In other news all the parts I needed arrived to convert my 10 speed Mk3 Touring to 11 speed, whilst retaining the high speed 9t cog. More to come unless anyone has posted about this before. Have 2 cassettes a 36-9 which is super wide range and a 32-9 which is the same range as the 10speed touring but with an extra close ratio.

Is anyone interested in the story once it's built?

I am! Also interested in how you plan to do it. My Birdy has the 9-32t 10-speed cassette originally, am considering the 9-36t 11-speed for a more usable range.

Which derailer are you going to use? My concern is that the cassettes are MTB-spaced, and 11-speed MTB derailers all seem to be so long that they may rub the tire, since 11-speed MTB cassettes are dished so that the biggest cog is further inboards than the biggest of a 10-speed.

SRAM has a CX 11-speed derailer "Force CX1" which is nicely short, but it's rated for 32t max, and 21t chain wrap. B-screw may allow the 36t cog, but stretching it to 27t chain wrap seems a bit much. And you'd have to use road shifters, or an adapter.

On the other hand, the MTB 11-speed derailers are designed for 40-50t big cogs now, so they may be riding too low for good shifting on 36t max. And the Birdy prefers to have the chain on the short side, for better chain wrap when folding. Short chain means extra large distance between cassette and derailer, due to offset pulleys. It would be interesting to mount the short cage from the CX1 on an MTB derailer body, if that fits. But it's an expensive bet.

Annoying that Sunrace who makes these 9t cassettes, don't seem to make a derailer that's designed for them, and the small wheels they're meant for.

I would love to hear about your switch to Maguras. Which ones did you use? Did you have to make any modifications? And how did you manage the circuitous route of the front brake hose? Thanks.

Thanks. I took the block off and replaced it carefully with the dome-shaped washers and this time the toe-in wasn't so pronounced. I'm not sure what minor misalignment the first time was causing such an extreme effect.

Magura's have come as standard fit on Birdy's models before - particularly in Germany which is the home country for both - so they fit pretty easily as long as you dont try to put the brake boosters on as well. I have a decent collection of retro bikes so I was able to get hold of some old HS22's in classic fluoro yellow.


My old birdy was an original Birdy Blue (3x7 sachs dual drive - pre-Sram), and the rear brake routing on the early models left lots to be desired which promoted the Magura's in the first place, that model also had simple metal oval loops to route all the cables so there were no cable bosses to drill out for the hoses, and because maguras can pivot through a wide range of angles and have fairly short blocks they actually fitted easier than the V's they replaced.


The front was a similar story, and was basically an external run of the way the hoses run today on the current model, although from memory it was on the Left hand leg not the right hand leg. Basically the hose ran down the left hand leg via cable ties, then I used a cable tie through the hollow pivot bolt to create a tight-ish guide loop to allow enough freedom in the fork fold but to keep it out of the way in normal riding. I used hope braided hoses rather than the black oem magura ones, and after about 4 years all that had worn from rubbing during folding and transport was the clear outer. The braiding was untouched.


Magura's are amazing brakes - nearest you will get to discs with a rim brake.


Hope this helps!

** 11 Speed modding update **

Started this over the weekend and it didnt go too well. Firstly the 9-32 cassette turned out to be the standard birdy 10 speed version due to a labelling error at the shop. So on went the 9-36T one. The good news it that fitting the cassettes is trivial if you have the Capreo lock ring tool and chain whip. The 11 speed cassettes come with a 1.85mm spacer which is usually used for converting 11 speed freehub bodies for 10 speed cassettes, there was certainly no room to include the spacer on the Birdy hubs. I wonder if its for spacing out the fractionally longer road hub bodies? Any guesses?

So second bad news of the day - I bought too short a 11 speed chain - a 114link kmc one. The standard touring has a 115 link chain, and going from 32t to 36t at the back probably requires one more to make 116 in today. Oddly enough I noticed for the first time that my original birdy chain already had 2 speed links in, which assuming 1 was fitted in the factory then suggests another was fitted later, given my birdy was bought new I suspect its because I ordered the chain ring upgrade.

Fitted an SLX trigger shifter and got a rough n ready set of shifting going with the original Deore Trekking rear mech. So the good news is with more time to fiddle I could probably keep the 10 speed rear mech if I was willing to settle for non-quite precise shifting. More mech experimentation to follow.
*
Last bad news of the day I have a 56T chainring and with it and the 36T sprocket at the back in "Big-Big" the chain rubs the near the top of the suspension pivot at the start of the swing arm this will lead to friction and a broken swing arm which is a bad thing! There is a little triangle shape where the swing arm flares out slightly wider and the chain was rubbing there. I will try to upload a photo later.

*Not really big-big as there is only 1 ring at the front.

Fortunately I have several cunning plans.... tune in in the next couple of days for part 3.

My old BIRDY ROHLOFF is still strong and working perfectly... :)

Definitely! Many thanks for that.

Any Classic owner tried changing their tires to Schwalbe Black Jack? The stock tire width is 1.5 and the black jack is 1.9. Do I need to change my inner tubes as well? This is my first time changing the stock tires of a bike so yeah. Also, how's the performance on road / off road/ Many thanks!

Stock inner tube will work. Roger

I've now replaced the front brake with an HS22 (will sort out the rear tomorrow). The cable/hose routing was much easier than I anticipated and I was delighted to find that the latest design of the booster mounting plate will fit without fouling the suspension. Just took it out for a test drive -- immensely satisfying: like night and day! Thanks for your encouragement.

I was all set to post a picture of the installation but apparently the forum won't let me post one until I've submitted 10 posts. :-|

Thanks secret_squirrel, looking forwards to the pictures. So you see no risk of it rubbing the rim or tire?
You're using the GS / medium length, right?
What's your tire width?
Did you also verify that the front hub axle doesn't hit the mech body when folding?

If you also tried the 9-36 cassette, I'm curious what sort of chainline you have to give the front chainring to avoid rubbing the chainstay. Seems to me the Birdy wasn't really designed for external gearing at all, the way that chainstay is shaped...

I've done the 11-speed mod now. 9-36t cassette, SRAM NX 1x11 derailer, and SRAM NX gripshift. The derailer is long enough to reach down past the 40 mm tyre, but there's just enough clearance to avoid rubbing. It's a bit shorter than the original XT 10-speed derailer, so there's more ground clearance. I had to space out the 45t Litepro chainring 1 mm more to clear the chainstay. The chainring is aligned more or less with the 8th gear, so the chainline is very bad in 1st gear, but I don't hear any noise when riding it. Shifting is great.

I had to route the shift cable out through the hole on the underside of the swingarm, which I guess exists for the Alfine edition. The fold is unaffected.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7851/...e4697a8e_c.jpg
SRAM NX 1. gear by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7884/...4b7757bc_c.jpg
SRAM NX 11. gear by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr

First gear, 45-36, gives me 1.74 meters, just about enough to climb hills with a touring load. 11th gear is 6.96 meters, enough to ride about 40 km/h. More range would be nice, but that would require a setup that is either more expensive, more complicated to fix on tour, or heavier (or all the above). I think it will be good enough as is.

R & M, please redesign the rear swingarm so a more sensible chainline is possible!

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7803/...36f771b1_c.jpg
Birdy in Porsgrunn by gunnsteinlye, on Flickr

May I ask, what are a couple of decent ISO bottom brackets measuring 68mm x 127mm (for my older Birdy BD-1)?

I would like to move the chain out a bit since it's rubbing the left leg of the V-strut on the pivot arm when the chain is on the largest rear cog. The width of the BB on the bike now is 116mm. I'd rather not spend a lot of money, just looking for something sturdy and well made that will last. No need to shave grams.

Not what you're asking, but I think it's easier, and cheaper, to use chainring spacers instead. Lighter too. These can be had in various thicknesses from 1 mm and up. If you need as much as 3 mm, you may also need longer chainring bolts. Another advantage is you get to keep your current Q-factor, which is good unless you prefer more widely spaced pedals.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chainring+...ages&ia=images

Thanks for the suggestion and link.

I use a Shimano Dura Ace 7800 crankset with the hollowtech bottom bracket, it weighs about half what the original parts do, and is easy to install. 105 or Ultegra work just as well, and are still quite light. I have no issues with rubbing using an 11 speed rear sprocket.

Curious... do you use a roadbike cassette? They are not spaced as far inwards as 11-12 speed MTB cassettes are, so would be less likely to rub.

I run an XTR mountain bike cassette.

I am pretty new to the world of bottom brackets and chain lines, and will have to read up about the hollowtech approach, where there's no spindle in the BB, rather it is part of the crank. With the hollowtech approach, what corresponds to a square taper BB's spindle width? How do you set the distance between the cranks? Are the crank shafts available in different widths?

Yes, the hollow tech bottom brackets come in different widths, and use the same measurement system as square taper.

I bought a Tange Seiki 68x127 BB for my BD-1, and installed the chain-ring on the outside of the spider, and now there's a good 6mm clearance, and even when the chain is on the largest cog there's no rub. The chain feels and acts perfectly fine, better than it had been with the 68x116 BB.

My rear hub failed :( The freehub mechanism on the Sunrace hub (Capreo-style for 9t cassettes) suddenly isn't freewheeling anymore, but is so draggy that the derailer arm bends, and the chain goes slack and derails. And this is after only 300 km. Looks like a warranty matter. I really hope the replacement is longer lasting. If not I'll be switching either to an SRAM style hub for their 10-42t cassettes, or to an Alfine 11 (not cheap).

Hello,

I have the opportunity of buying a second-hand Birdy City with an Alfine 8 gear hub and hydraulic disk brakes from 2011.

The owner says the front brake works fine, while the rear brake needs a bleeding (or possibly, just a burping; They're Shimano BR-M575).

What should I check during the test ride?

Thank you.

The brake is cheap to replace if bleeding doesn't help, no worry there. The expensive bits are the frame, fork and gear hub. R&M specifies that certain bits should be replaced every 3 years or 10000 km or so (front and rear fork, handlepost and bars, see earlier posts in this thread). Ask if this has been done, if they say yes, ask for receipts. If they say no, you'll have to consider the cost of replacing those parts, vs. the risk of keeping them (you probably don't know how the bike has been ridden). Check the frame and forks carefully for cracks.

Try all 8 gears, listen for nasty noises, shifting trouble, or an uneven feel when pedaling. Lift the bike and spin the wheels, look for wobbling in the rims (wobbling in the tyres don't matter as much).

Personally, I think the Alfine 8 has too little gearing range for hilly terrain. In fairly flat areas it's good.