aber-hallo) but have no issues fitting the new levers AND the new grips (if you want them) or Ergon grips, even if you have bigger hands.

I.e. I mounted the new 2017-bars to an pre-2017 H-stem to get a height between M and H (more or less similar than P but better looking ) - works totally flawlessly and the height is exactly what I intended.

Indeed the new parts are not cheap and costs sum up. I use the 2017-shifter for the derailleur on one of my bromptons to get rid of the original bell and gain a cleaner look - using the spurcycle-bell anyway. Left the right hand lever with the 2013 one - looks the same and made the upgrade less expensive. Bought the parts during a visit in the uk, therefor in the end it was ok pricewise.

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Old 01-18-18, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
some one showed adapting a lever for an MTB fork lockout to shift the A/B 2 Speed.. on the internet .. its quite small..

(My 2 speed is in the crank, gearbox.. + BSR..)
Did you bother to take a look at the shifters that Winfried linked to in his initial posting or to read what I wrote about lockout shifters in the followup? Obviously not...
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Old 01-18-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
You have to replace the stem and handlebars,
This is as wrong as possible.
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Old 01-18-18, 02:54 PM
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Quoting from two sources. OP originally said the same. Personally, I wouldn’t bother. Am going for wider handlebars plus riser myself. Already added the extra long seat stem. Hopefully the bike will equal the Neo for rider comfort after.
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Old 01-18-18, 03:04 PM
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Of course you can use the new shifters on old M bars with even less room for an already short grip area, but forget it. I have small hands and making the old grips shorter would suck.
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Old 01-18-18, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Of course you can use the new shifters on old M bars with even less room for an already short grip area, but forget it. I have small hands and making the old grips shorter would suck.
Simple question: Did you try it out?
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Old 01-18-18, 03:25 PM
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Sun race makes a 3 speed thumb shifter, S-A brand, the 2 speed does not have to click.. its either or..

Microshift is another of their brands.. P bar has a lot of additional space...

.... maybe even bar end shifters. in the open ends facing each other .. S-A sells bar end shifters in 3 speed.. too..





....

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Old 01-18-18, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
Stopped at a Brompton dealership: The 2017 derailleur + brake combo is compatible with my P handlebar so won't need to change this, but the operation would still cost €80 in parts.

Btw, when importing from Britain:

- 2017 left brake lever + derailleur shifter 25 pounds

- 2017 dogleg 5.75 pounds

- 2017 derailleur cable complete for P-model 10 pounds

complete: 40 pounds (=~45 €).

The gear cable is even not really necessary - would be sufficient to replace the inner part with a generic one for less money. The original part is however easier to fit as you do not need to search for a fitting cable.

Just saying.
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Old 01-18-18, 05:36 PM
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I did think about ordering from the UK but… it was the opportunity to give the Suntour shifter a try :-)

Since it's actually a shifter for suspension forks, I know it might not last as long as an actual derailleur shifter, but I'll get to experiment.
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Old 01-18-18, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
Simple question: Did you try it out?
Simple answer: I just explained I have small hands and have used the M bar with the stock shorty grips. There's no way I would put up with them being even shorter.
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Old 01-19-18, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Simple answer: I just explained I have small hands and have used the M bar with the stock shorty grips. There's no way I would put up with them being even shorter.
So you did not try it. But once more a strong opinion is worth more than evidence, seems to be a trend... You cannot mount the NEW 2017 grips together with the 2017 shifters on the old M-bar. And possibly not with the old shifters as well. Because the new grips are wider than the old ones. As the flat area on the new bars got a little wider (by ~1cm or so) the new ones won't fit. The old grips should probably still be possible. The old grip area served a lot of people well enough, judging from the fact that more than 500.000 Bromptons have been built and sold that way over the years. I would assume that these customers were not exclusively people with very tiny hands....

What will be uncomfy is new shifters, old bars, Ergon grips with bar-ends and stuff like that. The original full sized Ergon GP 1 grips w/o bar ends will possibly not fit as well (as they are wider and clamped at the outside), other grips will. Therefore I would recommend to try it out instead of claiming to know something that you don't know. And if you are not interested in the new shifters there is not even need to do that.
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Old 01-19-18, 01:04 AM
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So negative! Of those 500,000 sold, I wander what percentage changed grips? The older standard Brompton ones were abysmal.
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Old 01-19-18, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
So you did not try it. But once more a strong opinion is worth more than evidence, seems to be a trend... You cannot mount the NEW 2017 grips together with the 2017 shifters on the old M-bar. And possibly not with the old shifters as well. Because the new grips are wider than the old ones. As the flat area on the new bars got a little wider (by ~1cm or so) the new ones won't fit. The old grips should probably still be possible. The old grip area served a lot of people well enough, judging from the fact that more than 500.000 Bromptons have been built and sold that way over the years. I would assume that these customers were not exclusively people with very tiny hands....

What will be uncomfy is new shifters, old bars, Ergon grips with bar-ends and stuff like that. The original full sized Ergon GP 1 grips w/o bar ends will possibly not fit as well (as they are wider and clamped at the outside), other grips will. Therefore I would recommend to try it out instead of claiming to know something that you don't know. And if you are not interested in the new shifters there is not even need to do that.
I suggest you take a jump. I have no idea why you decided to enter this thread to start chewing people out, but it's annoying and weird. I stand by my assessment, Mr. Expert who also hasn't tried the new shifters on old bars: Shortening the old grips to even shorter than they were stock would suck. Deal with it.
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Old 01-19-18, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Shortening the old grips to even shorter than they were stock would suck. Deal with it.
You STILL didn't get it: You do not have to do that. The OLD grips (original width) will fit (but tight). WIDER grips (like the 2017 Brompton ones or Ergons with full width) won't (on the old pre 2017 M-bars). LESS WIDE Ergons will fit, even with bar-ends, but with bar ends probably your hands will feel a bit cramped.

And the only reason I am posting this is because you do FALSE CLAIMS over and over again, oubviously out of pure ignorance and thus lead people to wrong assumptions. And in opposite to what you say I have mounted them on the old M-bars testwise out of curiosity. But I ride other combinations of bars and levers on my Brompton in daily life.

So if you do not want to be annoyed stop posting false claims - should be pretty easy.
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Old 01-19-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
You STILL didn't get it: You do not have to do that. The OLD grips (original width) will fit (but tight). WIDER grips (like the 2017 Brompton ones or Ergons with full width) won't (on the old pre 2017 M-bars). LESS WIDE Ergons will fit, even with bar-ends, but with bar ends probably your hands will feel a bit cramped.

And the only reason I am posting this is because you do FALSE CLAIMS over and over again, oubviously out of pure ignorance and thus lead people to wrong assumptions. And in opposite to what you say I have mounted them on the old M-bars testwise out of curiosity. But I ride other combinations of bars and levers on my Brompton in daily life.

So if you do not want to be annoyed stop posting false claims - should be pretty easy.
Make up your mind, will you have less space for the old shorty grips, or will they fit? Based on your original assessment I surmised that my small hands would be on a grip trimmed a bit to make room for a new-style shifter, and I'm telling you that's not enough grip left to make the ride enjoyable. So pick a damn position and stick with it, smart guy.
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Old 01-19-18, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Make up your mind, will you have less space for the old shorty grips, or will they fit? Based on your original assessment I surmised that my small hands would be on a grip trimmed a bit to make room for a new-style shifter, and I'm telling you that's not enough grip left to make the ride enjoyable. So pick a damn position and stick with it, smart guy.
It would be a good idea if you would learn how to read properly and stop insulting other people if you don't. Instead of claiming false facts I'd suggest just to ask for clarification if there's something you do not understand. Preferably w/o insulting other people. I wrote:

Originally Posted by berlinonaut
Second you CAN use the new shifter with the old M-bars the issue is that it is a tight fit and you might end up with less space for the grips than before. So only recommended for those with smaller hands (or at least average ones).
And this is perfectly true:

- on the old bars with the old levers you have space to fit wider grips than the stock ones.
- on the old bars with the new levers you won't. You will however have enough space for the original pre-2017 grips.
- depending on which angle you choose for the 2017 brake- and shifting-levers on the pre-2017 bars the issue will be more or less intensive and you might even need to cut grips to size in some cases. You do not have much room to play with anyway as the new bars have a slightly different angle for the riser part of the bars than the old ones. It is mainly this what sets the limits.

To stop any misunderstanding, even by a person as ignorant as you, here are the actual measurements:

"flat" area of the old M-bars: ~14,5 cm
"flat" area of the 2017 M-bars: ~15,5 cm

ca. inside width (necessary clamping area)/outside width/usable grip area of

Brompton MK3 grips 10,4 cm/10,4 cm/10,4 cm
Brompton MK4 M-grips (2015): 10,6 cm/10,6 cm/10,6 cm
Ergon GP1 full width w/o bar ends 13 cm/13 cm/13 cm
Ergon GC2 full width w bar ends 13 cm/13,2 cm/11,8 cm
Brompton 2017 grips 12cm / 12,5cm /11,5 cm

clamping width of Brompton brake-levers (since 2013): 1,5 cm

additional space necessary for the 2017 shifters BELOW THE BARS: 2cm - 4,5 cm (depending from the mounting angle). In most cases about 3 cm should be sufficient.

As the angle of the riser part of the 2017 bars is not as steep as the one of the older ones they offer less space here - roughly 1 cm where 2cm would be needed for the 2017 shifters and 2,5cm where 4,5 would be needed. Therefore the brake lever clamping has to sit about min 1 cm further towards the end of the bars thus influencing the space left for the grips. Instead of ~14,5cm - 1,5 cm = ~13 cm maximum with the old shifters about more or less 11 cm as absolute maximum (!) usable space is what's left in practice with the new shifters. Thus the original Brompton grips up to 2016 will fit in most cases while others do not.

Should not be too hard to understand...

Other than that the 2017 thumb-shifter points a bit into the grip area. Therefor I would only recommend it with the older grips, w/o bar ends and preferably not for people with bigger hands. In normal cases the shifters are not a necessary change anyway apart from optics IMHO.

Last edited by berlinonaut; 01-19-18 at 02:37 PM.
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