Trying to decide on my next folder and looking for input. My apologies for the long winded post and preamble.

Got into the folder gig a year ago and bought a Mariner D8 for the wife and a MU D8 for me, as we are RV’ers and wanted something compact and portable. Decided to give the Mariner to my (adult) daughter, the MU D8 to my wife and get something a bit more speedy, performance oriented for me. I have a Specialized Tarmac Comp but I’m just not comfortable with my neck position on it so it sits in my stationary trainer for shorter workout sessions.
I’m turning 64 and push the bike hard but I’m not going to ride a century, enter races or anything like that. I am 5’10”, 180lbs and fit for my age. I live in Richmond B.C. which is flat and lots of designated bike paths. When we travel, the terrain changes of course but 80-90% of my riding is flat and paved.

Bikes I am considering so far are:
New - Tern Verge D9 $900 usd
Used - Dahon Speed Pro TT $600 usd, mint. Likely will sell around $500
Used - Dahon MU SL $500 usd mint. Likely sell for a bit less.

Two of the above have the 451 wheel set. The Speed Pro TT however intrigues me. Mixed reviews on the bike I understand, and replacement parts are a problem, but I hear it’s fast.
I just stumbled on a used late model Dahon MU SL10 and my limited research so far looks very positive.
(As an aside, Dahon and their continuous model turnover is frustrating. Hard to keep track of them all.)

As of now I’m leaning towards one of the 451 bikes. Big jump in price to move up to a new Verge P10 and disc brakes however I’ve never had disc brakes so can’t comment on the cost/benefit.

I’ve checked out Pacific Cycles Reach with the 451’s but now we’re talking $2500 usd plus duty, freight etc. and can’t see or ride one before deciding.

I’ve looked at BF but I do like a compact fold and again, its pushing beyond what I want to pay for a folder.

I’ve also considered upgrading the components on the MU D8 and decided it would be more cost effective to just get another bike.

Does my preference for 451 wheels make sense?

Comments on the three bikes I’m looking at, or anything else under $1000 usd price range?

Thanks!

There is an airnimal chameleon for sale in the folding section for close to your target price. If it is speed that you crave then that is what the bike was designed for. Cousin of the Pacific Reach and I've had one for 2 years now.

Have you seen a Dahon Hammerhead? I owned one for many years and love it. It is fast. There is a link to a NOS.
https://www.thorusa.com/accessories/oneoff.htm

451 rolls better and is faster than 406.
I've had both and even the same bike converted from 406 to 451.
The main downside to me with 451 is tire choice.
Its mainly limited to narrow width tires (road orientated).
406 is better if you are considering the occasional simple gravel/trail riding

Some of the options mentioned are not as convenient in the fold/folded (eg. BF, Airnimal), but they are good in other respects (eg. stiffer, faster, larger wheels)

Xootr Swift
I would buy the used Xootr that’s on Vancouver Craigslist. (Seller spelled it as “Xooter”). I bought mine off CL last month and couldn’t be happier.

I can't speak for the BF, but can say as an owner of a 20-inch Dahon and the 24-inch Airnimal that they are equal in convenience in terms of mass transit portability. I take both in suitcases for air travel and on the commuter rail when working in Boston. On the rail I have to pop the quick release front tire off- not seeing that as an issue and I keep it with me in the overhead storage with my helmet (hard to steal a bike with one tire). Same space in the car trunk. Neither fold like a Brompton, but both get the job done in bringing the bike wherever you want to travel.

Thanks for the replies.

The Airnimal is a great suggestion. Pretty old post but it appears its still for sale. A long way from me, and no chance to ride it though.

The Xootr Swift is nice and close. Not as compact but I suppose I could live with that. I don't commute but I do need to fold it and put in my trailer or pickup box. Ideally I'd have a more conventional fold, but really like the idea of a upgradable bike and full length wheel base. Can 451 wheels be fitted?

Any comments on the Dahon MU SL?

Do note the handlebar stem come off too. I throw (well, carefully place) it in the back of vehicles all the time. It’s not compact, but with today’s cars’ trunk space, it’s “good enough”.

Do you know if 451 wheels fit if I ever wanted to go that route?

dahon mu sl is a major folding bike. spins really fast and can keep up with any road on peloton

451's fit easily, I had them on my Xootr for a period of time.

I also still have the Airnimal listed on this site. It continues to hang in my shop in the same condition as the pictures.

Check out Thor's garage sale - it changes frequently and he often has some fast stuff at great prices. Garage Sale

In my opinion, all 20” bikes will have similar rides and the difference between 406 and 451 is negotiable. I do start to notice a difference between 24” and 20”. Terns eclipse series has 26” wheels and they even have a sub $1,000 model new. If you do buy a used Tern, make sure it wasn’t included in the recall a few years ago.

For 20” wheels, I think the choice of tire has the most impact on speed. Kojacks or thinner will be decently fast, but the trade off is your ride will be more bumpy. The Mu Sl likely comes such with thinner racing tires.

The only 20” bike that rides differently is the xootr swift, which feels much stiffer in a good way since there is no hinge in the center tube. I also find the handlebars flex far less than Dahons which have a hinged joint. Would definitely go with swift if you can live with the bigger fold. It gets pretty small if you remove the handlepost and front tire. I believe there are the internet posts about converting them to 451, but you’d also need to get longer reach brakes too.

I beg to differ. I Can't comment on 406 vs. 451 (the only bike with 451s I've ever ridden was a Chinese BSO, and it still was a PoS after I swapped its factory 451s out for a pair of 451 Primo Comets that cost about twice as much as the entire bike was worth when new,) but I could tell you with a decent amount of conviction that my bygone Vybe D7 rode and handled very differently from my Speed D8 or Mu D8.

Heck, even my Mu D8 and my Speed D8 are more or less distinct in the way they go down the road, even with both having identical geometry and componentry, right down to the exact same rims and tires! In fact, if you blindfolded me and towed me behind your vehicle, I could easily tell you which of the two I'm on.

With all due respect, it would be just wrong - let alone unhelpful - to push the notion that "if you've ridden one, you've ridden them all."

As mentioned in my original thread, I have a Mariner D8 and a MU D8. The Mariner is a much more relaxed ride, not nearly as stiffed framed. The MU D8 seems, to me at least, want to be ridden fast, whereas the Mariner wants to poke along and admire the scenery. I can tell the difference for sure.
I haven't yet rode a 451 bike but I've been told by quite a few that the 451's will get me spinning faster.

Just to clarify, I am not looking to race, just to use the bike for more intense riding.

Thanks for all the comments folks. Going to look at the used MU DL10 today. I plan to keep my MU D8 so do like the idea of having two bikes that fold the same for ease of packing in the back of the truck on trips. I've got a packing system now and it works well for when we hit the road. We own an Airstream so the trailer storage is limited...they don't have a huge storage compartment like other trailers, so the pickup box gets filled.

If I don't buy the MU DL10, then I will look at little more closely at the Swift and others mentioned. The budget I've set for myself kind of precludes the Airnimal (but man that bike looks good Bruce).
I'm in no rush, but this MU DL10 came up on CL so thought I'd better have a look.

Thats why I said “in my opinion”. Many of the posters here have other views, and that’s fine. I do believe the op should be less concerned about 406 vs 451 and pay more attention more attention to tire type and width. The op can read the variety of opinions here in the matter and make up his own mind.

When I first began this upgrade quest I was focused on the Speed Pro TT as there was a like new one avail in my area and I’d read good things about the bike. Wasn’t looking at 451 wheels at all. Then I read about parts avail issues on that bike. I spoke to my LBS mechanic, who’s opinion I value, and he said stay away from that bike and have a look at the Verge series with the 451’s.
I take all the input gratefully and seriously and eventually form my opinion. I’m extremely analytical (unfortunately).
I might stand pat for a bit, adjust my budget (upwards of course) and look at better bikes.

Two things.

1. It would serve you well to ensure that you're doing this for the right reasons. You said you tend to be extremely analytical going about things, so I'd suggest you give this some more thought and make sure you're not just being pulled in by the sheer attainability of this or that bike, i.e. "can the bike I've already got be made to go faster with a simple tire upgrade [see 2 below] or am I just being pulled in by the allure andthe prospect of a new(-ish) bike?

2. Couldn't agree more with 2b1b. And here's where I'm coming from:

When I first got my own Mu D8 last year, it had a pair of Marathon Racers from the factory. They felt like I was pulling an anchor, compared to how fast my Speed rolled on its Marathon Supremes (and, again, with the exact same drivetrain.) The difference was night and day.

To verify, I put the Racers on the Speed and test rode it, and it, too, lost its speed. So, check out those possibilities first.

The MU Sl is pretty sweet bike and that price is very good if it’s in mint condition. I have one ~2008, its starting to show its age a bit but its still a decent ride. I like the the swift more though and that airnimal in the used section also looks great.

Sounds like you’ve got lots of great options, best of luck!

Looking at the frames, I would say the Tern is the most rigid with it's full rear triangle and hydroformed front. So it gets the power down best and hence fastest. Tern also has nicer folding handles. If you ride in the rain or heavy traffic I would invest in disc brakes. Out alone in the dry on flat land...you'll survive with rim brakes. There's no doubt discs are better but the cost is up to you.

Check the bike friday preloved page on a regular basis. You can find a real deal on a bike that will give you wings. Fridays have no frame hinge and ride just like a full sized bike. The fold is more than adequate for cars/trains and excellent for touring. And nothing is proprietary. You can always call BF and ask to be connected with a local owner to get a test ride - maybe you'll fall in love, and if you don't you can just move on and eliminate them. But if ride matters more than fold to you, you owe it to yourself to at least test ride one.

Well thanks to the suggestions of many of you, and specifically the heads-up from Numerozero that this was available locally, I bought it tonight. One owner, says its all original. It wasn't very clean but 20 minutes took care of that. I managed to get all the scuffs and paint rubs off, only a couple scratches left. I don't like the rack but its there for now. Don't know what these tires are. No markings or letters on them at all and tread goes right down the sidewall to the rim.
Just wish it was silver!

Good taste.

That's a great bike

congrats~~