well, now a third LBS has given up trying fix this problem. they tried an ultegra RD but it still bumped the dropout. they say that the derailleur hanger is *so* far forward that any derailleur is going to have the same problem.

by any chance did Xootr alter their hanger design? the previous owner had this working (with an old hanger, which is stripped), so maybe that's the problem.

sigh...when I get it back tmw I'll compare the hangers side by side.

Hi everyone,

Well, I purchased my Xootr folder last week and I love it! It is such a *GREAT* bike. I also own a Bike Friday Ticket, but I like the Xootr MUCH better!

I bought it from Oceanworks in Berkeley, California and had a great experience there. It's mainly an automobile repair shop, but the owner (Angus) is a bike enthusiast and knows a lot about bikes in general and the Xootr in particular. I found him to be a really nice guy and he really took his time answering my questions. I highly recommend purchasing from him.

This is my question: I would like to change the gearing so that I can continue peddling while going downhill. Although I haven't done a lot of uphill riding yet, that seems to be fine. However, it looks like I'm going to start spinning out once I get anywhere beyond 30 mph or so.

So, I'm a total newbie here and I'm wondering what you guys can recommend. What do you think the best option is? Would it be best for me to get an internal hub and a front derailleur?

Thanks in advance for your help. This is my first time posting here, but I must say that these forms have been a great resource as I researched the Xootr swift. It's such an unusual bike, but all the back-and-forth here really helped me get a sense of how it works and what you can do to it. Thanks much.

wellslake, welcome to BikeForums!

we Swifties would be most interested to hear why you prefer to Xootr to the Tikit. my understanding is that the Tikit was Bike Friday's response to the Swift (8-speed for $800), so I am curious to hear if you think they didn't pull it off.

re: gearing, I agree with you that the gearing is not that high. A couple of possibilities:
* get a bigger front chainring. some on this thread have gone up a few teeth and can provide suggestions. you don't need a front derailleur to get a bigger chainring, though I suppose that is a way to do it without replacing the crank.
* do waht i did, which was to go with a Shimano "Capreo" 9-speed cassette that has a teensy 9-tooth small cog. thing is, if you do that then you also need the Capreo hub in your wheel.

I love the idea of going with an IGH. among other things, that will make the bike easier to fold and pack. but you will pretty much have to re build your rear wheel to do that.

good luck!!

Hi Mtalinm

Thanks very much for the reply.

With respect to the gearing, are you saying that the internal hub option is not the best one in your view? (Sorry . . . I'm still trying to sort out the pros and cons of the various possibilities).

As for the Bike Friday Ticket versus Xootr Swift question, I see it as a ride versus portability issue. That is, the ticket IS more portable, but the Xootr rides *way* better. (In my case, I bought the Ticket in NYC, where portability was a big priority, but now I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, where there are tons of hills and I have *way* more space than before). At 5'11''/190 lbs, I really didn't like using the Ticket on hills: it felt too "twitchy" going down and I always feared that I'd snap the steering post by pulling on it when I went uphill).

sure thing...good to ear that the Swift rides better. that has been my sense though the BFr crowd passionately begs to differ. you might start a thread in the Folding Bikes forum describing your experience, though prepare to be flamed by the Eugene diehards...

I'm not saying not to get an internal hub, just that you should check the top gear before dropping hundred$ on the IGH and the wheel rebuild etc. I'm sure others more mechanically inclined than I am will have plenty of opinions!

I agree that the Swift is probably the best ride out there, plus probably the most versatile. I ditched my roadie and plans to get a titanium one when getting the Swift.

The quickest easiest way to get higher gearing is the bigger chainwheel option. Vuelta make up to 60T and is the most affordable. You will need some way of preventing chain drop. A big custom guard, or a little guide wheel, or a front derailer are possible options. I made a little custom guard that sits over the chain to arrest S-waves. Even a simple stiff wire fastened in some fashion over the chain just behind the chainwheel may be enough. But you will need it, if not now then later when the chain wears in a bit and develops more play.

There are cheap wheels at amazon right now, 451 size, that will give you higher gearing. You will need alternative brakes and rubber as well.

Hey Guys,

Thanks very much for the replies. I really appreciate it.

What do you think of the set up described at Peter Reich's website (https://www.swiftfolder.com/):

He says that this is a popular set up:

- - -
WHEELS: 20" X 1.5" Sun CR-18 aluminum alloy rims with DT stainless spokes, handbuilt and trued, using Shimano’s Alfine 8 speed internally geared hub (derailleur and single speed setups are also available), 100 psi Schwalbe Marathon Racer tires.

COMPONENTS: Sugino R-48 crankset and bottom bracket, Ritchey Logic headset, Avid brakes and levers, Kalloy handlebars and stem, Velo saddle.

- - -

How well do you think that would perform and how expensive would it be?

Thanks very much.

The only things that I would change with that setup is I might swap out the the Alfine with a Sturmey Archer 8 speed. Its 1:1 is in first gear, so is better suited to small wheels.

I'd also go with Kojaks over Marathon Racers, but that is such a personal choice, it's hardly worth mentioning.

IMHO, the Swift just works better with internal gear hubs. The combination of derailleur hanger placement, and seat-stay angles can make certain derailleur setups a bit of kludge.

Thanks very much, Bendembroski. Big help!

I'm sorry for asking such a dumb question, but I'll do it any way: when you use internal hub, do you also use a front derailleur? Sorry, but I'm trying to figure out how you go from having seven or eight gears (thanks to the internal hub) to twenty one or more.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, or is it that there are only eight speeds in Peter Reich's set up (that I listed three posts before), but that the range of his set up would allow you to avoid spinning out on steep downhills?

you have to bikes to compare against, see if you can compute the gear inches for the lowest and highest gear for the alfine 8 (probalby 30" and 90"). then do the same for your existing swift and tikit. if any of your existing bikes are geared higher and you like those gears better, that would give you a good start for what gears you want in your upgraded swift

Thanks for the comment, Nish. For my sake, I'm not happy with the gearing on the my Swift or my Ticket. In both cases, I spin out pretty quickly when going downhill.

Sorry, I have a really dumb question, but what I'm trying to understand is this: are the internal hubs that we've been discussing (Alfine and Sturmey Archer 8 speed) geared in such a way that they will probably stop me from spinning out on downhills or will I also need a front derailleur?

Thanks very much. I'm a total newbie.

My twopenneth on getting bigger gears is +1 for the bigger chainring being the simplest and cheapest way to do. I have a TA rings 61T and 57T.

I would stick with 406 wheels as the tyres are better. I have both 406 and 451 wheels (451 has capreo hub for big gears) however I prefer 406 with the 61T chainring because the Kojak is such a great tyre and the speed/comfort/weight benefits of running kojaks far outweigh the benefits of large gears. You need something to keep the chain on - you can get standalone chain cages that go where the front mech would, or you can get a front mech. When running a big front chainring, run it as close to the bike as possible (for a standard 2-ring crankset that would be in the 'inner' position like on the standard swift) - if you run it too far out the chain rubs on the seatstays in top gear as was discussed a few weeks ago on this forum.

Folding bikes are a compromise - you can't have everything, and spinning out on hills isn't so bad - you can only go so fast downhill before you are going too fast to be able to stop if you had to.

I have been at 84km/h on my Swift (with 60/11T and 406 wheels). Spinning out is irrelevant at higher speeds - you can go faster by doing an aero tuck than just brute pedaling furiously. So on long downhills, if you really want to speed up, tuck in your elbows and knees and hunch over the bars, because pedaling won't do it.

The pros all coast downhill (e.g. the Tour de France). If it was worthwhile pedaling they'd fit bigger top gears. Instead they concentrate on getting aero and not crashing. Sounds sensible to me.

You can't use a front derailleur, or you'd need a rear mech too (which defeats the object, though probably possible). You need to find out the ratios of the hub gears you're looking at. For the Alfine, the range is 306% (which is equivalent to a 11-34T cassette range) starting with 0.53 to 1.62. Next you choose what you need as a lowest gear, and work out a chainring/sprocket combination that gets close to that. For me I need a 40" low gear minimum but ideally 35". Alfine sprockets are 18 or 20. I would find out if you can go smaller. So for me a 61T front chainring with 18T rear would to the job, giving me a 34" low gear (because that is (61/18) * 0.53 * 18.8 (wheel diameter with Kojaks)). The upper gear would then be 103". A spreadsheet is your friend here - play around with different combinations. I just knocked one up for the Alfine and it's clear that this is designed for large wheel bikes so you still need a massive chainring or a smaller-than-standard sprocket to compensate for the small wheels.

First gear in the Sturmey Archer is 1:1, with all the higher gears overdrive. This is great for smaller wheeled bikes, as you can get a taller top-end without going to a huge chainring. I'm too lazy to do the maths right now, but I'm pretty sure that 38 teeth up front and 20 in the rear will easily give you over 100 gear - inches.

wellslake, i'm too lazy to do the math too right now, mabye later, rickybails response is a good start with some details you can work with. you might have to brwose the web to understadn what gear ration and gear inches mean, it won't be that hard to find explanations of.

unrelated, but do you guys have any votes for clip on rear fenders. i'm using the sks xtra dry on back with planet bike/swift front fenders. the sks xtra dry is too short to fully cover wheel. i found some interesting options when i was looking around, some that might even be able to stay on the bike as it folds, without any detachment:

https://www.topeak.com/products/Fenders/defender_xc11 - 22 inches long, would have to detach when folding

https://www.topeak.com/products/Fende...enderR1_R2_Set - not sure if this can be adapted to small wheels, longer wheel base of folders. but looks like could easily be lightly released from brake levers when folding. would also cover the best as very close to wheel.

https://www.zefal.com/zefal/produit.php?key=244001 - my top pick, could clearly allow for no interference with fold. not sure if it is too short, or if the seat stays are too wide on swift frame for it to mount

https://www.ridepdw.com/goods/fenders...%E2%84%A2-rear - not sure if it can handle bigger seatpost. i like its compactness when detached. i could picture carryign this in my backpack by default, thus it not interefering with fold except on rainy days

https://www.sks-germany.com/?l=en&a=p...9&X-BLADE%2029 - a longer sks fender. i like that it has a little compartment forward which will block some more spray from the quick releases. this one woudl be annoying when detaching on each fold, as i already experience with the sks xtra-dry


there are two decent options from planet bike too...

flipper - https://ecom1.planetbike.com/7000.html

spoiler - https://ecom1.planetbike.com/7030.html

on a footnote, i'm getting rid of my planet bike rear fender/swift version, if anybody wants it for free. (i'm mailing it to bfold in nyc, if you want it, stop by there, you cna probably grab it real cheap or free). it came loose a few times from folding, so i don't think highly of it. others here have also not liked it. but it does cover well. if you want to try it, here's your chance.

I currently have a Topeak Defender on my Swift. I think it has been re-designed since I bought mine. It is the only one I could find that would clamp arount the Swift's 34mm seat post and it does a good job as well as looking quite sporty. You do have to remove it to fold the bike (if you use the seat post to hold it all together) but it is not a big job.

thanks!

i went with the second topeak one, for road bikes, for now. if that doesn't fit, i'm going to try the zefal one. both of them are interesting to me because of the no detach when folding. i think the pdw one will be too short. after those, i'd try sks 29" and then the defender. the sks ones seem quicker to release from seatpost in my experience so far.

strange that the defender works for you, but the sks xtradry extends almost the same distance, might be a matter of one inch!

gor a different upright bar after trying out a bunch of them.



civia aldrich 50 degree sweep. close runners up were the on-one mary - riser mountain bike bars. soma sparrow. surly open bar.

i was surprised that i didn't like the nitto north road bars, too much sweep (almost straight back). nor did i like any bars with much more sweep than 60 degrees. or less than 40 or so

i've been using civia loring or dupont handlebars for 9 months now.

i'm too lazy to take a photo, i'll do it next time i have some significant other change

i finally paid for the klickfix caddy to replace my longer seatpost adapater (per people's advice a while back), almost have identical baggage mounts to paul now (:, i think it is much nicer, less centrifical force then extended mount i had before, almost like frame/headtube mounted. plus it handles 4 more lbs of weight. photo worthy, will edit this post soon with photo.

i'm kind of craving a rear rack, but i don't see how i can carry 3 bags(instead of 2 bags, one a backpack) and the folded bike in hand all at the same time, onto an amtrak, or subway train.

I put a bontager rear rack on my xootr with some p-clips I don't feel it is very stable. I don't like climbing out of the saddle with it.

Further to the above, I've just fitted a pair of Dahon 20" mudguards to my Swift. They went on very easily with no modifications needed and look very good. I haven't had the chance to use them yet and will submit a photo when I get the chance.