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Change Bike 650B

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Change Bike 650B

Old 01-13-21, 07:04 PM
  #51  
pinholecam
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Very good insights of your build Pinholecam!

Thanks so much!

Might have a better chance with going toe to toe with Crosstown than 10kg. Realised that reading foldingtale, the 650b frame is already heavier than 700c by 0.2kg, then rim brakes over disk brakes, top of the line road components plus adding on to the heavier wheels and tyres would easily be another 1 - 1.5kg
>> Good find on the differences
Disc vs calipers would be at least 1kg in difference
The SRAM Rival is actually more than a match weight wise to Campagnolo offerings, especially if one changes out the Rival crank for a lighter one (eg. Red crank )


I am not competitive cyclist and i riding is more about the freedom to explore more like foldingtales but your Titanium breakaway bike sounds sexy and would love to see it in flesh. I would have loved to get my hands on the Helix folding bike to see if its possible to tour with but hearing how slow the delivery is, makes me unsure if I want to wait that long.
>> You can always contact me via FB (same user name as here) if you want to view the bike on the weekends.
My Ti breakaway is my N=1 (taking away fully loaded touring; folding for multi-modal commute)
After touring quite a bit and long distance rides w/ 18" and 451, my findings are that when the road is really chewed or its a trail with enough rocks/roots, its better with 26"/650b (probably 700c) with wider tires and maybe even just a MTB.


Makes sense and fully understood now - sorry for the ignorance. I will see test it first if i can get this work without the shim. I reckon local rides are ok for me with 44T - i am certain i will drop to 38T or 34T like you i calculated the gear inches are too high even with the wide cassette. BTW I saw the Campagnolo Ekar 1X13 cassette which goes down to 9 - 42T! Looks exciting!
>> I do think Ekar is the one that got it right with the gear spacing. Its also 13sp, which is where I think 1x needs to be to meet the requirements of wide gearing and closer gear spacings.

Most grateful for the feedback - maybe i go with 42mm first and figure if i want a second wheelset. Last question - I saw the flatbike with their Thinstem and popoff pedals. Your views on them? Thinstem seems interesting so i might be able to make the bike more compact.
>> Too clunky looking for my preferences.
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Old 01-13-21, 07:12 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by timo888 View Post
Nice bike. What is the axle-to-crown dimension on the Kinesis Pro fork? I'm trying to build a "rugged hybrid" now for my wife, using the Change MTB frame, and its tapered-headtube (1-1/2 to 1-1/8) and geometry (it expects a fork with a 460mm axle-to-crown height) is limiting choices. I haven't been able to find a suitable aluminum fork.
Thanks.

IIRC, it was 398mm.
TBH, it was something I did not think too much of and thought that it would not matter that much, but realized in hindsight that a longer axel-crown height could have put my in a better upright 'touring' position.

Maybe you can try this one on Kinesis site.
Kinesis Maxlight Boost Mountain Bike Forks - Kinesis Bikes
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Old 01-13-21, 08:23 PM
  #53  
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Pinholecam I will reach out to you via FB - curious to check out your TI N+. My ideal bike is titanium but its expensive as hell and I am not too comfortable with the idea of a breakaway at this point (as said I am not very technical though I want to learn) and i prefer a bike where i can use for loaded touring. As mentioned I was leaning towards the Birdy (its compact, multimodal) and looked at my brother in law's Bike Friday NWT but with my eventual goal being as touring bike i noticed everyone (even foldingtales) eventually moved up 18" > 20" > to a full size bike made me ponder that larger wheels is the probably the way to go.

I am curious I was reading the Changebike the 650b MTB full bike weighs 12.9kg with mid range components - and you mentioned that your bike setup seems heavier at 14kg? So i am wondering where I can get some savings in terms of weight.

My current foldable MTB is around 17kg all in with accessories so I am hoping to shed at least 5kg to justify the effort where I am even struggling as you mentioned to find the first component which is the SRAM XG1150 cassette - seems like ebay, Lazada the few options i found seem to be OEM/counterfeit parts.
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Old 01-13-21, 11:28 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Pinholecam I will reach out to you via FB - curious to check out your TI N+. My ideal bike is titanium but its expensive as hell and I am not too comfortable with the idea of a breakaway at this point (as said I am not very technical though I want to learn) and i prefer a bike where i can use for loaded touring. As mentioned I was leaning towards the Birdy (its compact, multimodal) and looked at my brother in law's Bike Friday NWT but with my eventual goal being as touring bike i noticed everyone (even foldingtales) eventually moved up 18" > 20" > to a full size bike made me ponder that larger wheels is the probably the way to go.

I am curious I was reading the Changebike the 650b MTB full bike weighs 12.9kg with mid range components - and you mentioned that your bike setup seems heavier at 14kg? So i am wondering where I can get some savings in terms of weight.

My current foldable MTB is around 17kg all in with accessories so I am hoping to shed at least 5kg to justify the effort where I am even struggling as you mentioned to find the first component which is the SRAM XG1150 cassette - seems like ebay, Lazada the few options i found seem to be OEM/counterfeit parts.

I've had many folding bikes over time. 18" Tyrell IVE, Alex Moulton TSR (406), Bike Friday Pocket Rocket super pro (451), etc.
Suspension robs climbing power and power when going really hard (eg. sprint or surges) - not an issue if you only ride and don't do these 2 with the bike.
Smaller wheels, don't roll over bigger road defects and trails as well, unless its some sort of 406 wheel with 1.85-2" type tire (I'd reckon) - not a problem if you don't do trails and bad roads.
Not that one can't tour on them, plenty of people do.
Depends on type of tour, terrain, load, fitness, time, etc.
If your plan for tours are on roads/pavements, then a workhorse like the NWT may work real well. (do note that it does not really fold conveniently, nor push/rolling after fold too. )

My bikes weight of about 14kg is with rack (probably 700g-1kg), leather saddle (1kg), suspension seatpost (1-1.5kg). Take those away and the bike should come down closer to 10.5-11kg.


Oh yeah.. a shout out for the Tyrell IVE if you are considering a bike like the Birdy.
Seriously under rated locally as people chase the 'safe' well known options.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fXP97CA4E_pT4Y

Last edited by pinholecam; 01-13-21 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 01-14-21, 12:19 AM
  #55  
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Good points! I was looking at across the various options (thats how I ended at your page) without the common hinge fold IVE, Birdy, Reach, Brompton were the main ones I was looking. Only reason why i was leaning towards Birdy over IVE was the monocque frame and that it could go up to 406 wheels, while I like IVE had traditional triangle frame but only up to 18".

I want to go off road into trails hence my weird search for folding + gravel/touring bike (*** stand-in road bike).

Thanks for confirming the weight which is the last concern - it was the only reason why I didn't get a Montague Crosstown in the first place as i think the Changebike appears lighter, easier to fold and has more options for gear placements as its a traditional triangle and inconspicuous where if most people wouldn't even know its a foldie, which is better when traveling in my book.

Btw for SRAM how can you tell its a genuine parts? A few of the online sellers on ebay said they will scrape off the serial number. And for the RD should it be long or shortcage?

Last edited by Freem@n; 01-14-21 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 01-14-21, 08:48 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
Thanks.

IIRC, it was 398mm.
TBH, it was something I did not think too much of and thought that it would not matter that much, but realized in hindsight that a longer axel-crown height could have put my in a better upright 'touring' position.

Maybe you can try this one on Kinesis site.
Kinesis Maxlight Boost Mountain Bike Forks - Kinesis Bikes
Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. I may have to get over my carbon-phobia :-)
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Old 01-14-21, 08:29 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by timo888 View Post
Thanks for that link. I'll check it out. I may have to get over my carbon-phobia :-)

Why not just for go for a Fox32 suspension fork?
I've been toying with the idea of getting one, or just a much cheaper (but heavier) one from other brands.
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Old 01-15-21, 01:51 AM
  #58  
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Hi Pinholecam, are you using a long cage deraileur? Possible for a medium cage RD?
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Old 01-16-21, 11:49 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Hi Pinholecam, are you using a long cage deraileur? Possible for a medium cage RD?
I think its a long cage (wrt SRAM Rival rear derailleur).
Rival has 2 rear-D iirc, the longer one is for the 10-42t cassette.

If you go for a med cage, it might not go up to the largest cassette.
You have to check specifically for the Rear-D (and brand) that you want to buy. (eg. Shimano XT, SRAM Rival, etc )
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Old 01-19-21, 05:26 PM
  #60  
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The bike's for my wife, who has ridden a step-through all her life, and she is already intimidated by the looks of the Change MTB frame. A Fox 32 suspension fork would just get me into deeper trouble, both in terms of looks and cost. It costs more than the frame. Change doesn't have a model for women, with a dip in the top-tube. The Change MTB frame in the smallest size looked to me as though it would have an acceptable standover height. But she would have preferred a Trek Verve 2 and a bike rack.

Trek Verve 2
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Old 01-19-21, 06:41 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by timo888 View Post
The bike's for my wife, who has ridden a step-through all her life, and she is already intimidated by the looks of the Change MTB frame. A Fox 32 suspension fork would just get me into deeper trouble, both in terms of looks and cost. It costs more than the frame. Change doesn't have a model for women, with a dip in the top-tube. The Change MTB frame in the smallest size looked to me as though it would have an acceptable standover height. But she would have preferred a Trek Verve 2 and a bike rack.

Trek Verve 2

noted.


The seller on my local website does have built up bikes for very good prices.
Folding MTB 27.5 [CHANGE BIKE DF-809B] Shimano 27speeds # changebike XC (not montague paratrooper) bicycle, Bicycles & PMDs, Bicycles, Mountain Bikes on Carousell

In fact, I am scratching my head as to how this below model can come with a Fox32 Performance and be cheaper than my gravel spec'ed bike.
If this was available when I was buying one, I'd have got it instead.
Well.. thats usually the woes of being an early adopter...
Change Bike DF-812 - Premium Foldable Mountain Bike - Made in Taiwan - FOX Performance Fork - Aerospace-Grade Aluminum - 5 Years Warranty, Bicycles & PMDs, Bicycles, Mountain Bikes on Carousell
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Old 01-19-21, 10:47 PM
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Hi Pinholecam,

Thanks to you, I have started my project - ordered bike frame in Blue, SRAM 1050 10-42 cassette, SRAM Rival long cage DR and Rival 1 X 11 mechanical shifter.

For brakes now looking to order and looking at TRP Spyre Mechanical Disc Brake Set Front & Rear with 160mm rotor. Is that enough or did you get 180mm?

Would it be possible to get more photos of your setup before and after fold?

For the crankset, are you using the Shimano Deore XT M8000 Crankset 1x11 Speed Chain Wheel crank with Deckas 96BCD 38T chainring? Do you reckon 175mm or 170mm is better (concerned about heel strike)

What are your thoughts on flared gravel bars?

Last edited by Freem@n; 01-19-21 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 01-19-21, 11:09 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Hi Pinholecam,

Thanks to you, I have started my project - ordered bike frame in Blue, SRAM 1050 10-42 cassette, SRAM Rival long cage DR and Rival 1 X 11 mechanical shifter.

For brakes now looking to order and looking at TRP Spyre Mechanical Disc Brake Set Front & Rear with 160mm rotor. Is that enough or did you get 180mm?

Would it be possible to get more photos of your setup and the fold?

What are your thoughts on flared gravel bars?



I have been using 160mm and its been ok for my needs.
I doubt there is any wrong with 180mm either.
Remember to get compressionless housing for the brakes if possible. (do remember to get the rear one to be long enough to cater for the folding)

My bike is not always with me as its stored in another place.
But do let me know where specifically you want to have photos of, and I can take some pics when I rotate to the bike.


No idea on flared bars.
My take is that I don't have the skills to be in the drops when on trails so I have no need for them.
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Old 01-20-21, 07:11 PM
  #64  
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Thanks Pinholecam! Great tips. For the compressionless housing and actuator cables do i need to purchase or are those available at the bike shop?
For the Tpr Spyre brakes - what does it mean by flat mount and post mount? Which ones should I get?

For the crankset, are you using the Shimano Deore XT M8000 Crankset 1x11 Speed Chain Wheel crank with Deckas 96BCD 38T chainring?

Last edited by Freem@n; 01-20-21 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 01-20-21, 11:45 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Thanks Pinholecam! Great tips. For the compressionless housing and actuator cables do i need to purchase or are those available at the bike shop?
For the Tpr Spyre brakes - what does it mean by flat mount and post mount? Which ones should I get?

For the crankset, are you using the Shimano Deore XT M8000 Crankset 1x11 Speed Chain Wheel crank with Deckas 96BCD 38T chainring?

Edit : Let me confirm again on my bike once I have a chance to get to it. (but off the top of my head... )

Best you ask the shop you will set up the bike in beforehand, or just buy online.

As for Flat or Post mount, I think its clearer here :
Road Disc Brake Tech: Flat-mount vs Post-mount - Bike Hugger

Do note that the ChangeBike uses the IS mount (International Standard) which ironically isn't very international anymore.
IIRC, you will need TRP Spyre (make sure its the one for road lever pull ratio), also it needs to be Post mount and you need the IS adapter. (also for 160mm or whatever disc size you intend to get)
Something like in this photo (but make sure you check that the adapter is included)
TRP Spyre road bike bicycle Alloy Mechanical Disc Brake Set Front & Rear Include 160mm Centerline rotor | Lazada Singapore


Yes, I got the Shimano Deore XT M8000 Crankset 1x11 Speed Chain Wheel crank with Deckas 96BCD 38T, I then found a 44T chainring for the 96BCD (not common); Ideally, I would have liked a 42mm actually.

Last edited by pinholecam; 01-20-21 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 01-21-21, 07:47 PM
  #66  
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Grateful as i realised its harder than expected

Hi Pinholecam,

Ok I will check with Bike Stop about the brakes once the frame comes in. I also asked the seller on Lazada if they include the IS adapter but no response so far.

Meanwhile, I have ordered the Shimano Deore XT 8000 with 38T - it was much harder and more expensive than i thought. I have not ordered the third party crank - if you like I can order the 42T and we can do a swop (I found what i thought was a good aftermarket deckas equivalent crank with 96 BCD and compatible with Deore XT 8000 in 42T) in case you still thinking about it.

just to say thanks again for being so helpful with my build - I never thought i will ever build up a bike as a project and it has been much harder and daunting than expected (I admittedly have poor knowledge of different bike parts, manufacturers and its pros and cons) but after seeing my son really enjoy off-road bike rides i want to really finish this bike so we can have some quality family time.

For your Anerican MTB Race wheelset it a MTB wheelset? I believe your wheelset is no longer in production and can't find the specs to compare the wheesets I am considering a few - Thesis seems to have glowing reviews but out of stock, Mavic All Road SL + 650B and Hunts Adventure Sport which is only available late April. If you have any recommendations will be most grateful.


Yes, I got the Shimano Deore XT M8000 Crankset 1x11 Speed Chain Wheel crank with Deckas 96BCD 38T, I then found a 44T chainring for the 96BCD (not common); Ideally, I would have liked a 42mm actually.
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Old 01-24-21, 05:22 PM
  #67  
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Hi Pinholecam,

Based on your setup, is 45 - 50mm stem too short? Will it make the steering too twitchy?
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Old 01-24-21, 11:06 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Hi Pinholecam,

Based on your setup, is 45 - 50mm stem too short? Will it make the steering too twitchy?
Ideally, I should be using a 15" bike, and the smallest ChangeBike 650B is 17".
So if you can, do go for the more typical stem lengths.

That said, the bike has a long top tube (modern mtb style) and short stems are typically used as well.


Steering reaction is certainly fast with the 45mm stem on the road, but one gets used to it after hopping on the bike for a while.
However, on trails, the more nimble handling comes into its own (and is very welcome )
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Old 01-25-21, 02:48 AM
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Thanks Pinholecam!

I am ordering wheelsets but I am lost! They are asking me for wheel axle sizes. Not sure how to choose? Should I use MTB or Road bike?

MTB:
F: 15mm X 110mm boost, 15 x 110mm non-boost, 9 x 110mm boost QR (XC wide only)
R: 12mm x 148mm boost, 12 x 142mm non-boost, 9 x 142mm boost QR (XC wide only)

Road:
F: 12mm through axle, 15mm through axle, or QR
R: 12mm X 142mm through axle, 12 X 135mm through axle, or QR
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Old 01-25-21, 05:14 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
Ideally, I should be using a 15" bike, and the smallest ChangeBike 650B is 17".
So if you can, do go for the more typical stem lengths.

That said, the bike has a long top tube (modern mtb style) and short stems are typically used as well.


Steering reaction is certainly fast with the 45mm stem on the road, but one gets used to it after hopping on the bike for a while.
However, on trails, the more nimble handling comes into its own (and is very welcome )
Did I miss photos of your titanium breakaway?
Any info on where you got the frame, specs, etc
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Old 01-25-21, 06:13 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Thanks Pinholecam!

I am ordering wheelsets but I am lost! They are asking me for wheel axle sizes. Not sure how to choose? Should I use MTB or Road bike?

MTB:
F: 15mm X 110mm boost, 15 x 110mm non-boost, 9 x 110mm boost QR (XC wide only)
R: 12mm x 148mm boost, 12 x 142mm non-boost, 9 x 142mm boost QR (XC wide only)

Road:
F: 12mm through axle, 15mm through axle, or QR
R: 12mm X 142mm through axle, 12 X 135mm through axle, or QR

I am using American Classic Wide Lighting (non-boost) 650b.
Non-boost for sure.
The frame is QR for the rear, so I would think it makes more sense to get a QR fork as well.
IIRC, its front 100mm, rear 135mm. (for the rear, pls double check with the seller... their response is usually very good)
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Old 01-25-21, 06:18 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by anga View Post
Did I miss photos of your titanium breakaway?
Any info on where you got the frame, specs, etc

You can check out the details here.
Quest for N=1 Waltly Custom Titanium breakaway all road bike




Other readings
https://mamilmusings.com/waltly-titanium-frames-review

Snakes that Bite: Waltly Titanium Coupler Travel Bike
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Old 01-25-21, 07:50 AM
  #73  
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Thanks
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Old 01-25-21, 08:33 AM
  #74  
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Thanks for replying

Ok, I really have to go read up the difference as I am still sorting out the delivery of the frame with the seller on Carousell. I believe your Kinesis fork QR (u bottom vs a hole) right?

Originally Posted by pinholecam View Post
I am using American Classic Wide Lighting (non-boost) 650b.
Non-boost for sure.
The frame is QR for the rear, so I would think it makes more sense to get a QR fork as well.
IIRC, its front 100mm, rear 135mm. (for the rear, pls double check with the seller... their response is usually very good)
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Old 01-25-21, 06:42 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Freem@n View Post
Ok, I really have to go read up the difference as I am still sorting out the delivery of the frame with the seller on Carousell. I believe your Kinesis fork QR (u bottom vs a hole) right?

Correct. It was the Kinesis QR version of the fork.
Do note that if you want a more upright riding position, you might want to consider a fork that has longer Axel/Crown length. There are some carbon forks that are sold as "MTB carbon forks" which have a longer axel/crown length (as suspension forks are longer too)
That said, since you are taller, you can just opt for a stem with a raise angle.
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