Any makers looking into offering an S and S coupled Pinion drive frame? It would seem like a custom frame builder who already does S and S coupling might be in a good position to do so, or is that mixed up thinking?

I imagine that most people that could make a Pinion frame could also do S and S, no problem. Probably harder to find someone willing to use a gearbox

I'm looking into Splitbikes to replace my SandS, there is gearbox too. Any comments on splitbikes? Can;t seem to find any reviews.

Looks to be just another method of taking apart a bike. I'd like to see one in person to better tell if this is a better way. But I doubt it.

By pinion frame do you mean a drive shaft instead of a chain? Andy.

I assume that he was talking about the Pinion gearbox

That sucker is HEAVY (2200g - 2700g depending on the model).

Unterhausen is correct, I'm referring to the bottom bracket based gear system from Germany with more range than a Rohloff. It also centers the weight on the bike rather than making you tail heavy like any internal gear hub with more than 5 gears does.

It also makes taking the rear wheel off both for travel purposes and fixing flats much simpler than with an IGH.

Other than the weight, it seems a perfect match for an S and S coupled configuration to me for a travel bike.

might be ok, but you have to remember airlines have weight limits as well as size limits

20 kg in Europe, right? 44 pounds to us Americans, and here I think it's usually a 50 pound limit.

I've flown with my Bike Friday and Terns and Bromptons without issue, and the Bike Friday has a Rohloff, but I understand the current 18 speed Pinion is heavier still, so I guess the question would be, can a Pinion drive bike frame be made out of lightweight enough steel to keep the overall weight down without impacting safety?

Also the upcoming 12 and 9 gear Pinion versions should be somewhat lighter I'm guessing... if I were loaded touring I would want that incredible gear range from the 18 speed Pinion and a tandem grade steel frame and fork , but for a dedicated travel bike I would certainly look at a 12 speed Pinion.

Not that I need yet another travel bike, of course, but the technology fascinates me.

My 61cm Reynolds 953 OS frame (frame only, no headset or bottom bracket) weighs 1650g (a little over 3.6 lbs) and is quite dent resistant in spite of tubing walls as thin as 0.3mm. It would be an interesting project.

Pinions advantage is weight is being centered and low, builders were using Rohloffs as a mid drive..

Using the 4 bolt disc mount to put a chainring on the left end of the hub casing, driving a left end cog

on a fully suspended long travel rear suspension bike .. actual mass of wheel on the end of the suspension, minimal.


best use fast downhill single track.. and cliff dropping slaloms.

Standard S&S bikes in my size (58) no longer fit all airline minimums.

they didn't change, as far as I know

When he says size 58 he is referring to road bike sizing and road bike geometry in that size may well exceed a 26" by 26" by 10" suitcase.

However, an S and S coupled large framed 20" (large) mountain or hybrid geometry might well fit if the rider is OK with riding that geometry rather than road bike geometry.

I'm confused. The S&S website allegedly shows a 62cm Waterford road bike packed into the 26" x 26" x 10" case. Admittedly, the crank has to come off, but it would appear to fit (I used a Gerber Variable Scale to verify the case in the 3-D images of the packing sequence is a 10" case).

Packing sequence for a 62cm road bike with ergo style shifters

I certainly wouldn't think that a 58 would have any problem. I guess the worst problem area is the front triangle, but that could be mitigated by having the downtube cut a little further away from the bb shell. That 62 even has the fork on it

That's impressive. Perhaps MassiveD will return to clarify what he meant then.

I put this together from some of the photos and drawings on the S&S website. I'm seriously considering having Waterford put S&S couplers on my 61cm RS-22, so I've been interested in verifying it would actually fit in a 26 x 26 x 10 S&S hard case. Based on what I've been able to determine so far, it should work.



Here's the yellow Waterford 62cm bike in the S&S website photos ready to ride.

I had some one charged any how, in the Shop, recently .

Airport Conversation went Q; whats in the case? A ; Bike parts .

Q; can I Look? (Company ticket counter, not TSA) A; I have no objections

Opening case Airline employee says "It's a Bike , thats another $150.-"

I would have raised holy hell. If it fit within the weight and linear dimensions specifications for "no surcharge" checked luggage, it shouldn't make any difference what's in it as long as it's not classified as too dangerous to be checked.

they may have been denied boarding , entirely, too ... security,packin 'heat', called .

I have checked my Brompton many times on several different air lines in a 26" x 26" x 10" hard case without paying a surcharge or having any hassles. When asked what's in it, I always say it's a folding bicycle.

It all depends on the individual employee and the airline policy.
they could be under pressure to boost revenue where ever possible.


I havent been on a plane since my Father's Funeral in august of 2000.. PDX-SFO-PDX.