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Dahon Launch second generation hinge

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Dahon Launch second generation hinge

Old 03-12-24, 11:21 PM
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Just found image, same as in video above, labeled "Archer" and not Launch, perhaps just for foreign market. Notice smooth tube joints, either aluminum and dressed welds, or carbon fiber. Fat seatstays and chainstays near rear dropouts, say carbon to me, but by no means certain. Metal seatstays in past were noticeably tapered.




Better image, I think it's still welded aluminum. Numbers a bit fuzzy, but I think 56/46 chanrings on 5x130mm BCD crank, hollowtech II style. Ooo, notice change in seatstays, curved here, straight above. DOH! Nevermind, this is old style frame hinge:

Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-12-24 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 03-13-24, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Just found image, same as in video above, labeled "Archer" and not Launch, perhaps just for foreign market. Notice smooth tube joints, either aluminum and dressed welds, or carbon fiber. Fat seatstays and chainstays near rear dropouts, say carbon to me, but by no means certain. Metal seatstays in past were noticeably tapered.




Better image, I think it's still welded aluminum. Numbers a bit fuzzy, but I think 56/46 chanrings on 5x130mm BCD crank, hollowtech II style. Ooo, notice change in seatstays, curved here, straight above. DOH! Nevermind, this is old style frame hinge:
These are all international bikes that Dahon has no interest in releasing in North America. The Archer has been available for quite a while. We're a neglected continent...
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Old 03-13-24, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101
These are all international bikes that Dahon has no interest in releasing in North America. The Archer has been available for quite a while. We're a neglected continent...
I believe you. Some of that would make sense, some not. The same bike sold in the USA is higher priced, both for the market, and to price in USA liability, I think, the latter may push the retail price too high. On the other hand, they have aniversary editions that are ridiculously priced, so I think that obviates that argument. The fact is, with the design and tooling already paid for, it makes no sense to not sell a model here, especially if only differing in accessories and not frame design. Selling only a Launch D8 doesn't make sense when they could be selling a D16/18/20 with a 2X crank. The fact that 2X is selling overseas means they understand that megarange 1X is not perfect for all applications, especially 20". The old Formula 16 (2X, discs) didn't sell here because it was 3X the price of a Speed. Same for the TR, although I didn't buy that also because I didn't want IGH. I could see Dahon going up-market in response to competition from Zizzo, Origami, et al, and that Archer looks it, and can succeed in the USA if not ridiculously priced. However, folders may be selling better in countries where mass-transit is far more used than in the USA, folders are really only needed for multi-mode, travel, or stashing under a desk if commuting. Someone on here said the folder market is stagnant, since e-bikes took off.

It probably doesn't matter for me, as my old Speed D7 is serving me well in 14 speed trim, full racks and panniers, thus I like what may be additional fatigue strength of chrome-moly steel over aluminum. I think the only reason I would pop for a new bike would be for disc brakes, as something like an Origami disc bike may not be that much more money than swapping my 74mm fork for a 100mm one with disc mounts, and a new disc-equipped front wheel, caliper, and lever. I could get by with only a disc on the front.

It'll be interesting to see what Dahon does.

On that Archer, the smoothed welds, has Dahon been doing that for several years, or is that new for 2024?
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Old 03-13-24, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
... I like what may be additional fatigue strength of chrome-moly steel over aluminum. I think the only reason I would pop for a new bike would be for disc brakes, as something like an Origami disc bike may not be that much more money than swapping my 74mm fork for a 100mm one with disc mounts, and a new disc-equipped front wheel, caliper, and lever. I could get by with only a disc on the front.

...
Yeap. I am slowly transitioning to steel on folders. My FSIR Spin 5 may be my last Al-alloy folder.

Modern hydraulic disc brakes are nice, but they are more expensive, heavier and require beefier wheels. You, of course, know this, but as much as I like disc, I don't forget those three negative factors. I can easily lock the wheels with rim brakes on my 20" and 16" wheel bikes.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Yeap. I am slowly transitioning to steel on folders. My FSIR Spin 5 may be my last Al-alloy folder.

Modern hydraulic disc brakes are nice, but they are more expensive, heavier and require beefier wheels. You, of course, know this, but as much as I like disc, I don't forget those three negative factors. I can easily lock the wheels with rim brakes on my 20" and 16" wheel bikes.
I was fine for rim brakes for many decades, on flat land, and in hilly regions but not running the big hills. But in recent years, I do the hills because the climbing while standing is good workout for my stomach muscles (I'm overweight, need to loose stomach fat), in addition to aerobic. (I always used to spin up hills in lowest gear, easy on my knees, only in recent years have I learned to climb out of the saddle, high force, but my legs being straighter, no knee problems.) But that means going down those hills, I have enough braking power with rim brakes (barely*) but man it heats up those little 20" rims, occasionally I've popped a spoke due to rim expansion; Back in my road-race bike days, I'd fly down those hills, but these days I try to go a bit slower, especially the more twitchy steering on 20", and there are curves. Pannier weight forward of the steer axis has calmed the steering. Also, the rims are almost shot, concaved sidewalls, about 10 years life, not bad, but otherwise the wheel is fine.

* I can't lock the wheels on pavement; The aluminum rims polish really smooth, and the brake pads can glaze, I use cartridge pads so can easily slide out, poke out any tiny aluminum bits, clean and file the surface, put back.

Discs would be nice.

Are you moving toward steel for better ride (steel allows more flex), or because you had a fatigue failure with an aluminum frame? Bike Friday, Brompton, Surley, et al, are still committed to 4130 chrome moly steel, but it's getting to be harder to find that. Although I think in recent decades, there has been a resurgence in steel frames. I know it was touted for world-touring folks, not just for durability, but ability to be repaired in third world nations, but I would guess that aluminum welding has also become more common, at least if they have electricity and not just limited to gas-welding. My Cannondale was a "premium" aluminum frame 35 years ago; Now, some of the cheapest bikes are all aluminum frames.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-13-24 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 03-13-24, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I believe you. Some of that would make sense, some not. The same bike sold in the USA is higher priced, both for the market, and to price in USA liability, I think, the latter may push the retail price too high. On the other hand, they have aniversary editions that are ridiculously priced, so I think that obviates that argument. The fact is, with the design and tooling already paid for, it makes no sense to not sell a model here, especially if only differing in accessories and not frame design. Selling only a Launch D8 doesn't make sense when they could be selling a D16/18/20 with a 2X crank. The fact that 2X is selling overseas means they understand that megarange 1X is not perfect for all applications, especially 20". The old Formula 16 (2X, discs) didn't sell here because it was 3X the price of a Speed. Same for the TR, although I didn't buy that also because I didn't want IGH. I could see Dahon going up-market in response to competition from Zizzo, Origami, et al, and that Archer looks it, and can succeed in the USA if not ridiculously priced. However, folders may be selling better in countries where mass-transit is far more used than in the USA, folders are really only needed for multi-mode, travel, or stashing under a desk if commuting. Someone on here said the folder market is stagnant, since e-bikes took off.

It probably doesn't matter for me, as my old Speed D7 is serving me well in 14 speed trim, full racks and panniers, thus I like what may be additional fatigue strength of chrome-moly steel over aluminum. I think the only reason I would pop for a new bike would be for disc brakes, as something like an Origami disc bike may not be that much more money than swapping my 74mm fork for a 100mm one with disc mounts, and a new disc-equipped front wheel, caliper, and lever. I could get by with only a disc on the front.

It'll be interesting to see what Dahon does.

On that Archer, the smoothed welds, has Dahon been doing that for several years, or is that new for 2024?
Here's the Dahon EU site, showing the 2021 Dahon Archer. Regardless of their selling practices making sense, it's a common practice to sell anniversary editions here in North America, and everything else (including the anniversary editions) everywhere else...

https://eu.dahon.com/bikes/archer-p8/
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Old 03-13-24, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101
Here's the Dahon EU site, showing the 2021 Dahon Archer. Regardless of their selling practices making sense, it's a common practice to sell anniversary editions here in North America, and everything else (including the anniversary editions) everywhere else...

https://eu.dahon.com/bikes/archer-p8/
Thanks for that. I'm astonished the link came up and stayed stable, every other Dahon webpage, flashes for a second, then goes to the Dahon USA homepage. I see it's in archive (old model), but still interesting that it's the chrome-moly frame as late as 2021. Plus it has a front derailleur bracket, so a much easier upgrade to 2X. Wow, current model year is still selling the Speed D8, same frame, and with FD bracket and Deltech. But no disc brakes (I think, the Archer page won't come up now, just churns). The Launch appears to have the new hinge jaws, I think (can't zoom up), but not the smoothed welds of the new Archer shown at the Taipei show.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-13-24 at 09:29 PM.
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