jerrysimon

Excellent write up and great pics.

Thanks

Jerry

NigelHealy

Well its not actually that bad, its frightening in a car to see the sharp drops off the road but on a bike its basically a mass to push up a hill and otherwise a nice ride. It was certainly scarier in my mind from memory than in reality. If I didn't have the camping gear weight, I could possibly have ridden instead of pushing.

NigelHealy

Yep, I'm saving them for long journeys

NigelHealy

Let's be honest, folders are not as good for riding than a regular road bike, plus the parts are more expensive and more specialist. I mean if my sprockets or mudguards wear out, its postage from UK. Plus the Brompton's 16" wheels make handling a little skittish plus the rear derailleur being nearer the ground attracts more dirt and so more servicing. However, if folding is part of the trip then a Brompton is about 10% slower if you go for the lower handlebar options like the S-bar version and if that compact fold helps with use of a car or bus or train, it is overall worthwhile. In this camping trip's example, the folder was used partly because it was the only bike I had in UK and partly because it can store inside the tent and can use any public transport. I once was biking with that same bike and panniers south through Thirlemere in less hospitable weather and the headwind was really strong, I was doing about 2mph and I calculated I'd be riding after dark, so I scanned the bus times on the passing bus stops and figured when to stop, I folded and got the bus some of the way to get me back on schedule. You can't do that with practically any bike. I did put the bike in its cover to avoid any "its a bike" conversations.

This is my usual daily evening ride, although the clocks going back will make this more challenging to do in the dark.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/811725

Which is 39 miles 3800ft which is the same effort I did for example in the UK camping trip Wasdale to Braithwaite, but my evening ride is without camping gear, on a road bike with drop handlebars and I do it in about 3 hours.

My weekend routes are more varied but for example I did this route on Saturday and Sunday this last weekend
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/811734
which is showing as 66miles / 7000 ft and I did this in 5hr35min and 5hr45mins respectively.

So I was keeping well within the Brompton's capabilities not pushing expectations on its speed and hence its distance.

Actually I find pushing one's fitness up a level beyond commuting makes Brompton commuting far more practical. The stronger legs can handle for example 2-speed lighter bike and the high cardio fitness and general lowering of overall blubber means less sweaty. However this last summer, even though I was slowly pedaling the last 5 minutes and arriving at the office cool, I'd become wet from sweat within 5mins and take 20mins to dry out, so I've been thinking about an e-brompton (electric motor). That opens up some interesting combination, such as more serious longer trips but obviously not camping due to the need to recharge the batteries but say B&B touring. Combined with not carrying camping equipment and a lower S-bar type geometry, you could do more seriously higher daily mileage rates. The mileage is what makes touring fun, a diversified scenery.

escii_35

Another Hardknott pass pic.



The drop down to Bassenwaite Lake from Cokermouth on the CTC route scared the piss out of me. Take the southern route over Winlatter Pass which goes by the MTB center it's much nicer.

After going over Hardknott I turned right into the Dunnerdale Valley instead of heading over the Wynrose into tourist land.

"I climbed out of the valley and crossed over to Brougton Mills. (Another brutal climb with a few +20% grades. It was getting past lunch time and the rain and wind were still battering me so I stopped at the pub. Good food at the Blacksmiths Arms. I've only got one more climb in me so it's time to pick a stopping point."

Heh,

NigelHealy

I took the Winlatter Pass route, it is the CTC route isn't it? I saw C2C signs all the way, the C2C went off road and through the forest and then rejoined. The Bromptons narrow tyres forbid me to go through any soft ground like mud so I stuck to tarmac. My map routes show the exact roads taken.

The Brompton can go most places, those it can't you have to stand by its side pushing or holding it back.

escii_35

They are "both" the C2C. I just like hills. Starting at Cockermouth I went over the northern choice, road down the lake a few miles, then crossed back on the southern route turning 4 miles into 15 with 2 big climbs. I finished the day at a pub/campground near lorton. https://www.wheatsheafinnlorton.co.uk

Gotta love the UK.

NigelHealy

Nice looking camping site, I never noticed it, in that little valley which has High Lorton in it.
Hey there could be hundreds of Bromptons camping but with the bikes inside the tents you'd never know

FYI the National Trust (NT) Campsites charged £5.50 and that's not being a member, arriving on bike. The NT Langdale they said simply because I was on a bike. The NT Wasdale said it was because I'd used public transport within the National Park and I said I'd use the train to Windermere which counted, they asked to see my rail ticket.

One of the campsites, I think it was the NT Wasdale, charge 20p for a shower. Braithwaite used to charge now free. NT Langdale is free.

I'm still thinking about to shrink my kit because a Brompton S-bag is more aerodynamic and that counts if you want to do any high-mileage days.
I have in the past wondered if a Brompton could form part of the tent frame?

NigelHealy

late follow-up. My mission to build a better touring folder continues, having sold the Brompton above in September. I ordered in late October a new Brompton S6L with SON dynamo system, in USA, paid $2013 (ouch, but if I'd ordered it a month later 2012 prices are 6% higher), so that's the newer BWR hub. My intention then, and still now, is to swap the transmission from a 2007-vintage S6R-X SRAM 6speed, and fit the Schlumpf Mountain Drive I've had in storage since April. That would make a new S6R/SRAM/MD type for touring, all-steel for strength and rigidity for loaded bike, with 12 evenly spaced gears (my Mountain Drive I bought in 2008 is steel spider, steel chainring, selected for strength), with lower S-bar for more aerodynamic, still the rack to help keep the front pannier small. Relative to the Brompton used above, it would be better gears, better brakes, a lower torso position for faster. I have some camping gear changes in mind to hopefully fit in a S-bag, or at least just a C-bag, both more aerodynamic than the Touring Pannier in the above photos.

I'll then also have a S6L-X/BWR which would be my "day bike" which has good all-round specifications for day rides, not having the very low gears of Mountain Drive for touring with camping gear, but much lighter, and with SON hub for a grab'n'go bike.

I'll then be left with a M2L-X, the lightest Brompton you can make. I'm on/off with a few different ideas there. One is to keep it as a light compact folder is brilliant for many situations. Another is to sell it to release up $$$$ (worth about $2K I hope) because Brompton are struggling to make Titanium parts to aid my selling price upwards and I think a S6L-X is sufficiently close to a M2L-X to make two Titanium Bromptons over-kill (one of them will simply end up not used much). Another option is to move the parts around a bit more, because Titanium is known for its anti-rust and its springiness meaning it will probably be a comfier bike so I'd put Ti on my touring to make a S6R-X/SRAM/MD, a S6L-X/BWR/SON and a M2L and sell the M2L as it is about the same weight as a S6L-X/BWR/SON but I'd obviously be selling a M2L for about $500 less than a M2L-X simply to my make my tourer 1Kg lighter and comfier.

Right now, I'm the midst of the little details of small parts to find to move the bits around between 3 Bromptons, chains and cables and such like and guessing what frame colors will have maximum resale value, and planning the switch-a-rooo .

I have also secured two of the Superlight Brompton front wheels, I'm missing the skewers, which will make whichever bikes have Titanium a little lighter and a little faster.

One of the nicest aspects of Brompton ownership is the resale prices are quite high, the interoperability of the parts you don't end up with no-value discarded parts, I've personally never had a failure of a type I can fault the manufacturer and I've self-serviced. So essentially "free cycling"

bikebuddha 

Feel my jealously from 3000 miles away. That looks like an incredible trip.

NigelHealy

Thanks. My next trip I'm thinking of something 10x the scale. Stronger bike...... lighter camping kit. What I can't predict is how well my fitness and aging joints will be like next summer. Oh well, that's an excuse for living as healthy as I can for next 6 months.

NigelHealy

The bike is ready. Looking after the body and planning the trip is next. My camping gear is in UK, I'm in USA, so what to do.... could buy USA camping gear (Tarptent?) .... or visit UK, do next camping trip there, and come back to USA with camping gear, I need to figure that out. But, the bike is ready.

NigelHealy

I did plenty of testing of my Touring Brompton over Christmas - New Year period, a few hundred miles and no mechanical issues. Its not the fastest bike but its probably the best touring bike I can make. Now I got my next touring Brompton finished, my mind is returning to the camping gear. The Terra Nova Laser Competition was a massive size/weight reduction from my previous tent (a Coleman Viper) , but not perfect. It is small enough to fit comfortably width-ways in the Brompton's 16" wide front luggage panniers, and the TN LC's diameter meant it only took say 25% of the volume of the S-bag bag, all good stuff. However, the roof height still a tad too low, made worse this last camping trip by using as a chair the thicker Neoair relative to previous Prolite, I was touching it with head when sat up in the evening and that was dragging condensation in as I got ready in the morning. The porch fits the Brompton when I centrally place it but I have to push it to the side for entry/exit and for cooking.

So for my next tent, I was thinking of something like the Tarptent Notch. Its only just out and I can wait a few months for owners' feedback.



The two vestibules allow for one for entry-exit and one for the Brompton and then pick whichever based on wind speed for cooking. The outer tent walls are steeper and the porch deeper so looks likely will store a Brompton easily, and probably larger folders.

The funding of the Notch should be self-financing if I sell my Laser Comp, I got it new for far less cost than they're selling new now so I should be able to sell it for within $50 of the cost of the Notch, theoretically.

Am now just 2000 airmiles short of enough for UK visit September, for a repeat run of this 4-day UK Lakes tour, with a better Brompton and possibly too a better tent.

There's that Trangia to replace with "something", which is as flexible as a Trangia but not as large, and I need to try again with an airbed, I'm thinking of a Neoair Xlite for inside the tent and a foam rollmat to put under the outside of the tent to both provide insulation and help reduce wear on the tent floor. The foam mat will probably be strapped to the stop of the rackbox on the rear, and the airbed inside one of the pannier. That combo will mean if the airbed were to get a puncture, I have a puncture-proof foam mat affords something.

NigelHealy

Booked my next UK trip using airmiles, there for 2 weeks in September.

The bike is ready so looking at camping gear. I really want to do the next one using just the Brompton S-bag + rackbox, if possible. I've done that before but the issue was no space to add any food so I'd use a daysack spill-over just before getting to campsite. I suspect it will be C-bag + rackbox rather than T-bag + rackbox from the last trip.

So credit-card has been hit with:

• ordered a new Neoair Xlite small, packed is 230g and 23 x 9 cm which makes it 1.46L, reduced from the Neoair All Seasons I used last time which was 540 g and packed 2.3L. I will have to fabric something under my legs, possibly the Brompton front pannier emptied under my legs?? Possibly not comfortable.
• ordered a Jetboil Sol Ti. This is 0.8L pot plus cup and stores fuel internally, total weight for cooking equipment for a 5 day trip is 495g and volume is 1.32L. This is reducing from the Trangia 27 system plus 500ml of fuel which weighed 1Kg for the Trangia and 0.5Kg for fuel+bottle and total volume 3.2L.

I did look at any tent smaller than the Terra Nova Laser Competition, basically there isn't one worthwhile of the $. Issue in the UK in late September is it usually warm but can become cool so needs to be what is called a dual-skin tent with solid inner and my tent is 1Kg and the best alternative which can fit a Brompton inside is 0.8Kg so I deem that not worthy of change.

So so far I've removed 2.72L which isn't much

Backpackers though who carry the weight on their backs rather than cyclists who carry weight via dropping to a lower gear up a hill (Schlumpf Mountain Drive!) would be keener on the 1.3Kg removed.

wahoonc

Excellent report...and yet again it is pushing me towards a Brompton or two.

I would suggest that you start a blog to catalog your travels on. They are fantastic and I want to see and hear more! I have been to Great Britain...once in the Darlington area. My son spent 3 years in Leeds and traveled all over using buses and trains. I want to go back and ramble about on a bike.

Aaron

NigelHealy

The UK has a decent rail service which gets you within Brompton distance that would be a heck of a trip, you'd need 6 weeks to see everything. There are UK "go everywhere" type cards I've seen, pricey but cheaper than hiring a car. You'd get more freedom B&B touring but my hope is to get camping gear down in size its practically nothing.

Blog - I'm not sure I post enough to need that...? But I accept there's a lot of camping stuff not folding bike stuff in this thread.

wahoonc

I was thinking it would be easier to read and post links to when people ask about touring on folders. You have a lot of great information and the pictures are spectacular. Makes me want to sell the farm, buy a Brompton and head out...as soon as it warms up

Aaron

NigelHealy

So coming up to the next UK Brompton tour, it might actually not be a bike tour as my kit seems to be approach the size/weight I could do backpacking instead. I got some new shoes, some Inov8 Roclite 315 which seem so comfy the usual pain of walking doesn't seem as bad.

Anyhow, the most recent Brompton-friendly purchase is a Tarptent Notch

Here is the packed tent inside the Brompton S-bag



Here is a tour around the tent with the Brompton inside


and view from inside


So why this particular tent? Well:

• Tarptent is a small business, and from looking at forums there is a good customer service, as it turns out I've already had benefit of this
• The Laser Competition is about 850g, the Tarptent Notch is 700g, the optional poles (which fold to the same size as the packed tent) are 100g so total 800g. So light for backpacking and compact for Brompton touring
• Packed size is 14"x4" which calcs as 2.7L, similar to the Laser Comp, a little shorter so the S-bag has a bit more a rounded shape for a little more aerodynamic
• The Brompton in the Laser Comp to not rub the flysheet had to be placed central. For cooking or entry/exit I had to push it to the side and protrude into the flysheet. The Notch has two vestibules so one for the Brompton and the other for entry/exit/cooking
• So in UK in particular the weather varies is unpredictable. In my last UK camping trip it was boiling hot. The Notch can open both vestibules to get a thru-breeze. For sleeping you can have the tent high-up to use any breeze. Or if its colder, lower it down.
• Not all combinations are possible though, you can't lower the tent AND have the Brompton. You can do some half-way compromises like lower the side facing the wind and keep the side stowing the Brompton higher
• Simple to pitch and no need to tune the pitch as only 4 pegs. Tents like the Laser Comp have 12 pegs so e.g. if you put too much tension on one of them it tends to pull the tent a little off-center and makes for some flap somewhere. The 4 pegs produces a set of triangles, e.g the end peg , the top of the pole and the vestibule peg, mean all fabric is in uniform tension, think 3-points on a triangle vs 4 points of a square, a square if 3 are pulling more than the 4th you get a wrinkle, whilst 3-sides can't get wrinkles. This should make it less flappy.
• (customer service) I wanted some extra guy attachments near the pole apex for a few reasons. One is if the windy is strong to help keep the tent in place, but also as the vestibule peg has to be a fairly exactly spot with only a few inch flexibility to find a space between stones, that peg might not be in the ground as well as you'd like and so be a weakspot. Having a guy further out takes some of the stress off the vestibule peg so can lead to an easier pitch. This is more of a problem on campsites. I knew because I had emailed with Tarptent months earlier they could add some guying attachments, but I forgot that when ordering, but Tarptent posted me today some attachments to sew on myself with instructions. Great customer service.
• Headroom was a bit of an annoyance with the Laser Comp, it was just about enough when I bought it, but then I moved from the Prolite to Neoair. In summer this adds comfort, in winter it will add insulation, but it raises me up when sitting up and I was scraping me head. Mostly that's just a slight inconvenience but with condensation it would leading to water getting pushed in and dripping inside. So I wanted a high-headroom replacement.
• So for hiking, where presumably you're going be allowing for colder icy/snowy conditions, you'd have hiking poles ideally, these then give a more rigid structure and tunability as explained above. For biking, tending to be not so cold you'd use the lighter more flexible poles. The lighter poles, you can carry one as a spare when hiking in event a hiking pole were to be broken.
• Overall, a cost-effective flexible solution. To my knowledge, this is the lightest cheapest two-vestibule dual-skin Brompton-sized tent. It didn't exist til November and the part-mesh option came out in February. So not many out there.