every bike which gets ridden and used is a good bike .. no matter what size, what brand or or or ... A Dahon has missed their goal if a bike is just bought and than forgotten somewhere in the dark garage, same as a Brommy or whatever ...

thor

It is not too uncommon to buy a lot of fake things in China.

So it is interesting to see a Brompton look a like. That is all.

Brompton..

Brompton bikes are nothing special. They were available a long time ago. Today, folders are popular due mainly to this economic climate. People want a multi-functional bike, something you can bring to work and ride on the weekends.

But you can not change people's habits. People will always want to buy a brand name bike. Some people will always want to be associated with a brand name. It is a materialistic instinct as we are trained from the very young to expect that. Why do you think outlet stores are so popular? Why do you think Mercedes Benz and BMW dealerships are still selling even during this recession? Why are people buying Polo, Guess, Gucci, LV, Coach, Rolex etc when they can buy a cheaper no-name alternatives? But ofcourse, even in this poor economy, you always have to look and dress good. Even if you are riding a bike, you want to be caught riding either a Cervelo R3 or R5 with at least Dura Ace or Ultegra. Don't want to be caught dead riding a cheap Norco CRR3 or a low end Performance $999 special Fuji carbon bike, which goes to show people you are not suffering financially!

A Brompton is a nice bike with a nice price. A Cervelo R5 is an even NICER bike with a nicer price. Come to think of it. Bromptons are not that expensive at all compared to say a high end Cervelo, Madone 6 or a Guru bike. My local Brompton dealer told me that he sold lots of Bromptons. Up till today, I had only seen 2 Bromptons, one Brompton S1 spotted along Granville St Skytrain station (in Vancouver) and the other on Canada Line. Compared this to a few Dahons and other folders like Strida, Ori, Tikits etc. It is good to see a variety of folders, but Brompton bikes do not corner our market at all.

Lastly, it is pointless to debate which is the best folder. Because there is none. A dealer would be delighted to carry just 1 brand, the best brand because this reduces overhead. But clearly in some markets, customers want more choices. So dealers carry more.

I like to think that Brompton offers a choice. Everytime I challenge my friends to live a healthy life style by doing some exercises and commute by bike to work, they keep giving me excuses that there is not a bike that they like. Clearly with so many folder and conventional bike choices, there is no reason not to ride. If a Brompton gets people riding, that is great. If a Dahon, Moulton, Tern, Strida, Ori or Asama get them riding, all the better. It is all about choice. In the end, it is all about the ride and the health benefits it brings. I suspect that people who champion Bromptons all day long on the net clearly has way too much computer time working the finger tips rather than those legs! Last time I checked, you need to use your legs to move the pedals; not your arms and fingers.

A few million people would disagree with you. Most of my colleagues and a lot of my students think it is an amazing bike. The Brompton is a much improved bike to the first few generations. It was a design ahead of its time and that has proven to be the case.

However, as you and Brakemeister above have said; What matters is what makes us happy and gets people out cycling. But once again Pacificyclist I'd like to remind you type more than anyone most of the time! I cycled a 20 mile commute to and from central London yesterday and did a hard days work! Why don't some of you stop generalising about other forum users? There is also a difference between defending Brompton and 'championing' them. Most of the Brompton users here just find it is the bike for them but love other folding bikes too. That's why they use this sub-forum and not the Brompton one!

I actually applaud people like Brakemeister & Human Amplifier who promote specific bikes and brands but do not follow an agenda of criticising other bikes unnecessarily. As for those who do, you know who you are and you have been targeting Brompton on this sub-forum for many weeks now or jumping on the bandwagon. when you can. I have always said that all the folding bike companies are relatively ethical and make some very good bikes that we all love. So sorry but some of us will defend Brompton's virtues thankyou very much ;-)

Mulleady,

I wrote long only to summarize this rather long and pointless debate. Brompton is just a bike period. Nothing special. What is important is bike fit and not everyone fits on a Brompton. You are making it sound like everyone in the world fits perfectly. A forum is designed to provide various opinions to a product. It is up to the forum user to make a choice.

In my opinion every bicycle (not just folders) out there is a compromise;

Ride, weight, gears, folding size, easy to transport(roll), longevity, looks, wheel size, suspension, price etc etc.

Its up to the rider to choose what is most important to them.

When I see comments like "such and such is the best at everything and you should buy it because I use it and its the best for me!" I feel a little sad, because we are ment to be the guys that know what we are talking about. This does not mean you shouldn't recommend a bike.

NO,iF Reach is not ideal if you need something with a small folding size

NO, a Brompton is not the ideal bike for you if you have a 30mile commute

NO, a Dahon Speed Pro is not the bike for you if you want your bike to be easy to carry when folded.


And there is nothing wrong with this, its a VERY good thing we have so many choices to choose from! I've had people come to me after someone at Brompton recommended them a Pacific (Touring), and I have also recommended Brompton/Dahon to many many people (small fold/price being main reasons).




Juan

Actually, after looking at a few brands of folding bikes, I ended up deciding the Brompton was special.

It's rather irksome that we constantly have industry people here with an agenda to promote their brands. This place is rapidly losing its appeal to me and I suspect more than a few others too. At this point I would never consider anything from Pacific or Dahon (the latter is definitely NOT because of Thor - he's one of the good guys IMO). Corporate shills have ruined more forums than trolls.

Why would Brompton be interested in this and how could they even keep tabs on the contents of ebay? Is there some sort of automatic scan for their name that's performed on every item listed under 'cycling'?

Edit: I guess it wouldn't be hard for an importer to bring Flamingo bikes into the UK. . . which would be unpleasant for Brompton.

I guess this is directed to me, I have nothing to hide all my posts can be found HERE (or click my username), if my "agenda" is to talk folding bikes, then yes I have an agenda.. I have been doing so since the day I joined looking for a folding bike and Jur, bhkyte and others recommended me a Pacific Reach, now I am lucky enough to work distributing them in the UK.

I write on this forum for the same reason everyone does, because I like bikes, I learn from others and give advice to people who want it (and have bent over backwards to help), I give my personal opinion and have said nothing I am ashamed of saying. I am not here to sell bikes and have made zero money from anyone in this forum, I just like folding bikes.

If you dont like my opinion, then you are welcome to add me to the "ignore list", just click my profile.


Juan

Probably it is related to the Merc, not the parts. Brompton had traction in courts protecting the industrial design of their bikes and EBay wants to stay lawful and cut legal expenses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brompto...le#Court_cases

no it was using the phrase "Brompton" to describe genuine "brompton" parts(!) (in association with a non brompton bike).

Another important category is all-around-bike and Brompton does very well in this category. Reasonable ride quality, reasonable gear range, reasonable weight, good fold, good spare part availability, reasonable price, reasonable aesthetic, etc. A well tuned compromise of many conflicting goals.

Best luggage system, best folding size for 16" wheels.. Many important categories missing, was just an example, and I agree with you (closely followed by Dahon & Mezzo). But "Not everyone drives a VW Golf".

Choice is good

Juan

I remember your posting before you bought the Pacific, I also recommended it to you !

Great, you end up getting the rights to sell a product you have bought and love. Good recommendation I say.

I guess we are in the same boat, we have tried other bikes and found good qualities in our choices. The idea that the Brompton is "special" amongst all the competion and all the folding bike that supersede it in one factor or another is simply silly.
Brompton equals good bike/package. I occasionally recomemed them as the best bike to suit a partiular persons needs if a persons asks me.
The last folder I recommended to a person was a Dahon Cadeza
lets have some preceptive.

SORRY! I forgot to add "Jur and others" will edit now. I agree that the Brompton is the best "overall" compromise, but not everyone needs this, and this is ok!


Yes! I never posted the story here in fear of sounding "spammy" (I did tell some members via PM because they asked) but since I am been accused of this might as well.

Remember that accident I had on my reach? (Video here) well I couldnt find a place to buy the front fork, at the time I was an intern and making very little money.. George (75 year old founder) sent me a free £150 fork! from then on we started emailing each other and he eventually invited me to visit him in Taiwan. One day if you are in London let me know and I can tell you the whole story over a drink.


And THANK YOU once again for recommending me my Reach thanks to you guys I no longer spend my 9-5 infront of a computer screen working for "the big man" but instead i work 24/7 doing something I love.

Juan

Or maybe not.........

Note to self: Start Reading what you write...

Made sense in my head. Remove "in everything"

Juan

Now you have it Juan so get real.. You should not come on the forums telling us that Brompton lack ethics in claiming it is an English brand. You have been constantly critical of Brompton on these forums and totally opportunistic. I have countered you with critical questions on Pacific and you never addressed one of them. Please don't try to convince us for a second that you are an unbiased user.

You have every right to extol the virtues of Pacific bikes which are many but not to keep slagging off a very fine competitor. You are shooting yourself in the foot and doing Pacific no favours.

Take example from Brakemeister (Thor) and Human Amplifier and learn some tact in promoting Pacific's product on these forums.

To the rest of you. I always loved Pacific's bikes. I don't even mind a good old debate with Chucky because I see no evidence of an agenda, just a personal opinion that I don't agree with!

And so much to learn about promoting the fine bikes that Pacific make lol!

Yes and that was petulant of them to get your listing blocked but it doesn't make Brompton a poor brand. I think they were right to protect copyright against blatant clones but a wrong call to pick on an individual like you.

I used to have a Dahon Cadenza 08, a very nice bike. The new Pacific IF Urban is better but is handicapped by its £1200 price. It reaches beyond the normal 'UK Cycle to Work' scheme limit of £1000. Only some bike shops will work a quote so the buyer can contribute on bikes over £1000, the rest stick by the book. It's a shame that such a potentially great bike has been over-niched by its overly high pricing point.

Mulleady (Francis) the only hidden agenda here is yours, you know exactly what I mean. I was stupid enough to trust you like a friend only to get backstabbed, I learned my lesson.

I ever posted in this forum because it was fun.


You win, its no longer fun, you have bullied me out of this forum, my opinion will never matter because I lack the "tact" and say things like it is, I am only 25, but I am old enough to know this is a GOOD thing.

Over and out.


Juan

Ouch! 25 or 55, this is not the reaction of someone who shows the capability to grow up. I never got personal with you, I just pointed out you have every right to extol the virtues of Pacific bikes (the company you work for) but not engage in questioning how authentic Brompton are and tell us all that most of their parts are made in Taiwan. That is not saying things 'like it is'.

Juan
take a breather
we dont want to loose you ....
Its super difficult for us folks who have an opinion ..lol.. to survive these forums, but its also super rewarding and fun.
we are all grown ups ( mostly ) and sometimes something is said that is a little harsh...
especially in these xxx vesus yyy brand kind of discussions. They are quite ok and teach us old farths a lesson here and there, but if they get to the point where people get miffed and dont show up anymore than its not worth it...

Stay here my friend !

You can go the high road and put your company affiliation in your signature .... in my opinion something everybody who is " connected" should do ... and than can let the readers ( mostly pretty inteligent folks around here ) choose to take the post with a grain of salt ...
works for me ... ( most of the times ..lol )

OK ?
get a group hug !

thor

p.s. somehow I miss sommatch the Brommy extraordinaire from the past ... where is she anyhow ...? should get her brommy butt back in here .... I got her a Super doopa hard to find piece to mount a hydraulic brake on her bike .... wonder how that worked out ...

I bought a pantour hub Brommie wheel from Somna lol!

+1 on sommatch, so knowledgeable , unbiased, reasonable. Miss her loads, great source of information and balance.

Juan
I sure it can be worked out. I posted some overly strong views when I first joined the forum. I have improved my posts over time, and been less bothered my others with time. Please return.