I think Brommies weight may be off a bit. On my scale my C3 Brommie sans everything (no rack, fenders, nothing) was ~26.4lbs (11.7kg). On the same exact scale my MercGT6 with dynamo, racks, fenders, dual chainring, etc. was 29.7lbs. That is only a 3.3 lb difference. Don't get hung on absolute numbers here but look at the relative weights. So unless my scale has a significant variation (possible of course but not likely) between 26 and 29 lbs a basic Merc should be pretty light.

There was a posting of a Steve Parry Merc with Titanium Brompton parts a while back. Given his experience, that would suggest that there is a significant weight savings with the Aluminum frame.

We all know the basic arguments between choosing a steel and aluminum frame bike. In fact it has been discussed in this thread. So there should be little surprise that using an aluminum frame sheds quite a bit of weight relative to the Brompton. It would be far more surprising if the reverse was true.

Here is the old post. It does not report the weight.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ferrerid=31812

I am not tempted to be caught up in the "Great Weight Debate." I grew up in an earilier era (the late 1960's and 1970"s) where there was not a alunimun-or any other exotic-frame to be found anywhere where I lived or rode. The simple means of lightening up the frame (or rather the bike itself) was not to place alot of unnecessary accessory junk on the bike, period. I did place an accessory like bike lights or fenders on if needed at the time I rode. But I did not keep it on if it was not needed. And the older I got, the more I appreciated the durability and shock dampening features of the steel frame which is the only one I still buy-and still apply what I learned on my earlier bikes.

In practice, I agree with your philosophy. That is, my main ride at the moment is a steel Jamis Nova with smooth touring tires (Panaracer 32C). There is a carbon fiber fork but with the few extra things added for emergencies and the 36 spoke rims, it isn't a light bike. But it is a comfortable bike over a lot of surfaces and reasonably quick.

I don't have a lot of experience with folding bikes. But we have been borrowing a buddy's old Brompton for a while and just picked up a lightly used Merc (still on its way but it did make it to the US Saturday). So far our experience is that weight matters more with a folding bike for the simple reason that it is carried more (tested by adding a substracting things from the Brompton). I am not sure whether there is any practical difference between 24 and 26 pounds ... we will find out soon. Like anything else, I expect there to be diminishing returns. Although it will be interesting to hear my wife's opinions relative to mine; she is 8 inches shorter and about 80-90 pounds lighter. (I am 6' and ~195 lbs)

Although I do not think that it is practical for most people to add and subtract components such as fenders when the need arises, I agree that a pound or two should be relatively low on the priority list.

You know it seems like a pound may not seem like much but truly if you are carrying it all day long it does add up. I am not a small guy but at the end of the day I notice the difference between a 5 and 6 pound laptop.

I can say that on the road I don’t notice the difference as much between a 24 and 26 pound bike unless there is a big difference in the wheel weight. There weight is much more detrimental.

If I am constantly picking the bike up and moving it then I definitely like to go lighter. That is why most of my accessories are quick release. I can quickly and easily fit my bike up for its intended purpose (specifically I am talking about my Swift more than my Merc here).

Also keep in mind that a one pound increase on a 25lb bike is a much greater percentage increase on a bike that weighs 30lbs. I prefer to determine the weight how I want to build it out rather than start with a pig of a bike and figure out how to put it on a diet to save some weight.

Of course the smaller you are the more the weight will be a factor in general. I am not going to obsess about grams but I’ve traveled enough to definitely take notice when there is a pound or more difference in the weight and to see if I am getting something for that pound that I actually value like a light, better seat or fenders. This is especially true when I am on a plane. Every pound in overweight luggage charges can add up in a hurry.

Those are some good points Waveshrdr.

Has anyone ever given any thought to a front suspension Brompton/Merc? I followed a thread regarding front suspension for a Bike Friday and saw the following discussed. According to their add, they can custom make suspension forks for wheels 12" through 700c.

https://www.actiontec.us/proshock.htm

Would it work with the folding handlebar stem?

I don't have a lot of experience with folding bikes. But we have been borrowing a buddy's old Brompton for a while and just picked up a lightly used Merc (still on its way but it did make it to the US Saturday). So far our experience is that weight matters more with a folding bike for the simple reason that it is carried more (tested by adding a substracting things from the Brompton). I am not sure whether there is any practical difference between 24 and 26 pounds ... we will find out soon. Like anything else, I expect there to be diminishing returns. Although it will be interesting to hear my wife's opinions relative to mine; she is 8 inches shorter and about 80-90 pounds lighter. (I am 6' and ~195 lbs). -invisiblehand

Of course the smaller you are the more the weight will be a factor in general. -Wavshrdr

I guess I am more like your wife's weight and meausement than yours, invisiblehand. I would be rather suprised if her opinion is vastly different than my experience on folders and the weight issue. As far as how much a pound or two makes a difference by adding or subtracting accessories, my Dahon came with everything but the kitchen sink which I did not bother to remove since I wanted it to be an emergency vehicle capable of riding in any sort of weather. The Brompton CE3 was selected because it lacked the accessories upfront and I was not sure what I wanted or needed at the time except for the folding pedal. It turned out that I tended to carry the Brompton onboard trains and buses alot more than the Dahon and the strain and resulting getting tired of doing all the lifting and carrying the bike as well as maneuvering the bike around to avoid all the things cluttering the aisles could be greatly lessen at the loss of even a few pounds that the "stripped down" Brompton offered. I do agree wholeheartly on keeping the bike free of most things usually placed on it since I actually put this belief in practice every time I take any of my folders on any type of public transit, rather than a private car or truck.

I imagine it could with a little work. I think that the suspension travel might be too much though. I'd want to be careful I didn't risk any pedal strikes when the front fork was fully collapsed. My Merc has the front suspension handlebar post and it serves me quite well AND I don't lose any ground clearance under compression.

I have seen a Brompton with suspension forks. It may have been an SP. Not sure how much work would be involved though. There is always the Pantour hub, but opinions vary about the gizmo.

It does, but just not very much; the difference in weight between a Merc and Brompton shorn of their accessories is slim.

On the Brompton Forum it was suggested that the Merc had steel forks / rear triangle. I do not know if this is correct, but if it is verified, it would explain a lot.

The used Merc arrived in the mail yesterday. The woman never rode the bike. Apparently she bought the bike for commuting but immediately got another job that did not require a bicycle. Given the condition of the bike, I believe her.

I had to adjust the brakes and SA hub. Otherwise, everything looked fine. The standard seatpost is too small for me and my knee is still giving me problems. So I did not ride it far but the boss took it for a longer spin. Her experience was positive. At least over the course of an hour ride, other than the shifter, she didn't feel that there was any difference between the Brompton and Merc. As I mentioned earlier, neither of us cares for the Brompton thumb shifter.

I also spent some time comparing the Brompton's and Merc's weight. The only scale in the house is analog. So comparing it to a 3 speed Brompton with the standard handlebar--no fenders nor rear rack--the Merc was the same weight with the rear rack and front carrier rack (no bag). Just to be clear, I removed the Merc's fenders, air pump, dynamo, and lights. I left the bell and kickstand on as a margin of error.

We are going to ride this weekend to better assess the bikes.

Sounds like you might have imported it from the UK. Anyway, I hope you like it, and look forward to reading of your feelings about it. I'd have left the fenders (mudguards) on, but then we get the odd wet day here. They weigh next to nothing at all, but work VERY well on a wet day. I don't really like to arrive somewhere with a muddy stripe up my front and back, and that's exactly what running without mudguards would mean here about one day in every five.

Our impressions of the Merc in a nutshell ...

1) The brakes are awful. It appears that the Merc has the old pre-2000 Brompton brakes; a simple side-pull model. Newer Bromptons have a dual-pivot design which function better (this might be an upgrade over the standard Brompton model--can someone else clarify?). Note that WAVESHRDR's GT6 has v-brakes ... so the above statement is not applicable to his model.

2) Like some other Brompton users--judging from various postings--we have some problems preventing the seatpost from slipping. QUESTION: How tight can I adjust the quick release without creating other problems?

3) The gear range. My wife ran into a few problems at the lower end with some of the hills in the area. I on the other hand--even with the tender patella tendon--could top out the gears on a slight downhill. According to the specifications, the chainring has 52 teeth. So one could increase the chainring size but there are obvious limits. The GT6 would address issues at the lower end.

From our simple comparisons and casual reading, issues #2 and #3 are applicable to all of these Brompton/Merc folders.

4) Given the size, the bike is fairly comfortable. I still can't ride it for more than 20-30 minutes (see the above reference to my knee); but my wife is happy with it on hour- to two-hour-long rides. Also, there is very little flexing of the frame. The handlebar, however, does flex a lot.

Overall, the bike is a great commuter. We are still debating its qualities as a light touring bike. Two things that prevent us from giving it the "double-thumbs-up" in that area are its limited gear range and limited choice of tires.

Shedding the rear rack and kickstand lightens the bike considerably. However, to keep the Brompton neatly folded, the rear tire and frame need to be held simultaneously. Consequently, my wife still has a difficult time porting it around by hand. Going up and down steps in the Metro are problematic situations for her. So loosing a few more pounds--time for an aluminum fork & rear triangle since the titanium option is expensive ...--and/or finding a way to better secure the fold while carrying the bike would be useful.

Question for WAVESHRDR: How high is your handlebar on the GT6 relative to a standard M-type Brompton? How adjustable is the GT6 handlebar height-wise? (can you raise it one inch above and one inch below the M-type?)

Last but not least, getting a GT6 from Merc is a little more than 500 British pounds excluding shipping. But from our experience, it would seem to be worth the extra money. Note that the GT6 also has a better BB.

Maybe there is some reason the Merc folks didn't think an aluminum fork or rear triangle was a good idea, even though they were willing to make an aluminum frame.

I'm really thinking of getting one of these models. I'm not crazy about the handlebars, but they don't really seem to be selling the GT6 yet, unless anyone's heard differently (and I probably can't afford it, nor do I need 6 gears). Too bad about the poor brakes though. I wonder if they can be swapped out for better ones? I suppose Koolstop salmon brake feet would help.

The brakes are dire. I've been saying so here for a while. They are almost dangerous. I can't get Koolstop salmon shoes here though.

That is a good point. We know that aluminum and steel have different properties; especially with respect to low impact loads that occur with high repetition and parts that flex "a lot". However, there are many full size bikes with aluminum forks and rear triangles.

Given everything else written about the bikes, one could presumably buy the upgraded brakes from a local Brompton dealer. I know that the US distributer sells such an upgrade. I read that it costs something like $50-100. If you look online, you can find bike shops--mostly in the UK--that sell the dual caliper brakes.

Regarding the GT6, if you e-mail Merc, you get in contact with an employee named Anita. She can help you with acquiring a new GT6.

Something that I forgot to mention earlier, Anita did write that the development of an 8-speed Merc (Sturmey Archer 8 SP hub) has been delayed due to limited resources.

I have a twenty year old Brompton which started to break just behind the hinge a few years ago. I fixed it in the shed with my stick welder. I would feel very dubious about that same design in aluminium.

We don't need to re-hash the aluminum versus steel debate. There are plenty of websites on the issue that discuss the relative strengths with respect to price, rigidity, strength, durability, and so on. Now that I think about it, there are some fairly recent posts in the "Bringing Merc to the USA" thread.

I have a (potentially) stupid question. Is there a technique to removing a Brompton/Merc seatpost? Or is it supposed to slip right out?

Wait a second ... to remove the seatpost one would remove the saddle adaptor pin and pull the seatpost through the bottom hole. Right?

Yes - I think so. The post looks to be slightly 'belled' at the bottom end. It will need to go out the way you say.

Hey guys and gals. Take a look at this website ...

https://translate.google.com/translat...en-US:official

Invisiblehand: I have been in touch with Anita; back last month she wrote that

>> We are still experimenting with various brands of handlebars and fixings.
>> I do not have any of these versions currently available and it could be a
>> month or so before this is rectified.
>>
>> The standard 3-speed Merc is available and we can despatch to the US.

I took that to mean that the GT6 was currently unavailable but perhaps I misunderstood. Anyhow, I'll pulse them again soon.

Thanks for the advice on brakes!

Invisiblehand- yes, you need to take off the seat from the top and then slide the post out the bottom. Standard Merc brakes are like the crappy (and still available) Brommie brakes that I have repeatedly complained about. Keep in mind that Brommie puts these both front and rear on the C model and on the rear of most of their bikes unless you go with a special order and get the dual pivot on the rear.

Even then the dual pivot Brommie brakes are at best adequate. Swap out the pads on your Merc and you'll see an improvement. Get better levers and cables and you'll see additional improvements as well. This is what I had to do with my C type Brompton; same applies to the Merc...

I have been tinking with the Merc. It fits my wife (5'4", 110 lbs.) well. But I have concluded that I (6', 195 lbs.) need a longer--either the extended or telescoping--seat post.

I played with the saddle adaptor pin by pointing the pin (1) up and forward of the post and (2) up and behind the post. Up and behind the post was not bad; but it wasn't good either. Neither was a good replacement for getting a longer seat post.

To make things worse, I broke the screw inside the saddle adaptor pin during my last adjustment. It doesn't look like I can remove the screw without serious effort. I asked about ordering another pin from Merc and they are going to send me another for free! Is that great service?

Update on GT3 Brakes -

A kind gentleman on this forum has agreed to procure me some Koolstop Salmon pads which are reckoned to make the most of weaker designs of caliper brake. I can't get them here and I eagerly await the delivery of them from the USA. In the mean time, I decided to try oiling the cables after reading Wavshrdr's comments about changing cables for better quality ones. I have to say, oiling the front cable liberally with three in one oil has transformed the performance. I can hardly believe the difference. It has gone from sailing blithely onward on steep hills when I squeeze as hard as I can, to pulling up almost sharply by comparison. Try oiling them, and if yours is like mine, you will be pleased that you did. The difference is especially noticeable on the front brake.

On another issue with the GT3. I advise you to get hold of some proper Brompton 13 gauge spokes. I have had to whip off the tyre and replace four now, in 640 miles of use. I am not particularly heavy at 170 pounds, and I am not built like Tarzan either, so I have to say that Merc's use of the older Brompton spec 14 gauge spoke was a big mistake. Brompton changed to a heavier 13 gauge spoke about 1990, I understand and Merc should do the same for sure. Although I am becoming a dab hand at replacing them, I'm almost on the point of going to see Norman at the South Shields folder shop and asking him if he will be able to hold his nose long enough to rebuild my rear wheel (reference to previous discussion of his dislke of the Merc 'Ripoff'). The only problem with this plan is that I will probably suffer from withdrawl symptoms when I have to leave it there while he's doing it (if he will).