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Change Bike 650B

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Change Bike 650B

Old 11-25-19, 08:18 AM
  #26  
gtl
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Wow this looks fantastic. I am in Singapore too. Where did u get the frame from? Is there a distributor here?
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Old 11-25-19, 07:11 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by gtl View Post
Wow this looks fantastic. I am in Singapore too. Where did u get the frame from? Is there a distributor here?
Hi there.

I don't think there is a distributor here.
I got it via Caurosell
https://sg.carousell.com/bforbikes/?...query=products


Seller is good and followed up really well when item was shipped/
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Old 11-27-19, 08:38 AM
  #28  
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Neat bike! Back in the 90s, I rode from San Francisco to Los Angeles on a mountain bike fitted with 1" slicks. The front-end was a touch twitchy but that setup was able to keep up with road bikes no problem.

BTW, have I seen you on a camera forum somewhere?
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Old 11-27-19, 06:49 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by john m flores View Post
Neat bike! Back in the 90s, I rode from San Francisco to Los Angeles on a mountain bike fitted with 1" slicks. The front-end was a touch twitchy but that setup was able to keep up with road bikes no problem.

BTW, have I seen you on a camera forum somewhere?

Hey! Nice to see a familiar face here.

Yup same guy on Pentax Forums.
I use the same username on all forums.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:27 AM
  #30  
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lol. Pentaxian here too. Could I check apart from the frame which you got online, all the remaining parts were bought from a regular bike shop locally? Could you recommend me your shop?

Thanks

Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
Hey! Nice to see a familiar face here.

Yup same guy on Pentax Forums.
I use the same username on all forums.
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Old 01-01-20, 07:08 PM
  #31  
pinholecam
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Originally Posted by gtl View Post
lol. Pentaxian here too. Could I check apart from the frame which you got online, all the remaining parts were bought from a regular bike shop locally? Could you recommend me your shop?

Thanks

Hey! Hi There!
Always good to find another Pentaxian around.



Unfortunately, I got a lot of problems getting the parts and most of it was bought online.
Singapore is such a small market and distributors just want to deal with best sellers to clear stock fast (and sell for more)
Local SRAM did not have SRAM Rival (they only did Force and Red) , they did not have X9 (mtb ) no 42T chainring of course.

If you are running a pure MTB groupset, then you should be fine locally with Shimano SLX, XT or XTR.
However, if you want to run a mix you will have to buy stuff online or a mix.

Do note :
1. The frame will not clear a chainring larger than 44T (smaller is fine) with a mtb spindle (larger ring teeth will rub the chainstay)
2. It needs MTB spindle length to clear the chainring from the chainstays. (So don't buy/install a road crank; this is a MTB frame after all)
The above 2 are non-issue if you just run a mtb 68mm BB+crank+smaller chainrings (MTB chainrings are largest 34T nowadays)

I really like the Rival 1x, but it does mean dealing with a online store that can ship to Singapore (most don't)
If I were to do it again, it would be Shimano due to ease of availibility.
GRX Brifters
GRX RD
GRX11-42T cassette
Shimano XT crank + 38T chainring (3rd party chainring easy bought online)

Otherwise, I'd just buy Shimano XT groupset and a flat bar with Ergon2 grips which have been the most comfortable setup I've used.


Do note that I do have the quirky need to have the bike serve as a 'road bike' for riding in road rides.
Hence, I needed quite a high gear (44T chainring + 10T smallest cog)
Depending on needs, you may be able to just have lower gearing instead.
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Old 01-02-20, 03:53 PM
  #32  
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"Always good to find Pentaxians around."

I plan to have a frame custom built using titanium. I have the following requirements: 1. the bike would be used for multi-modal transport, therefore, it should be as light as possible (preferably 8Kg or less). 2. The frame should be able to accommodate 700x28C tires with C-brakes as well as 26" tires with disk brakes. 3. The bike in folded configuration should be able to fit in a small car trunk and be carried into MRT and high speed trains.
The movable joint between down tube and BB shell exists long before Changebike. Their invention is the notched joint between the top tube and the seat tube. I do not need that. I would cut the seat tube and install two cramps, using seat post as the connecting tube.

Last edited by violini; 01-02-20 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 01-02-20, 08:34 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by violini View Post
"Always good to find Pentaxians around."

I plan to have a frame custom built using titanium. I have the following requirements: 1. the bike would be used for multi-modal transport, therefore, it should be as light as possible (preferably 8Kg or less). 2. The frame should be able to accommodate 700x28C tires with C-brakes as well as 26" tires with disk brakes. 3. The bike in folded configuration should be able to fit in a small car trunk and be carried into MRT and high speed trains.
The movable joint between down tube and BB shell exists long before Changebike. Their invention is the notched joint between the top tube and the seat tube. I do not need that. I would cut the seat tube and install two cramps, using seat post as the connecting tube.
Actually I am tempted do custom a Titanium bike with the Ritchey Breakaway system.

Based on what I can gather :
1. Ti bike is not that light if going for a roadbike like frame design (7.8kg-8.8kg ) thereabouts seems common and often the lighter ones use caliper brakes.
2. A caliper brake and disc brake mount option adds weight (alternatively, opt for V-brake on the rear for tire clearance and the front is easy to settle with either a disc ot caliper fork. ); Personally, I'd just go for disc brakes for multi-purpose and a pure caliper brake bike for lightest possible weight (and probably just road riding).
3. Yes, ChangeBike's innovation is the notched joint and sometimes, I feel that adds a bit too much weight.
4. The Ritchey breakaway system is claimed to add only 0.1kg so any other folding system will be a bit more.


My Bike Friday Pocket Rocket Super Pro weights 8.5kg (all in except saddle bag and bottles) .
It gives any roadie a run for their money unless they can sustain 52/13T for more than 20min on an individal effort or try to out gear me on a downslope with the 52/12; 52/12
Basically, the road bike rider has to use the higher gearing to his/her advantage.
I know there are lighter builds out there using carbon fork and seat post.
So perhaps the bike that matches a road bike (up to a point) is already out there (for me)


All said, hope you go ahead with your project and let us know how it pans out.

.
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Old 05-02-20, 09:47 AM
  #34  
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What kind of mechanic fails to notice that the frame folds?
I find the fragility of the components that give good road ride make the category Packable/Foldable its own subset
as my 26ers with front wheel off compete with my Montague for packability/storage , are lighter and about same size, not much faster fold, mostly due to the discs.
Pretty build for sure.
? How does the frame compare with the Montague FIT? I like Changes use of the FoldFlat stem

Last edited by bikebikebike; 05-02-20 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 05-03-20, 11:57 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bikebikebike View Post
What kind of mechanic fails to notice that the frame folds?
I find the fragility of the components that give good road ride make the category Packable/Foldable its own subset
as my 26ers with front wheel off compete with my Montague for packability/storage , are lighter and about same size, not much faster fold, mostly due to the discs.
Pretty build for sure.
? How does the frame compare with the Montague FIT? I like Changes use of the FoldFlat stem

Don't have a Montague FIT, though I've viewed a Crosstown years ago at the local distributor.
Generally, I think they are more the same than they are different.
Very similar fold.
The advantage to the Change is the mounting on the chainstay for the front wheel when it is detached.
The advantage to the Montague is that its only one top lock/latch to undo for folding the bike (safety wise, advantage is to the Change with its 2 latch system though)
The Montague is Size 19 smallest, which does not fit me at all. (best a 15 for me, and shaving it at size 17 )

I think I'd be happy with either bike (provided the Size 19 Montague fits me )

To think about it, if I had got that CrossTown when I started it all, I'd probably have stopped at that one folding bike instead of going from 18" > 406 > 451 > 650b in wheel size/bike.
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Old 05-06-20, 08:44 PM
  #36  
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Good to see it was a good fit to your need. It's a handsome bike.
Foldies are pretty "application specific", and it's often a journey to get the fit right, as their compromises narrow adaptability.
I ended up with several, too, and even then, a lot of tweaking to match weight, size and to match the road surface and distance.
Still ,it's a pleasure to find the right tool.
Thanks for the information on the CrossTown and 650's
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Old 11-17-20, 07:35 AM
  #37  
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Hello TS,

nice pics and review. May i know how is the ride and the folding mechanism currently? Do you fold regularly for storage, and has there been any squeaky noises ?

I used to have a 20" foldie, and am now considering Change Bike (specifically 809G), as I wanted comfort and stability.

In my previous 20" foldie ride, it has 1.35 tires, which made it fast. But i found it to be wobbly, perhaps due to breaking of the frame in half and bumps on pavements are felt a lot. Hence, I am looking for a better bicycle.

I'm from sg as well

Last edited by ykcaj; 11-17-20 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 11-18-20, 06:23 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ykcaj View Post
Hello TS,

nice pics and review. May i know how is the ride and the folding mechanism currently? Do you fold regularly for storage, and has there been any squeaky noises ?

I used to have a 20" foldie, and am now considering Change Bike (specifically 809G), as I wanted comfort and stability.

In my previous 20" foldie ride, it has 1.35 tires, which made it fast. But i found it to be wobbly, perhaps due to breaking of the frame in half and bumps on pavements are felt a lot. Hence, I am looking for a better bicycle.

I'm from sg as well

Hi there!

Just took the bike for a mix road+gravel ride today at Pulau Ubin.
The bike is really in its most natural state in this type of riding.
I'll probably update this thread about the ride soon.

So its been more than a year now that I've had this bike and its been ridden regularly enough and often at a hard pace w/ fellow riders using road bikes.
No issues with the ride.
There can be some squeeky noise if the folding area is not lubed, but its easily settled with some lube. (maybe once a few months)
No flex that I can feel (though I've never felt it on any bike I've used). (in fact, I think its quite a 'hard' feeling bike with the large diameter seat-tube)
Disclaimer : I'm no bike connoisseur, just a guy who appreciates bikes in all their forms, so if you are looking for a more critical 'princess and the pea' type of appreciation of nuances, I might not be the best guy to feel such things.



I fold it all the time.
In the house, getting on the train to bring my kids out, or into cars.
Its really not hard to fold (imho).


Wider tires will certainly be better for a more damped ride, though if you ride primarily on pavements, a larger wheeled bike will trade off nimble maneuverability with better rolling.

This is certainly an often overlooked folding bike option and imho as good as any other out there (if not the best for certain type of riding eg. gravel, speed, comfort )

Last edited by pinholecam; 11-18-20 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 11-18-20, 06:36 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
Hi there!

Just took the bike for a mix road+gravel ride today at Pulau Ubin.
The bike is really in its most natural state in this type of riding.
I'll probably update this thread about the ride soon.

So its been more than a year now that I've had this bike and its been ridden regularly enough and often at a hard pace w/ fellow riders using road bikes.
No issues with the ride.
There can be some squeeky noise if the folding area is not lubed, but its easily settled with some lube. (maybe once a few months)
No flex that I can feel (though I've never felt it on any bike I've used). (in fact, I think its quite a 'hard' feeling bike with the large diameter seat-tube)
Disclaimer : I'm no bike connoisseur, just a guy who appreciates bikes in all their forms, so if you are looking for a more critical 'princess and the pea' type of appreciation of nuances, I might not be the best guy to feel such things.



I fold it all the time.
In the house, getting on the train to bring my kids out, or into cars.
Its really not hard to fold (imho).


Wider tires will certainly be better for a more damped ride, though if you ride primarily on pavements, a larger wheeled bike will trade off nimble maneuverability with better rolling.

This is certainly an often overlooked folding bike option and imho as good as any other out there (if not the best for certain type of riding eg. gravel, speed, comfort )
can be bought on the train as well? never got stopped before, since it exceeds the regulated limits?

probably bulky, but i personally didnt fold and ride before. Only time i ever folded and took a train was because i was caught in the middle of a downpour hahaha!
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Old 11-18-20, 06:59 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by ykcaj View Post
can be bought on the train as well? never got stopped before, since it exceeds the regulated limits?

probably bulky, but i personally didnt fold and ride before. Only time i ever folded and took a train was because i was caught in the middle of a downpour hahaha!

Yes, no issues with the folded size for the MRT.

I'm not a rider who folds up the bike when it rains, but the folding is certainly useful when I use the bike to bring my kids somewhere to cycle.
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Old 11-24-20, 12:09 AM
  #41  
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Update Nov2020 : Mixed Terrain Riding

With the lack of travel options in this situation, I wanted to do something different from the usual road riding, so I brought the ChangeBike to the local island of Pulau Ubin for some mixed terrain riding.


IMG_20201118_090538-1 by pinholecam02, on Flickr
Short ferry trip by Bumboat to the island.

The island has had most of its original loose granite chip and dirt track paths changed to bitumen roads, but there are plenty of unpaved tracks still around, linking to some of the less travelled parts of the island.


IMG_20201118_092545-1 by pinholecam02, on Flickr

I had my tires pumped at about 45psi as I cycled to the jetty from my place via road.
The intention was to drop the tire pressure if necessary for the trails, but in the end, I had reasonable damping and traction, so I just left the pressure as it was.


IMG_20201118_093120 by pinholecam02, on Flickr

The bike really felt in its natural state with this sort of riding.
Ride briskly on the roads, see any interesting trail, just take it.
There were some more bumpy sections, but the 42mm tires + Suntour suspension seatpost really made these much less noticeable.
I was surprised that the Suntour came into its own, more so on these trails than I've ever felt on road bumps, working well and overtime on the many number of trail imperfections.


IMG_20201118_112330-1 by pinholecam02, on Flickr


By midday, I had done a full 3hrs of cycling on a good mix of terrain.
It would be a ferry ride back, then the same 25km road ride back home.
By then, the Sun was already relentless.
I stopped at a local store serving a traditional dessert of Chendol (shaved ice with coconut sugar syrup and assortment of sweet bits), reflecting on the nice ride that I had just completed.
Glad that I had decided to go despite the rainy weather here which would often mean a muddy+sandy bike and a big bike wash.


IMG_20201118_120922 by pinholecam02, on Flickr
Nice cold bowl of Chendol to cool off after the ride

Nothing to complain here about the bike.
It handled really well, the long top tube, coupled with shorter stem gave better control over the terrain which I did not appreciate on the road.
The mtb geometry also felt stable on the bumpy trail descents and the wide tire + suspension saddle helped too with the stability.

Last edited by pinholecam; 11-24-20 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 01-02-21, 06:18 AM
  #42  
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Hi pinholecam, I love your build, and I am thinking it is very close to what my ideal bike, where I am seeking a versatile, all-round bike. Living in Singapore so I am short of space, I currently ride a heavy china Montague MTB clone and was previously looking at a Birdy as I intend to eventually tour with it but seeing your build has inspired me.


With the new bike I intend to commute to work a few times a week (storage will be outdoors in the elements), taking my toddler son out for bike rides (so a foldable bike means we can explore further), occasional trips overseas, I love all terrain riding (occasional gravel not just park connectors and road) and every now and then going long weekend night rides with my friends who are mostly roadies.


Any idea weight of your setup? I am not very technical and would love to get some advice and shop that is competent to help me achieve my dream.


Appreciate in advance!
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Old 01-03-21, 04:09 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Hi pinholecam, I love your build, and I am thinking it is very close to what my ideal bike, where I am seeking a versatile, all-round bike. Living in Singapore so I am short of space, I currently ride a heavy china Montague MTB clone and was previously looking at a Birdy as I intend to eventually tour with it but seeing your build has inspired me.


With the new bike I intend to commute to work a few times a week (storage will be outdoors in the elements), taking my toddler son out for bike rides (so a foldable bike means we can explore further), occasional trips overseas, I love all terrain riding (occasional gravel not just park connectors and road) and every now and then going long weekend night rides with my friends who are mostly roadies.


Any idea weight of your setup? I am not very technical and would love to get some advice and shop that is competent to help me achieve my dream.


Appreciate in advance!
Hi there.
Glad that the info I put here has been useful.

My build weighs about 14kg, minus the rack, suspension seatpost and leather saddle, I'd reckon it should get you to 10.5kg-11.5kg.
I do fold my bike all the time in the apartment, so its really quite easy/fast to fold once you get used to it.

The folding will also be ok, up the MRT, which I do use when I bring my kids cycling. (if riding myself, I don't take the train w/ the bike)
Ideally, I would have taken the bike to Iceland this June, but it seems like its not meant to be... , but having tried it in Penang with its rolling hills and locally on Ubin, I am confident of it being able to handle rolling terrain and trails.
I'd just drop the chainring from my current 44t to a 38t for overseas with a loaded bike.

Exposing the bike to the elements won't be a good idea.
The components will rust for sure unless you have them gunked in oil for protection.
I do ride to the office now and then w/ this bike, but I fold and store it in a common storage area.

If you want a more compact fold, do consider using straight bars instead of road bars.
The bike can actually be pushed after fold, just need to secure the handlebar with a velcro or elastic bungee (I use a cut dis-used inner tube for that)

Local shop wise, I go to Bike Stop along Thomson road.
A fellow rider I know on the local Facebook also went there to set up his ChangeBike, so I guess Bike Stop has the most hands on experience with this bike.
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Old 01-05-21, 08:51 AM
  #44  
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Thanks for the advice

Pinholecam,


Iceland!!! That is my dream bike destination for a gravel bike experience! You must post photos if you go! Your photos look awesome (I used to take photos with Olympus OMD) so we are in the same 4/3 family!


Thanks for the advice and hope you don't mind me bothering you with a more questions! Good point regarding the storage of the bike - will need to figure out this one my office is a traditional shophouse second level!


Which size are you using for the frame? I am 1.71 in height - I reckon the 17" is the one I should go for?


I also read Foldingtales site - I am concerned about rolling it feel more comfortable the option of being able to push short distances during touring as lugging doesnt sound good. so your solution is to use velcro or elastic band to hold it in place in case i use drop bars? Straight bars does quite cut it - would using bull bars help?


Also from folding tales - their respective builds were around 9kg and am hoping to keep the weight to sub 10kg with the gravel tires - do you reckon its even plausible since they used the road bike frame while you are using the 650b frame?


Is the Changebike have enough eyelets for touring gear?


Is the LBS you built the bike Bike Stop? Anyone I should look for or mention that you recommended me?


For the respective parts, did you buy online or can the shop purchase them?


I am aiming for the most versatile, all rounder bike (silly I know but I really dont have the luxury of space to store my wife bike, my bike plus kids bike indoors in my apartment), would you reckon if I should go all roadbike drivetrain or MTB drivetrain. What is the drawbacks?


I am asking because for the drivetrain, you are using MTB crank and "road" DR and shifters with 1X11, do you reckon is that enough gears? Like you this bike will serve as a 'road bike' for riding in road group rides so I need high gears so i dont get dropped (least easily - my friends are mostly roadies as i mentioned) but also need enough grannie low gears for hill climbs for touring so i have questions on your setup - do you feel its enough gears low and high? Or should I aim for 2X11 drivetrain or is that not possible.


I saw that the max chainring is 44T - that is probably because you are running Shimano XT as crank? Could you advise why you went with a MTB crank?


I definitely want this Cassette - Sram Cassette XG-1150 10-42 for the 10T so i have high enough gear inches (based on my calculations your setup should have least 120 - 125), but that is the reason for the SRAM rival RD and STI levers?


Sorry for the flurry of questions. as I really want to get this done right and i have never built a bike from the ground up before!


Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
Hi there.

Glad that the info I put here has been useful.


My build weighs about 14kg, minus the rack, suspension seatpost and leather saddle, I'd reckon it should get you to 10.5kg-11.5kg.

I do fold my bike all the time in the apartment, so its really quite easy/fast to fold once you get used to it.


The folding will also be ok, up the MRT, which I do use when I bring my kids cycling. (if riding myself, I don't take the train w/ the bike)

Ideally, I would have taken the bike to Iceland this June, but it seems like its not meant to be... , but having tried it in Penang with its rolling hills and locally on Ubin, I am confident of it being able to handle rolling terrain and trails.

I'd just drop the chainring from my current 44t to a 38t for overseas with a loaded bike.


Exposing the bike to the elements won't be a good idea.

The components will rust for sure unless you have them gunked in oil for protection.

I do ride to the office now and then w/ this bike, but I fold and store it in a common storage area.


If you want a more compact fold, do consider using straight bars instead of road bars.

The bike can actually be pushed after fold, just need to secure the handlebar with a velcro or elastic bungee (I use a cut dis-used inner tube for that)


Local shop wise, I go to Bike Stop along Thomson road.

A fellow rider I know on the local Facebook also went there to set up his ChangeBike, so I guess Bike Stop has the most hands on experience with this bike.
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Old 01-10-21, 06:50 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Pinholecam,


Iceland!!! That is my dream bike destination for a gravel bike experience! You must post photos if you go! Your photos look awesome (I used to take photos with Olympus OMD) so we are in the same 4/3 family!


Thanks for the advice and hope you don't mind me bothering you with a more questions! Good point regarding the storage of the bike - will need to figure out this one my office is a traditional shophouse second level!

Sorry for the flurry of questions. as I really want to get this done right and i have never built a bike from the ground up before!
These are good questions...
I try to answer them as best as I can.



Which size are you using for the frame? I am 1.71 in height - I reckon the 17" is the one I should go for?
>> I am only 1.6m, and 17" is actually a bit big for me, but still ok. Yeah, I think the 17" frame should be good for you.


I also read Foldingtales site - I am concerned about rolling it feel more comfortable the option of being able to push short distances during touring as lugging doesnt sound good. so your solution is to use velcro or elastic band to hold it in place in case i use drop bars? Straight bars does quite cut it - would using bull bars help?
>> Then just go for drop bars. My suggestion for straight bars was for maximum fold size and ease of pushing after fold.


Also from folding tales - their respective builds were around 9kg and am hoping to keep the weight to sub 10kg with the gravel tires - do you reckon its even plausible since they used the road bike frame while you are using the 650b frame?
>> I also thought that the bike frames were the same in weight, but now, in hindsight, I think the 650b frame is heavier, so I have doubts on a sub 10kg build.


Is the Changebike have enough eyelets for touring gear?
>> Rear rack is fine. (I have one mounted on my bike). Front rack will depend on the fork you get. No option for fenders afaik (need to improvise if needed )


Is the LBS you built the bike Bike Stop? Anyone I should look for or mention that you recommended me?
>> Yes, Bike Stop. I'm a regular customer and they know this bike for sure. They helped setup another bike for another customer as well.


For the respective parts, did you buy online or can the shop purchase them?
I bought most stuff online due to my weird (in SG terms) setup. Local SRAM is "we don't have all these except for Force and Red" (so I brought my business elsewhere... )


I am aiming for the most versatile, all rounder bike (silly I know but I really dont have the luxury of space to store my wife bike, my bike plus kids bike indoors in my apartment), would you reckon if I should go all roadbike drivetrain or MTB drivetrain. What is the drawbacks?
>> My quest for such a bike came down to the conclusion that there wasn't one, if you want to go toe to toe with similarly fit peers who are on their road bikes, and yet have a fast/convenient fold.
The ChangeBike 650b can hold its own if you are smart/cunning on the drafting and leadout at the final moments of the ending points of a ride. But if you want to be the guy who demolishes everyone straight out in a run (eg. like a stretch of TMCR or LCK or Mandai climb ), then its just not that type of bike and asking too much of it.
My quest did lead me to the N=1 if I discounted heavy loaded touring and easy fold/unfold.
Here :
Quest for N=1 Waltly Custom Titanium breakaway all road bike



I am asking because for the drivetrain, you are using MTB crank and "road" DR and shifters with 1X11, do you reckon is that enough gears?
>> Its not the gears are not high enough, but rather, the gear spacing especially at the top end is too widely spaced.
The SRAM 10-42 cassette is 10-12-14t..... At fast speeds, the muscle 'shock' of transitioning from 14 > 12 > 10 is just too much when other riders surge.
If you value long individual efforts (as 'proof' of your ride ability), then you ease into the gear change and reel in any other rider over the course of a ride.


Like you this bike will serve as a 'road bike' for riding in road group rides so I need high gears so i dont get dropped (least easily - my friends are mostly roadies as i mentioned) but also need enough grannie low gears for hill climbs for touring so i have questions on your setup - do you feel its enough gears low and high? Or should I aim for 2X11 drivetrain or is that not possible.
>> 2x is not possible. Ultimately, its a MTB frame and they don't take 2x (rubs the chainstay )
Its also limited to 42T for the chainring.
For my 44T, I had to shim it on the drive side a bit more to clear it from the chainstay.
This affects the Q, and not everyone likes that.
My setup 44T with 10-42t works for light tours and local rides.
For loaded touring, I'd go for 38t with 10-42t (at the minimum) or even 34t


I saw that the max chainring is 44T - that is probably because you are running Shimano XT as crank? Could you advise why you went with a MTB crank?
>> as above; You can also get a SRAM MTB crank, but they are hard to get new locally.

I definitely want this Cassette - Sram Cassette XG-1150 10-42 for the 10T so i have high enough gear inches (based on my calculations your setup should have least 120 - 125), but that is the reason for the SRAM rival RD and STI levers?
>> SRAM 10-42T needs a XD compatible hub.
Since its road bars, it will have to be Rival, since Force and Red are electronic and 12sp and expensive.
The even less common option (locally) is Microshift Advent. ( a FB friend has that setup on his Change bike)
Shimano, you are limited to 11t as smallest unless its the latest XT, XTR, but then you are stuck with trigger shifters.
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Old 01-10-21, 09:14 AM
  #46  
Freem@n
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Very grateful

Thanks for the guidance pinholecam ! Some last questions and replies to your comments! Thanks in advance

Which size are you using for the frame? I am 1.71 in height - I reckon the 17" is the one I should go for?
>> I am only 1.6m, and 17" is actually a bit big for me, but still ok. Yeah, I think the 17" frame should be good for you.
<<<great.

I also read Foldingtales site - I am concerned about rolling it feel more comfortable the option of being able to push short distances during touring as lugging doesnt sound good. so your solution is to use velcro or elastic band to hold it in place in case i use drop bars? Straight bars does quite cut it - would using bull bars help?
>> Then just go for drop bars. My suggestion for straight bars was for maximum fold size and ease of pushing after fold.
<<< Yes but I guess I have to compromise fold size as i think dropbar offers relief in headwinds. Do you reckon having adjustable stem like Richey 4 axis stem will help with the fold/rolling?

Also from folding tales - their respective builds were around 9kg and am hoping to keep the weight to sub 10kg with the gravel tires - do you reckon its even plausible since they used the road bike frame while you are using the 650b frame?
>> I also thought that the bike frames were the same in weight, but now, in hindsight, I think the 650b frame is heavier, so I have doubts on a sub 10kg build.
<<<Ok let me see if I can least get it to around 10 - 10.5 without pedal and accessories, but I am hoping it will at least lighter than the Montague Crosstown.

Is the Changebike have enough eyelets for touring gear?
>> Rear rack is fine. (I have one mounted on my bike). Front rack will depend on the fork you get. No option for fenders afaik (need to improvise if needed )
<<<Noted! I reckon that when I eventually tour you would have already taken to the road (iceland or somewhere exciting no doubt) and that will help figure out how to get my gear setup.

Is the LBS you built the bike Bike Stop? Anyone I should look for or mention that you recommended me?
>> Yes, Bike Stop. I'm a regular customer and they know this bike for sure. They helped setup another bike for another customer as well.
<<<Great!

For the respective parts, did you buy online or can the shop purchase them?
I bought most stuff online due to my weird (in SG terms) setup. Local SRAM is "we don't have all these except for Force and Red" (so I brought my business elsewhere... )


I am aiming for the most versatile, all rounder bike (silly I know but I really dont have the luxury of space to store my wife bike, my bike plus kids bike indoors in my apartment), would you reckon if I should go all roadbike drivetrain or MTB drivetrain. What is the drawbacks?
>> My quest for such a bike came down to the conclusion that there wasn't one, if you want to go toe to toe with similarly fit peers who are on their road bikes, and yet have a fast/convenient fold.
The ChangeBike 650b can hold its own if you are smart/cunning on the drafting and leadout at the final moments of the ending points of a ride. But if you want to be the guy who demolishes everyone straight out in a run (eg. like a stretch of TMCR or LCK or Mandai climb ), then its just not that type of bike and asking too much of it.
My quest did lead me to the N=1 if I discounted heavy loaded touring and easy fold/unfold.
Here :

<<<I am realistic and I don't intend this to be leading a peloton or this bike being on par with a dedicated race road bike (recognise that's not realistic), but just to get a versatile bike as possible, and in the long group rides able to hang in a group ride and dropped without resorting to mashing the pedals (in the worst case swopping over a set of carbon wheels with 28mm tyres if i have to). Given my space conditions i can realistically only have one bike (hence my Montague clone) and have been weighing and contemplating a Birdy 20" (since i could eventually tour with it when this pandemic is over) but I noticed many foldie riders eventually moved back up to full size bike to get more gear inches and stability into the ride as they become stronger riders. I value a foldie for multimodal transport, touring and regularly take my child to different/further locations (Ubin, Coney Island), or eventually pack several bikes in the boot in our mini SUV without resorting to a rack.

That said I am a little curious though on the reason behind the titanium breakaway build - since you only just finished your ChangeBike build.

I am asking because for the drivetrain, you are using MTB crank and "road" DR and shifters with 1X11, do you reckon is that enough gears?
>> Its not the gears are not high enough, but rather, the gear spacing especially at the top end is too widely spaced.
The SRAM 10-42 cassette is 10-12-14t..... At fast speeds, the muscle 'shock' of transitioning from 14 > 12 > 10 is just too much when other riders surge.
If you value long individual efforts (as 'proof' of your ride ability), then you ease into the gear change and reel in any other rider over the course of a ride.
<<<Fair point. I don't need this to be a race bike - if i did I would have taken the 700c ChangeBike. I managed to keep up with the group over 50Km on my heavy MTB bike with knobby tyres, so shedding almost half of the weight should allow me to keep up as we aim to go for RTI (I just dont want to stress out my legs and enjoy the journey a little more).

Like you this bike will serve as a 'road bike' for riding in road group rides so I need high gears so i dont get dropped (least easily - my friends are mostly roadies as i mentioned) but also need enough grannie low gears for hill climbs for touring so i have questions on your setup - do you feel its enough gears low and high? Or should I aim for 2X11 drivetrain or is that not possible.
>> 2x is not possible. Ultimately, its a MTB frame and they don't take 2x (rubs the chainstay )
Its also limited to 42T for the chainring.
For my 44T, I had to shim it on the drive side a bit more to clear it from the chainstay.
This affects the Q, and not everyone likes that.
My setup 44T with 10-42t works for light tours and local rides.
For loaded touring, I'd go for 38t with 10-42t (at the minimum) or even 34t

<<<forgive my ignorance but not quite sure what "shim it" means or how it affects the Q. I would love to get to 44T for the chainring but i would similarly probably drop to 38T when I go on longer tours since I dont need the top end gear inches then.

I saw that the max chainring is 44T - that is probably because you are running Shimano XT as crank? Could you advise why you went with a MTB crank?
>> as above; You can also get a SRAM MTB crank, but they are hard to get new locally.

I definitely want this Cassette - Sram Cassette XG-1150 10-42 for the 10T so i have high enough gear inches (based on my calculations your setup should have least 120 - 125), but that is the reason for the SRAM rival RD and STI levers?
>> SRAM 10-42T needs a XD compatible hub.
Since its road bars, it will have to be Rival, since Force and Red are electronic and 12sp and expensive.
The even less common option (locally) is Microshift Advent. ( a FB friend has that setup on his Change bike)
Shimano, you are limited to 11t as smallest unless its the latest XT, XTR, but then you are stuck with trigger shifters.[/QUOTE]
<<<I read your previous threads and realised you had spent a lot of time hunting for the SRAM parts - would it be possible to share the links of the online distributors that you purchased the SRAM parts like the Rival shifters? Based on your experience I dont want to patronise the local SRAM distributor if they are not service oriented. Seems to be based on your feedback I should not be overly concerned about the fork, saddle, post, stem, wheelsets, tyres or dropbar.

<<<last questions before i take the proverbial plunge - What are your verdict/thoughts on your brakes, I am aiming for 38mm 650 tyres, whats your sense from your 42mm tyres? What do sort of budgets should i put aside for entire build?

Thanks for being so generous with your time and experience in your build. Much appreciated but I feel convinced this is the ideal bike for my quirky needs/constraints.

Last edited by Freem@n; 01-11-21 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 01-11-21, 01:18 PM
  #47  
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If touring with the changebike, how do you get a spare derailer hanger?
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Old 01-12-21, 07:49 PM
  #48  
pinholecam
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Thanks for the guidance pinholecam ! Some last questions and replies to your comments! Thanks in advance


Great that you find the info helpful, thats the purpose of a forum like this imho.


<<< Yes but I guess I have to compromise fold size as i think dropbar offers relief in headwinds. Do you reckon having adjustable stem like Richey 4 axis stem will help with the fold/rolling?

>> Yes, I got the dropbar to get relief from headwinds for tours and for faster riding locally.




<<<Ok let me see if I can least get it to around 10 - 10.5 without pedal and accessories, but I am hoping it will at least lighter than the Montague Crosstown.

>> Yes, do try it when you get the bike, I do think you should be able to get there or close.

Official Montague site says the Crosstown is 12.7kg though.
Crosstown | Montague Bikes



<<<Noted! I reckon that when I eventually tour you would have already taken to the road (iceland or somewhere exciting no doubt) and that will help figure out how to get my gear setup.

>> I've done a couple of test rides with the bike loaded to what I'd typically carry, so I think it works for my needs.
Camera bag (big one) on the front bar and panniers, tent, sleeping pad+bag on the rear.
I do have a minimalist approach to clothing and creature comforts, so YMMV.



<<<<<That said I am a little curious though on the reason behind the titanium breakaway build - since you only just finished your ChangeBike build.

>> The quest for N = 1

The ChangeBike does the loaded touring, self paced ride, folding/multi modal tour+commute and the more friendly paced fast local rides.
There are other rides that I found I needed a bike to fill the gap.
These are the fast local rides where no quarter is given by your mates, overseas ride events, light touring
So the custom Ti breakaway bike is more for the latter. Something that I still want to be able to break down to a small size for travelling but generally faster rides when I get there with usually no need to disassemble until I pack for the trip home.



<<<forgive my ignorance but not quite sure what "shim it" means or how it affects the Q. I would love to get to 44T for the chainring but i would similarly probably drop to 38T when I go on longer tours since I dont need the top end gear inches then.

>> Q is just how wide your feet are apart from each other while seated on the bike. So if gets to wide you cycle like a duck... (bad for knees too )
Some have better tolerance to Q differences than others
Since the chainstays are wider than a typical road bike to accommodate wider tires, a bigger chainring will have the teeth rub the chainstays.
The 44T chainring still clears the chainstays a bit, but its better to increase the distance from the chainstays by placing a shim on the drive side BB with a spacer.



<<<I read your previous threads and realised you had spent a lot of time hunting for the SRAM parts - would it be possible to share the links of the online distributors that you purchased the SRAM parts like the Rival shifters? Based on your experience I dont want to patronise the local SRAM distributor if they are not service oriented. Seems to be based on your feedback I should not be overly concerned about the fork, saddle, post, stem, wheelsets, tyres or dropbar.

>> Sorry, but I did not really keep a good list of the sites. But generally :
SRAM stuff - ebay ( I usually opt for the Taiwan sellers for faster and cheaper/free shipping )
BIKE24 - for the tires and some odds and ends
CRC - as usual..
TRP Spyre brakes - Ebay, though recently I found them on Lazada too (and its a bit cheaper)



<<<last questions before i take the proverbial plunge - What are your verdict/thoughts on your brakes, I am aiming for 38mm 650 tyres, whats your sense from your 42mm tyres? What do sort of budgets should i put aside for entire build?

>> TRP Spyre are probably the best cable disc brakes for the money. That said, due to the long cables involved for the bike to fold, it won't be as powerful as its intended.
There is certainly more than enough brake power though and certainly better than the caliper brakes on my other bikes.
Do get compressionless brake housings which I think will help give better braking performance. ( I did not go this route as I only realized this option later )

As for tire width, 42mm imho is a better all rounder in that its wide enough to benefit from the advantages it gives while slick enough pumped up to ride on the roads.
With benefits I mean, damping, tolerance to potholes and grates, taking on light trails w/o needed to think twice about changing tires.
38mm is like a 'in between' option imho. You'd still have more doubts about grates, slots on the road, more uncertainty about getting onto a trail.
So, I just keep 42mm and 28mm as the 2 tires I switch on the bike, though I have almost just kept to the 42mm after a few tires of the 28mm as I found it wasn't worth my time switching them for the riding I do on the bike.
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Old 01-13-21, 03:03 AM
  #49  
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Thanks for the insights

Very good insights of your build Pinholecam!

Might have a better chance with going toe to toe with Crosstown than 10kg. Realised that reading foldingtale, the 650b frame is already heavier than 700c by 0.2kg, then rim brakes over disk brakes, top of the line road components plus adding on to the heavier wheels and tyres would easily be another 1 - 1.5kg

I am not competitive cyclist and i riding is more about the freedom to explore more like foldingtales but your Titanium breakaway bike sounds sexy and would love to see it in flesh. I would have loved to get my hands on the Helix folding bike to see if its possible to tour with but hearing how slow the delivery is, makes me unsure if I want to wait that long.

Makes sense and fully understood now - sorry for the ignorance. I will see test it first if i can get this work without the shim. I reckon local rides are ok for me with 44T - i am certain i will drop to 38T or 34T like you i calculated the gear inches are too high even with the wide cassette. BTW I saw the Campagnolo Ekar 1X13 cassette which goes down to 9 - 42T! Looks exciting!

Most grateful for the feedback - maybe i go with 42mm first and figure if i want a second wheelset. Last question - I saw the flatbike with their Thinstem and popoff pedals. Your views on them? Thinstem seems interesting so i might be able to make the bike more compact.

Thanks so much!
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Old 01-13-21, 07:21 AM
  #50  
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Nice bike. What is the axle-to-crown dimension on the Kinesis Pro fork? I'm trying to build a "rugged hybrid" now for my wife, using the Change MTB frame, and its tapered-headtube (1-1/2 to 1-1/8) and geometry (it expects a fork with a 460mm axle-to-crown height) is limiting choices. I haven't been able to find a suitable aluminum fork.
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