I was wondering who is using internal hubs on their folders and why??

Let me know what type, how long, why are you using over derailleurs, happy you made the switch?

Also anyone tried internal gearing and didn't like it?

Any feedback welcomed

I've tried derailleurs and didn't like them.

I use Rohloff simple the best!!,you don t need to adjust it never like shimano and co

One of the reasons I bought my 2007 Dahon Mu XL was to try out the Nexus redline internal hub. My other four bicycles have a conventional drive system. I like the Nexus. It seems pretty durable to date and shifts very smoothly. The top gear is a little slow for me, but the bottom two gears are excellent for climbing the many hills in the Seattle area.

I have a really cheap Sturmey Archer SRF3 hub.

I have done 3000 miles on it and I'm very pleased with it. The gear range is quite narrow at 177%, but it suits the purpose of the bike which is commuting. I'm retired now and I ride it around town, typically doing 7 - 10 miles a day on it in summer, but it is ridden all year round and it never causes me a problem unless I've had the rear wheel off and misadjusted it.

As supplied the hub is greased and requires only very rare attention - maybe every couple of years or at maybe 2000 miles. However, keen to mess about with things and being fond of old fashioned ways and oil cans, I have drilled the hub casing and fixed up an oil port like they used to have on these hubs before about 1990. I just put a couple of squirts of oil in it now and again.

This hub is quiet and changes are slick. It is very easy to live with.

The real reason I'm using an internal hub on my bike is that that's how it came. But there's a few things I like about it over a derailleur. Since the idea is to have a portable bike, it's nice to to have the derailleur sticking out to catch on things. Also, given some of the peculiarities of my bike, the shifter is on the seat tube. That works fine since the SA hub works best when I stop pedalling, but I think it would be more awkward with a derailleur where I would have to keep the chain moving. I would probably have to move the shifter to the handlebars, which would have it's own set of problems. To me it's a cleaner look, too, and a stronger wheel, which is important when you're a little on the heavy side. My full-sized bike has a derailleur, and I like it fine, but I also really enjoy the IGH on the little bike.

My thoughts.

They work well for 16" wheeled bikes. I have a SA 5 speed and a dualdrive (best and worst of both worlds, I guess).

I've found if you ride in the rain and dirty wet roads, they do get gritty, the seals aren't the best.
If you ride agressively they need more attention.
I've put over 1500 mi on my SA5 since July 07, and thousands on my Dualdrive.

Due to the road grit, I decided to take the SA5 apart, clean it out and regrease it. I've only ever flushed and relubed the dualdrive and it seems to be going stong, I should have stuck with this for the SA5.

This is where the hub totally sucks, It is very tricky to service, and requires very precise adjusments to the cones to get it shifting properly. I'd bet you'd have a hard time finding someone close by that could do it right. I'd hate to even imagine servicing an 8 or 9 speed hub.

They are very hard to find parts for which can leave you stranded. Everything is special order, stock up on axle nuts.

They are heavy and don't offer as good a gear range as a freehub cassette. Slightly less efficient.

If you are a leasurely rider that doesn't put a lot of miles on a bike in a year you will probably never notice the difference.

Personally, I like the cassette gears. I can see what is going on with them, they are easy to repair and adjust. I can clean them more frequently and more easily. No fiddling with stinking chain tension, and you can use quick release hubs. You don't need to readjust the gears everytime you remove the wheel or completely disconnect the shifting system.

I believe for some things internal gears are needed. They are probably the best choice for very small wheeled bikes. If you need a high gear range, something like the dualdrive is a must.

I just don't think they are God's gift to bicycles.

It's give and take either way, there is no perfect solution.

That's basically it. For a derailleur to work well with 16" wheels, you'd need a much bigger chainring than is commonly available.

Also, I think internally geared hubs are better suited to the abuse of the bike being folded and stuck in out-of-the-way places.

I did had it both ways in the past. I had the derailleur equipped road bikes for thirty years after I "graduated" from single speed bikes. These bikes were fine because I rode similiar to Loch's way of riding except for the wet conditions. I rarely went out then on any bike. I ride in a different way now. I purchased an old internal hub three speed bike from England several years ago. I felll in love with the simpicity and reliability of these gears. They are so easy to maintain and to use. I gave away my old road bikes and now exclusively use this type of drivetrain. And I only use folding bikes now. To each his/her own I guess.

I use an internal hub on the Downtube Mini. Works well with the tiny wheels and frequent multi-mode travel. I am happy with the performance.

Ridden 2.5 years with no issues.

I have the SA 8sp on 2 of my bikes. In one, an internal gear broke, somewhere close to 10,000km. If it wasn't for me making a repair, it would have been a write-off/replacement. Since then I have had trouble keeping it lubricated especially in wet weather. Mere mortals can't get hold of the original lube.

Both internal gears and derailer gears have their place.

Would you say the SA 8 speed is more fragile than the 3 speed?

The planet gears are smaller hence easier to break.

The new SA 8sp hub looks bigger; I expect they beefed it up in this department.

I had a SRAM S7 on my Swift Folder for a couple of years before selling that bike. I have a SRAM S7 on my Tikit and it's been there since September or October. It's a great hub for a folder with nice gear range, good shifting, good performance.

I also own two Rohloff hubs, one on a custom light touring bike and one that is going on our tandem. That hub's only real downside is cost. You can buy a very nice derailleur drivetrain for well under half the cost of a Rohloff.

For folders, especially 16" ones, internal hubs make tons of sense. Rear derailleurs tend to put the chain near the ground where they pick up snow, dirt, mud, and other stuff that you don't want in your drivetrain. An internal hub keeps everything cleaner and more reliable.

I use a Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic Two Speed Kick Back Hub with a Coaster Brake on my 1965 Moulton Stowaway-separable not folding. A 36% jump between gears on 16 inch wheels.

An excellent durable and efficient design unfortunately it is no longer made.

I like the Dual Drive but they are only on expensive bikes. The hub I like the most is the SA3 speed and I wish the SA5 was built just as solid. I agree that these hubs are not made for hard riding with the exception of the 3 speed. You'll notice that Sram did not make dual drive using the 5 or 7 speed because they are more fragile, however the Spectro 3 is about durable as they come. I have the Spectro 3 with coaster brake and can't speak more positive about that hub.

I think it's time Sram expand the Dual Drive beyone the 3 speed hub. Could you image if they made a 9 speed dual drive out of the I9 hub ? That would be 81 gears!

Derailleurs pick up a lot of garbage.
The SA5 is a little fussier than the AW's I've used, but I really like its sound.
I don't think this commute would have worked so well with an exo-cog exciter:

And if you use a triple in front, you have 243 gears!

I have a DualDrive on my Bike Friday and I feel like I have the best of both worlds - the wide range of a derailleur plus the ability to shift (the IGH) while stopped. Not having a front derailleur simplifies things somewhat, too.

Many people are happy with 7 and 8 speed IGHs. However, one of my friends experienced premature failure on both a Shimano nexus 7 and later 8 speed hub. (On a trek navigator). The failure may have been related to the fact that he road in dusty conditions, or that his bike was pretty heavily loaded, or to some other unusual reason...but it has made me a little leery of conventional 7-8-9 speed hubs. (Although not the rohloff; I think you could use that to drive a car).

The fact that your friend broke two different brands would suggest that his requirements regarding coping with his own strength and the loads he expects to carry are probably too high for the low priced multi geared hubs that he tried. I say 'low priced' in contrast to the Rohlhoff beast that seems to cope with anything. These hubs may not have perfect sealing, but I'd be very surprised if the problems were caused by dusty conditions. The lubrication around the seals would surely pick up most of the dust that could get in and stop it going right inside.

Jur's remarks about the small size of the planet gears in the SA 8 speed are worth noting. In the failure he documented, one of the gears actually broke. I have never heard of any such failure in the three speed gear systems, probably because the gears are bigger, but maybe there are other issues relating to low gear ratios creating much increased torque inside the hub. I don't feel certain about the ground here, but I'd really like to know a lot more about these kinds of problems. It would be great to get some really good engineer's report into the capabilities of different hubs regarding longevity, lubrication, power transmission capabilities and general durability.

It is the load, not the dust. The Nexus 7sp and 8sp hubs aren't really designed to handle high loads. The SRAM S7 seems to handle them better, although friends have still damaged them with very high torques (using them in combination with a Stokemonkey electric motor). The Rohloff is the only internal hub that I'm aware of which is designed for tandem and cargo loads besides the SRAM 5sp Cargo hub. I do know a number of people who run SRAM S7 hubs on cargo bikes without problems.

I'm curious to see how the new SRAM i9 holds up in use. The design isn't as simple as the S7. It looks like I've sold my Tikit with the S7, so I'll be putting an i9 on the Tikit that I'm keeping.

alex

What I wonder is whether the newer hubs are put together to the same quality standards as the older ones. Sizes of pinions aside, we know that an AW 3 speed hub is MUCH better sealed than any modern hub (Rohloff possibly excepted). To prove this, try filling your new Nexus or other hub with oil. If the old hubs keep oil in that much better, they keep crap out that much better.

If we expect modern multispeed hubs to continue chugging along for 50+ years of ridiculous mileages, the way the AW does, then we're probably kidding ourselves. If, however, we compare them with the wear cycles and associated costs of running an 8+ speed derailleur in all weathers, they probably still win, and certainly win on convenience (I know which I'd rather clean after a wet run on salty roads)

It would be interesting to know what a realistic load limit is on the various hubs. The bike, various racks, his commuting gear (incl. laptop), and his own weight must have come close to 300 lbs. So that's one data point.

It's not the mass load per se, but the torque that counts, this is what Alex means. A SA 8sp hub on a 700c wheel requires a very low chain gearing to make the highest gear useful; this translates into huge torque exerted on the hub gears. With smaller wheels this problem is reduced due to smaller wheel diameter. So 16" wheels is really the best application for this kind of hub.

The old Shimano 333 hub is not as famous as the SA AW but I have been using one for a couple of years and so far so good. Anyone shares my opinion?