juan162

I think a minibike would have a chance to become popular if it had couplings that allowed it to fit in an airport legal bag, something that a regular sized bike with couplings couldn't do. While it would definitely be a niche product, I think it would be a big enough niche that someone could make a little bit of money off of it.

14R 

I know, as a fact, from a recent conversation at a barbecue, that if a mini bike can fit in airport legal bag AND is a regular size bike replacement, at least 10 of my friends would get at least one (some would get more than one to have the significant other covered). The budget was <US$500.00 with room for upgrades.

This conversation was actually as a potential business plan.

Rafael

MnHPVA Guy

Long time custom framebuilder Terry Osell has built several Mini Bikes. Non folders with conventional frames and 406 or 349 wheels. I may be riding with him tomorrow, in which case I'll get photos and ask what he charges.

I suggest you go to https://www.hadland.me.uk/page15.html and scroll down to;
The Velocio approach - medium diameter balloon tyres
A photo of one of Velocio's bikes can be seen at
https://www.ville-carpentras.fr/cps/i...de/velocio.jpg

There are now 3 tires available that are suitable for such a bike. Wide, yet supple enough to roll easily with 35 psi. Schwalbe's 406-60 Big Apple, the very light Primo Comet 406-56 Red Label and the featherweight KHE Premium Folder 406-54.

The Rene Herse Demountables were very low tech. I think anyone with a bit of skill would be able to replicate the idea. Jane is interested in having me build a couple of small wheel demountables, so we could fit two bikes in the trunk of our Chevy Prism (Toyota Corolla with different badges.) It's been a couple of decades since I built a non-recumbent, so this sounds like fun. My last bike, a fat tired, small wheeled recumbent weighs 23.5 lbs with Big Apples so I think I could get a fat tired Mini under 20 lbs as a one piece or 21.5 as a demountable.

Instead of a long steerer, I'd prefer long blades. I do have a couple of very high quality, new 406 forks with 16" steerers if anyone wants to try that approach. I don't think they would take a really fat tire though.

14R 

Worst case scenario, someone with a nice CAD file and time can go thru this list and find one friendly soul willing to take the project...

MnHPVA Guy

That list is somewhat obsolete, and only lists a small fraction of the builders in this country.

For only guy on the list that I know of doing anything like you want, the link is wrong.
https://www.gaerlan.com/

Check out his https://www.gaerlan.com/bikes/gotravel/gotravel.htm

Bacciagalupe

*cough* That's what these folks think *cough*

And this guy, too

Given their high levels of stiffness, adjustability and customizability, I'm not aware of any functional difference between most Bike Fridays, Moultons and even the Swift than a minibike. (I'm sure Moulton will claim, for example, that there is no performance difference between a Bridgestone Fixed-Frame and a Bridgestone Separatable.) The differences are mostly aesthetic, and that a minibike with a more traditional diamond frame will take longer to pack.

14R 

nah...those are folders, not Mini bikes (lol)

Bacciagalupe

Actually, the Air Friday / Air Glides and the Moultons are separatables, you can't fold 'em at all....

spambait11

Air Fridays and Air Glides do fold at the bottom bracket area. The Ti seatpost beam has to be removed though.

invisiblehand

I did not see it mentioned in the thread, but there is a custom mini-bike with S&S couplers ...

https://www.sandsmachine.com/a_rod_r1.htm

14R 

The image of that bike, about 18 months ago, was the reason I bought my first folder and decided to join this forum.

juan162

I think that the aesthetic difference is a big one...a minibike still has the look of a traditional road bike...something that would really appeal to traditional road bike riders.

Juan

LittlePixel

Has anyone here actually ridden a Dahon Hammerhead? - this being the only 'commercial' bike in the west that fits the mini-bike ideal...

Fear&Trembling

There is a guy on the Dahon forum who converted his Hammerhead to a single-speed. He has posted extensively on the bike.

Bacciagalupe

H'm, you've got a point there. Although I think it'd have to have a really low weight to appeal to the Weenie Brigade.

I have noticed a dearth of reviews of the Hammerhead, and have yet to see one in person....

MnHPVA Guy

I talked to Terry Osell yesterday, and he says he's been selling his MiniBikes for $850. I'll try to get some photos tomorrow.

14R 

If the frame is steel (and accepts S&S couplings) he may become richer than Bill Gates (lol)

I want one!

MnHPVA Guy

At $850 for a complete bike with a custom frame he would have to build one every hour to make good money at it. BTW the tubing he's using for these is Columbus. The ones he's built so far have very short rear stays. But he'll use any length stays you prefer.

As far as the S&S, Steve won't sell Terry the couplings because he doesn't carry Steve's minimum $1,000,000 liability insurance. Not a problem though as Terry is less than 1/2 a mile from Curt Goodrich's shop. I'll ask Curt what he charges to install them. He might do these a bit cheaper than usual as there won't be any paint on the frame. Sandblasting is his least favorite part of framebuilding.

At one point I was going to be an S&S installer, working as a subcontractor for a friend who's shop is heavily insured. But when Curt said he had installed hundreds of them, before moving back to Minnesota to build Rivendells, it didn't make much sense.

14R 

He can soon find someone to do the hard work and become the supervisor of 3 or more frames being done at the same time...

I just closed a deal on a S-type brompton, so my money for bikes is currently US$0.00. Maybe next week I'll be able to re-address this.

invisiblehand

That is reasonable. Figure another $400 for the couplers--that appears to be the standard price--plus another $250 for the case and such. Assuming that the components are good, $1500 for a custom travel bike is competitive with Bike Friday and top of the line Swift Folders.

I understand that a lot of members of the forum like the 20" wheels on folders: I think that they are more than acceptable too. But in my humble opinion, holding tire width constant, riding with larger wheels is still superior for the longer rides we often take. We both thought that the Airnimals hit a nice balance between the two with the 24" (ERTO 520) tires and enjoyed the ride. However, we concluded (1) that steel bikes are better--comfort and durability--for our purposes and (2) we wanted a bigger tire selection than the 24" tire affords since we ride over so many surfaces.

Oswell's custom bike offers an intriguing solution. Presummably, Mr. Oswell could design a bike that could fit both ERTO 507 and 520 wheels. The 507 size is common for BMX. So a lot of wide tires are offered including the Schwalbe Marathon. The 520 size is used by Terry bicycles such that a lot of road tires are offered. Bot sets of small wheels would make the bike easier to store, transport and pack.

Anyway, where can we find out more about Mr. Oswell and his bike? I did a simple websearch and found pages that mention him; but no website dedicated to him.

One last thought: The case might be less expensive since the smaller wheels might fit in regularly available suitcase. Although a quick websearch does not reveal a 24" x 24" suitcase.

MnHPVA Guy

That is wrong on so many levels, it's hard to know where to start.

" He can soon find someone"
Do you know of even one competent framebuilder looking to give up his independence? Much less 3. Rivendell's been looking for a 2nd builder for a couple of years, so they can reduce their long waiting list and start making lugged tandems. And they're looking nationwide. (Admittedly you set the bar a bit higher when your frames start at $2500 than you would when a whole bike is sold for $850.)

"someone to do the hard work and become the supervisor"
If you don't realize the supervisor is the hardest worker on the team, either you've never been one, or you weren't a very good one.

"become the supervisor of 3 or more"
Terry, myself and several of our friends all agree that the best thing about being semi-retired/self-employed is no longer being responsible for the work and behavior of others.

"3 or more frames being done at the same time"
Do you know any framebuilders? I know dozens personally and hundreds through the internet. They are creative sorts who custom build each frame to suit the customer. That's what separates them from factory workers.

There are dozens of stories of successful framebuilders who crashed and burned when they decided to expand, hire people and go into limited production.

In our circle of friends, "semi-retired/self-employed" means you work when the weather's bad and ride when it's nice. We make a little money doing things we enjoy, but the money isn't the main goal. At a certain age you start to realize that time is worth more than money. Terry is 65 years old, and financially set for life. Not rich, but with all he needs for a lifestyle he enjoys.

These days he builds frames for the fun of it. At $850 for a complete bike, he's not making much more than minimum wage. BTW that price includes an Imron paint job that would cost about $200 if you brought a frame to him.

spambait11

You can't find him on the web because his name is Osell, not Oswell.

MnHPVA Guy knows his stuff. His recumbent and bike building knowledge and tips are always excellent. I'm just surprised that he's looking into uprights nowadays (albeit a Raleigh 20); I guess his love for older English bikes has gotten the better of him!

And Curt Goodrich frames? Man oh man... I wish I were "financially set for life."

MnHPVA Guy

Who's dumb enough to hold tire width constant when reducing diameter? Besides people building bikes with 520 wheels for adults that is.

But only one good one, the Big Apple.

A lot? A few, and none I'd put under a rider much bigger than a child.

It's not just that there are so many tires in 406 but that there are better tires.

If we're talking about bikes that aren't Mini AND dont fold, aren't you getting way OT?

Osell, not that getting the spelling right will Google you much more. He's computer illiterate.

He learned framebuilding over 30 years ago, from the father of modern framebuilding, Cecil Behringer. He's built hundreds of frames but is best known for his tandems. About 12 years ago I got him hooked on recumbents and he's built mostly those since. He has a cult following around here. Many people who would never consider a recumbent had to have one when he started building them. If he took up tatooing, there'd be boomers all over MN and WI with tats.

When building lugless, he is known for his oversized, perfectly formed fillets. https://bikesmithdesign.com/Paul/BlueFront.jpg

14R 

Thank you for your contribution MnHPVA Guy. I never worked as a supervisor, I don't know any frame builder and putting together business plans is not my field of interest. I will limit myself to the other end of the frame building business and, as the consumer, just continue working hard to keep the money flow so I can buy whatever I want (including a Mini Bike if that's the case).

Rafael

trentschler

Were you able to get some photos? I'd love to see them.