Pacific Cycles just introduced an eBirdy.

Some German Birdy dealers are selling the Pacific Cycles eBirdy.

So there is at least again one eBirdy on the market.

When R&M proposed an eBirdy, indeed the market wasn't ready for it and also the technology wasn't as developed as it is now and R&M wasn't as much focused on ebike as it is now.

R&M could follow Pacific Cycles.

R&M afaict currently uses exclusively crank motors, not hub motors. This is generally the most efficient option since it benefits from the bike's gears. And it gives a sportier response as soon as your pedals move, rather than having to crank half a revolution before a hub motor starts pulling. And you get the full benefit of suspension, and a better weight balance and freedom to choose whatever rear gearing you want, including internal hub gears. Crank motors are more expensive though, and the frame has to be built around them. And that's a problem for the Birdy - how to fit a motor in that frame, without blocking the fold? If it is possible at all, the end result may not look much like a Birdy.

They could go for a hub motor like Pacific, but that would compromise with what they clearly believe an e-bike should be. (They can't install throttles to work around the hub lag, as those are not allowed for EU pedelecs, only for mopeds and upwards. The motor must be controlled by crank revolution.)

As for batteries, the frame has some volume, but not enough to easily fit a 500 Wh I think. Both frame and battery would need a peculiar shape which makes them more expensive. They could use the lumpy standard shape Bosch battery, I think that will fit on top of the frame, but it will look ugly and may affect folded dimensions a little bit.

All together this may be why they have given up on the Birdy and instead made the Tinker, a small-wheel ebike. Mostly non-folding, only the stem folds it seems.
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/tinker/

But it reminds me, I did test ride an electric Birdy at the SPEZI bike show in 2013. I don't remember now what kind of motor it had. Only that it had the nuVinci Harmony automatically shifting stepless gear hub, a great ride. Probably this means it had a front hub motor, which I would say is generally the least good option for a motor, all else being equal. Bad on icy/gravelly ground, wears out tires fast, affects steering. Anyway, this confirms they were testing it, and dropped it.

(The battery was in a bag on the handlebars, a temporary setup.)

Another problem for an e-Birdy is the added weight. It already comes with warnings to replace the swingarm, fork and handlepost every x thousand km or y years, I don't recall which. The added weight from motor + battery makes this worse. I see Pacific put both the motor and the battery inside the rear wheel. That solves the frame load issue, but makes the problem of increased unsuspended mass worse. It's "cable-less" which may mean it's illegal in EU, if it has no crank sensor. Though that doesn't affect Pacific much, and there's also the fact that this way it's fairly easy to electrify it, with a minimum of changes to the rest of the bike. A low hanging fruit for them.

Im no ebike expert but I believe the crack lag problem for hub motors has been mostly fixed by better sensors. There are aftermarket Brompton e-mods that have received favourable reviews with them.

This was the original e-Birdy I believe, https://road.cc/content/news/326-new...lectric-folder. went on sale a while later in the UK. Every so often one shows up on Ebay. The battery bag is a similar solution to the current e-Brompton - albeit the Brompton has the advantage of the bag being much lower down the frame, near the headtube which I imaging improves handling compared to the e-Birdy.

Pacific Cycles uses the Zehus integrated hub that is also used in the Vellobike+.

All assisted folders face the weight increase problem, anybody willing an assisted folder must accept some weight increase.

I think it would be possible to integrate the Fazua crank motor in the Birdy frame. The Fazua solution weight only about 3.3kg in total (including a 252Wh battery).

The problem is that Fazua is an high end expensive solution meant for high end road bikes and the R&M Birdy is already pretty expensive, the Fazua assisted Birdy would probably become much too expensive ?

Evelo has made e-folders, mid drive, torque sensor, battery in top tube for the last few years. https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/dash/

This is a classic mid-frame fold folder. There are several with crank motor like this one.

Its much bigger folded than the Birdy and weight 43lbs about 20kg.

A eBirdy with a Fazua motor could weight less than 15kg.

Oh, good. Small wheels should have less of those problems in any case, since they rotate faster.

Right, the one I test rode had the battery in a similar bag (but could not have had a rear motor).


Of course. The point was that it matters where that weight is placed. Placed in the wheel it doesn't affect the frame carrying capacity, but reduces suspension efficiency. Placed in the frame it counts towards the weight limits of the frame, which may have to be strengthened. (Perhaps the Pacific solution is fine, it isn't a downhill bike, after all.)


Yes, maybe this is possible, it would be a nice solution. The battery is half the capacity of what R&M normally uses, but some will be happy with that. And perhaps it is possible to mount two batteries. It's a completely different ecosystem though, they would lose some of the benefit they have now in that all R&M ebikes use Bosch motor systems.


That motor doesn't look compatible with the way the Birdy folds. And it's hard to judge the battery vs. frame when they don't say what the Wh capacity is. Apples vs. oranges. Sure such folding ebikes can be made, but a Birdy with crank motor and frame battery is another matter. Fazua seems the easiest solution, technically speaking. Business decisions are also another matter... :)

Granted it would be nice to see lower weight solutions. I used Evelo to just show that mid drive folders with batteries in the frame are out there. From the spec section on the page Battery....36V 10.5AH Samsung

The battery is 36V 10.5AH Samsung = 378Wh more than the standard Fazua battery.

Usually, folders do less distance than other bikes, they are used for commuting so a smaller battery capacity is acceptable.

Indeed, R&M work mainly with Bosch moving to another motor provider is a problem as they will probably buy less pieces. But folders often need specific components produced in small quantities.

As mid drive motors get smaller, folders with batteries built in (to normal frame tubes) that are relatively light will become more available.

Schwinnsta, thanks for the info. That's not bad at all for such a frame design.
Jipe, yes, 378 Wh on a folder may be enough for many. Especially for those who have to lift the bike often. Though as you say, the Evelo isn't light. A 15 kg Fazua eBirdy would be really nice.

Birdy is expensive and hard to make profitable partly because of all the either fully custom or "rare" parts: front disk hub, rear hub with 9t cassettes, seat post, handlepost, chain management thingy, and more. Adding special motor parts to this only makes it more expensive. It's clear why Pacific put everything in the rear wheel. It's the simplest way, hence the cheapest.

I see for the E-BIRDY Monocoque they claim 13.1 kg w/o pedals! Seriously light. It's just a 155 Wh battery, though. Less than a third of a Bosch battery. And it seems to be a singlespeed. So in more hilly places the motor won't get much help from the rider, the cadence will be low. Could work well in flat citites.
https://www.pacific-cycles.com/e-bir...IRDY-Monocoque

But seems to be a full 250 W motor, and it has regenerative braking. Few ebikes has this.
https://www.zehus.it/products/

It will extend the batteries somewhat, but likely less than 10% according to this I just read:
https://electrek.co/2018/04/24/regen...-how-it-works/

Its the same technology from Zehus as in the Vellobike+, also single speed (why didn't Zehus put a cassette on their hub, not enough space in width ??).

Reviews of the Vellobike+ aren't very positive: either very short autonomy either very weak electric assist. The Zehus smart regen doesn't bring much.

The control from the smartphone seems also problematic: requires mobile internet, the smartphone is connected to the Zehus servers which are connected to the motor hub, there is no BTLE (or other) direct connection between the smartphone and the hub.

Its slow and in case of absence of mobile internet coverage (or Zehus servers down), no control anymore !

Oh, that is bad. Same if Zehus goes bankrupt, the servers will go down permanently unless someone buys the assets and restarts it. Also those who don't own a smartphone, or have one that isn't compatible, they can't use it either.

Birdy P40 (Pacific Cycles 40th Anniversary Edition)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6058e3a63c.jpg

Another 18inch/355 tyre for Birdy
 

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_t.../billy_bonkers

came out last year but I think the 18inch versions are new (there is two types)

as theyre 2inch Wide they should fit easy like big apple tyres but with more grip!

Is there a link for the Birdy P40? I don't see any mention of this on Pacific Cycles website for the Birdy.

Don't think there is any info yet, will keep update if any spec out ... looks like a big wheel birdy though

P40 photos are supposed to be coming soon. If you read Pacific Cycles FB page, it's noted as coming soon. I can't seem to be able to post the link here.

New post from Pacific Cycles about the P40: Your ride is about to get better. T- One Month.

With a new invisible picture of the front part.

Quote from their FB page - "Pacific Cycles It's a NEW version, I know it's frustrating , but due to many reasons the release is now set for November, we will not let yall down https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...1/16/1f920.png"

Their timing could have been better. Created some hype and then let all the air out...

It seems indeed to be a new version of the Birdy that will first appear as a limited edition P40, not only a limited edition produced only once as the Titanium Birdy (BTW. was this really the case ? Some Pacific Cycles dealers talked of a second batch of Ti Birdy in 2020).

If it is a new version, it could require some alignments/agreements with Riese & Müller that could explain the delay.

Hello everyone

This is a great forum to have stumbled upon. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned within the 56 pages (!) but I'm looking for info on installation of the front spring retainer catch. I have a Mk1 Birdy project and have been sourcing parts. I can't figure out the orientation of the pre-tensioned wire so that the catch becomes sprung. Any thoughts appreciated.

i have given up on that too. just use an elastic band. no sprins available around here.

After years of having a stiff and lethargic leg due to deep vein thrombosis, I’m ready to cycle again.
Can anyone tell me which is a better buy? GT or R20? I know GT is good for all terrains but how much impact can R20 takes on rough roads or roads with potholes.
Gutted that Birdy doesn’t produce a white body frame or Ferrari yellow tone. Think I’ll preorder a polished silver or graphite black as both will look awesome with striking coloured parts

Consider "velobikeshop dot com". They supply numerous colors!

Thanks mate. They do not have white. The colours they have available for pre orders , I’m taking either silver or black. Now I’m pondering over which model. GT or R20.

I provide incorrect information with respect to website. The one I intended to post was "mightyvelo dot com" in Singapore. Still, you're correct: neither yellow nor white is offered. I'm somewhat surprised as both are commonly considered as desirable colors.

it’s fine. I understood you were trying to recommend mighty velo. :)

Yes, would love to get a white body frame. Makes “dressing up” the birdy easier.