yangmusa

Hey Wav (or anyone else), after your advice on the Brompton, maybe you have some great tips for the Swift too?

My previous bikes with internal hubs have had semi-horizontal drop outs, so getting the wheel out has been very easy. On my Swift Peter has set up the chain length so that the hub axle is all the way forward in the track end slot. Hence, even if I loosen the hub axle, there's no way to create slack on the chain for me to slip the chain off the cog. The only way I can see to get the rear wheel off is to undo the master chain link, and that seems like an excessive amount of effort just to get a wheel off (especially for roadside tube changes, though I would generally just add a patch without removing the wheel)

Thanks!

Wavshrdr

Have you tried moving the chain off the front sprocket? If you can, add one link to the chain so you have more slack when you loosen the hub up. You could add a few links and then a singulator style device that acts as a chain tensioner if you need too. You can use my technique as written in another thread. It is the one I used on my Brompton. I think you may have already read that thread but for others it could be useful.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...&postcount=456

Just store the spare tube already on the frame once you remove the rear wheel.

dubes

Well, I see that no one has responded, so permit me to suggest you contact Peter at Design Mobility about your requirements. His contact information is available here. As the co-designer, Peter might have some ideas about how to create what you want.

commander_taco

I am not sure why your hub is setup that way (bad idea IMO). I suggest you get an extra chain link and add it. If you are concerned that the hub will slide forward then add a MKS chain tensioner (one meant for alu frames).
my 2c

james_swift

2 options:

1.) Put an extra link in the chain. You'll need to readjust the brake pads, as the wheel will need to be pulled back to take-up the extra slack. If the rear axle is long enough, you can use an axle tug to keep the rear wheel in adjustment. I have RedLines on my Swift and my Dahon (SA-5 internal).

2.) Put an extra link in the chain and use a spring-loaded chain tensioner. Not very elegant looking, and you'll be adding friction to the drivetrain.

Bacciagalupe

Packing

OK, so I've got a short tour in Ireland coming up at the end of the month. I still have to pick up a suitcase, although I have a crappy 32" suitcase that I can use for "packing practice."

Any comments / suggestions / improvements over the packing instructions listed on the Xootr site?

JonathanG

I took my Xootr to Italy and if you follow the directions on the Xootr site it's pretty easy to pack. The only thing I'd add is that if you have the Xootr model, on which the paint is pretty liable to scratching so wrap each tube in bubble wrap or cardboard. I didn't do this and my bike has the scratches to show for it. Also, even with a 32" suitcase the fit is a bit snug, which puts some stress on the frame, so I'd highly recommend getting an exterior compression strap just to make sure the suitcase doesn't pop open when (not if) it's dropped by a baggage handler.

Jonathan

Bacciagalupe

Stress on the bike frame or the suitcase frame? And you have to remove the derailleur, correct?

Any thoughts on removing the hinge?

maunakea

The Samsonite N'Flite (?) has served me well for my steel Swift ... but with internal struts of PVC. With the N'Flite, the risk is not flying open, it's compression of the flexible sides.

14R 

i used an "el cheepo" semi-hard luggage and used PVC pipes (about 6 or 7) when I travelled with a DT. Arrived intact after 11 connections.

JonathanG

Although the suitcase was banged around a bit -- one of the three latches came loose, so I'm glad I used a compression strap -- I haven't noticed any problem with the frame.
I'm not sure if you have to remove the derailleur, but that's what the Xootr site suggests, and that's what I did. It really reduces the risk of a bent deraillerur, which would mess up the indexing.
I think if you remove the hinge you can fit the bike into a smaller (29") suitcase, as Alex Wetmore has done here with an older steel frame Swift, but I haven't tried it.
Jonathan

Bacciagalupe

Hrm, it does not seem to be working with a 31" Samsonite F'lite over here....

How much do you have to disassemble to get it in the case?

maunakea

Bac, it only goes in one way... as shown here:
https://www.xootr.com/xootr/swift/packing.shtml

The most critical placement is of the maintube to the upper right corner. That end is actually above the top of the lower part of the suitcase, but the top part has enough clearance.

Remember to include a picture (even from the link) of how the bike is packed for TSA/security. My packed Swift has been inspected every time I have flown with it.

invisiblehand

Have you seen these websites on packing the Swift?

Here is an older steel swift being packed into a 29" Samsonite Oyster.
https://www.phred.org/~alex/bikes/bf-vs-swift.html

Of course, here is the Xootr website on packing the bike into the 31" case.
https://www.xootr.com/xootr/swift/packing.shtml

Bacciagalupe

OK, I got it.... the fork got turned around on my 1st attempt, I think that's all it took to keep the frame from fitting. Talk about a tight fit....

Not to mention a slightly messy pack, since you need to remove the derailleur. Do y'all leave the chain intact, or do anything to keep it in line during transport?

Wavshrdr

The derailleur is why I went with an internal hub. MUCH easier to pack and less messy. No issues re-indexing everything when you get it out of the case. I learned my lesson the hard way with a Dahon. I spent more time fitting the derailleur back on than getting the rest of the bike ready to ride.

maunakea

Bac, put a master link, e.g., a SRAM Gold, in the chain, and put the dismounted chain in a bag when packing. Much less messy.

Wav, my Swift started out with an S-A hub, but the additional hub weight (the 50 lb checked bag limit) bothered me more than having to re-index the RD.

Wavshrdr

I don't know how much you are saving with a derailleur vs. the SA hub. I know the Nexus on mine isn't that heavy. If you compare the weight of the Nexus red label vs. the derailleur, gear cluster, extra chain and the actual hub itself and the longer spokes neded I don't think you will find there is a huge weight savings. I haven't weighed it but I bet it the difference isn't as much as you suspect. Most people just compare the weight of the internal hub vs. maybe the derailleur and cluster but you need to factor everything else in as well.

While I give up a bit in efficiency that is offset by where I ride and how dirty my chain used to get because of the low hanging derailleur.

maunakea

Wav, the Nexus RL 8 is significantly lighter than the S-A 7. The other factor is changing flats on the rear. I'm familiar with the stow-a-spare technique, but I don't have fenders on the Swift on which to cable-tie the spare tube. Maybe because of doing it every trip, but I can set up an RD faster than the LBS (which has high turnover in techs, admittedly). That's the Swift. DT is a diff story: I do want a Red Label for a strange reason.... bus bike racks trash the RD on my DT FS. The racks don't bother RDs on 700c wheels, but on the 406s.... mangle city.

yangmusa

"S-A 7"? Edit: I'm reminded that it does exists It's no longer listed on Sturmey-Archer's website though, so I haven't found any numbers for it.

I looked up the weights of the various hubs from the manufacturers' websites:
SRAM Spectro 7: 1556 grams (3.43 lbs)
Nexus SG-8R25 8: 1550 grams (3.41 lbs)
Sturmey-Archer XRF8: 1500 grams (3.3 lbs)

They are all very close in weight, and to be honest I doubt most people would notice a difference of 56 grams! (One might well notice differences in efficiency, but I don't have any hard numbers on this. Anecdotally, the Nexus is said to be better)

Fear&Trembling

S-A did, and I think still do (?), produce the 7 speed Sprinter hub...

yangmusa

Peter advized me to make some changes to the cable routing, so now the shift cable goes over the main hinge on the left (as before) and then goes over the top of both chainstays and on the outside right of the chain into the rear triangle and the hub attachment. Maybe kind of hard to explain, but I can take a picture if someone's really interested. The old routing had the cable going over the main hinge, then under the chainstays and inside the rear triangle to the hub. The new routing definitely has less sharp curves in it, but I had expected the effects on the shifting to be minimal. Actually, it was quite noticable. When upshifting (especially from 3 -> 4) there used to be a delay, but that has pretty much gone. Presumably that was due to friction where the cable was sharply bent before.

I've also been thinking about Wav's comments on the Sturmey shifter. I must admit that when I first unpacked the shifter it seemed very plasticky and cheap. However, it feels much more solid when installed and I quite like the shift feel and action. I felt the Nexus shifter on a bike in my local bikeshop the other day, and it felt very stiff by comparison (that could just be the way they set it up?) but I didn't ride the bike so don't know what it would be like in real use. I guess shifters are very much a personal thing.

yangmusa

Oh, my mistake. Their website no longer lists it.. I see Harris Cyclery still have the 7 speed Sprinter in stock though!

Bacciagalupe

Well, I need a new saddle anyways.... I'll talk to the shop about the master link concept.


If I toured more than once or twice a year and in any rough environments, I'd have gone with a BF anyway. I dig the Swift quite a bit, but let's face it, it was not originally designed to pack. It's more of a happy accident that it (barely!) fits into a huge suitcase.

Why would you need to re-index? I didn't have any issues taking off and replacing the derailleur, shifting works just fine after my test disassembly / reassembly, and with it off I can't imagine you'd have to do anything more than at worst tweak the barrell adjuster....

Wavshrdr

On my DT the SA shifter is much stiffer than the any of the Nexus I have (4 in total). The SA shifts positively (i.e. no missed shifts) but it takes more effort either stationary and far more effort to downshift while movie. Shimano took great pains to make sure the Nexus would shift well under load. So far nobody with an internal hub matches them in this area.

Having said that I am still impressed with the SA in many ways. IF I could get the shift quality of the Nexus with the gear steps of the SA, I’d be very interested in one on one of my bikes. The Nexus will easily downshift under load with no issues. You don’t need to backpedal (like some SAs) or let off the pedals a lot, you just click to the next gear and away you go. Another plus if is if you like mtb. bike style shifter (trigger) rather than twistgrip. The Nexus is also available with this style as well.

So Nexus 8spd (red label) is still my favorite internal hub because of its efficiency and great shift quality. It has as wide a range as everyone else and its 5th gear is the one I use the most and that is where it is most efficient. The downside for the SA is first gear is its 1:1 (most efficient) ratio. I make it point to setup my internal hubs so the majority of my riding will be in the 1:1 ratio. This isn’t possible on the SA.