Agreed,
I never see enough female cyclists in their 20s. Don't go to England. Stay in Canada, specifically Edmonton.

As far as bike snobs go, I've felt the opposite at times. Most of the cyclists I know ridebicycles that have been thrown together from nothing much more than the scrap heap and some talented mechanics. I feel somewhat out of place when I wander over on my aluminum trek.

The only time I ever encounter higher end cyclists is when they have a flat and want to borrow my pump or when one of those roadies is on an inspired sprint past me. I welcome anyone who wants to really kick out a little speed on the bicycle, particularly uphill. Cycling is a very solitary sport and can easily be mistaken as snobbish when one rides at his or her own pace. If a roadie comes flying past me from behind, I'll often kick it myself and draft the roadie. From time to time, I'll end up with a riding companion. No words need be exchanged even, just acknowledgement or a quick "good day". In the city it's still rare to keep a riding companion for more than a few blocks. Everyone's always taking a different round to some other destination.

This is exactly what I mean about "snobbishness." The original poster, and everyone else who has complained about "snobbishness" -- partucularly about serious sport cyclists who appear to be snobs about having the "latest gear or lightest bike" -- is simply imputing motives that may not be there. How do you know someone thinks he's better than you? How do you know, evehn if he does, that this is not a moral or value judgment, but a simple observation of relative strength? Maybe a serious rider doesn't want to ride -- on an organized ride -- with a guy on a 50 lb Wal-Mart bike because he knows that the speed is going to be be waaaaaaaaay slow and that he's going to have to pull the guy on the Huffy the whole way.

Unless someon says "I'm better that you are," how could you possibly know what he's thinking? Talk about jumping to conclusions!

But jumping to conclusions is what this is all about, as jollyroger's post indicates. I went back and read every post in this thread. No one has written that he [or she] is "sure they can ride better than or can beat almost anyone else in the forum." The closest anyone came to that was me, when I wrote: "I'm sure Velo, RacerX and Lotek could smoke my ass in almost any competition [except maybe Trivial Pursuit]. Rich could kill me in cyclocross. They are better than me. [Probably... having never actually ridden with any of them, I can't say for sure.]"

This is quite a different thing. [And I would add nathank, Xavier and WoodyUpstate, and others to the list.] Jollyroger simply jumps to the conclusion -- utterly unsupported by anything anyone wrote -- that I think I could be anyone in this forum. If he can be so wronfg about something so explicit and painfully obvious, how can he, or anyone, know what another cyclist is thinking well enough to call him a snob?

I'll be honest here. I do think that a guy on a 50 lb X-Mart bike wold hold me back on a ride. I don't know for sure, and I have seen some pretty strong people on pretty crummy bikes. On the other hand, I also know that he probably doesn't train like I do, and he probably doesn't have the same cycling goals that I have. I'm sorry if he's offended, but I simply would not want to ride with him for that reason. That's not being a snob; that's being realistic.

You know guys there is a big difference here. We are not talking about a guy on a x-mart bike wanting to ride with guys on $5000 Litespeeds we are talking about being friendly. There is absolutely no reason why the guys on there expensive bikes can't say hi when someone on any kind of bike says hi or waves or whatever.

I have a $900 Specialized road bike and a $500 Trek mountain bike. No matter who I pass on the mountain bike they will either return a wave or say hi. Now on the road I run into snobs all the time. Do I care? Hell no. I am out to enjoy myself and compete with myself to become a better cyclist and there are plenty of great people out there that will help.

Just let the snobs be snob they are probably miserable people anyway.

I will add this. I do ride with guys that do have the $5000 bikes and where $800 worth of clothes and accessories that are not snobs at all but just great helpful riders.

So sometimes it is just the person.

Like everyone else has said just ride. If you x-mart bike is heavy just think how strong you'll be when you get a lighter bike.

I don't mind, it's just that some of the real muscle-bound gym types have this attitude thing, as if you're just taking up useless space and preventing them from pursuing the perfect body. And I don't like having my rhythm disrupted. Once, I let a guy do sets on the ab machine- it turned out to be a set of 1000! Next time, forget it! But if I'm taking a break, fine, it's just that I don't like to stop as much as they don't like to stop.

As for cyclists, I find that a lot of men are impressed when they see a woman on a bike and look very approving (especially on hot days when I unzip, LOL). But there are always snotty jerks in any sport, and I've found they are snotty wo both sexes.

Thank you Amir and Velo. You made what I said bigger than what it really was, and you gave me my time in the spotlight. Thanks.

The problem is, how do you 'know' who I was talking about? What makes you think I was even referring to someone in this particular forum?

If anyone wishes to attack me, please do. No skin off my nose. All I ask is that if you do, please try, at least, to do so based on facts

If you want to call me a snob, consider these facts. Since you don't know me, all I can do is ask you to trust me for what I say.

Fact 1: I don't know anyone in this forum well enough to call them a snob, and nobody knows me that well either.

Fact 2: I'm sure everyone here could beat me. I'm 50 years old, just starting back after 10 years off the bike, and working on getting in biking shape. I don't care who can beat me, I ride because I love to ride.

Fact 3: I do not ride a Wal-Mart bike, I ride a K-Mart bike.

Fact 4: I like people, all people.

Fact 5: I would like nothing more than to be friends.

Have a nice day.

jollyroger1127,

if your ever in NW Georgia I'll ride with you. I don't care what kind of bike you ride. I ride faster than some and not as fast as others, but the only one I race with is me.

I am 49 and just started riding again about 5 months ago after many years of not riding and had a hard time riding 10 miles. I rode 52 last Saturday and 68 on Sunday. I plan on riding 75 this Saturday.

So just keep riding and if your happy with the bike you ride that is all that matters.

Is there a tiny, pulpy scrap of this dead horse lying somewhere in the forum for me to whip?

Velocipedio is correct: You can't possibly know what someone is thinking (hence what their motives are for their actions); however...

--Begin Rant--
...I don't give a %$*@ what they are thinking; I care about how they are acting! Stop me if I've got a warped perspective, but aren't we defined by our actions? If we're hanging around the start area before a ride, and I smile or say "hi" to you (or try to start a rapport in whatever fashion), and you give me the cold-shoulder/blank-stare/curt-reply, well then I don't really give a bent spoke what you're thoughts or motives are; your actions are not cool. I might define it as snobbish, or I might just define it as unfriendly; whatever, IMHO, good intentions are a poor excuse for bad actions. Going out on a limb here, I would guess that it was the actions of some folks that offended Fireman Phil.
--End Rant--

Anyway, sorry about that; I get touchy when my bunions are acting up.

There's only one local bike club and being that this is Boca Raton (Palm Beach la-te-da), you can only imagine the heights to which bike snobbery is taken. I couldn't even get a return phone call or email when I enquired as a beginning cyclist if there was a place for me in their club. Must be by invitation only.

There ya go!

You think he/she might hold you back but you really don't know. You're judging that person by their bike. That person is probably working harder on the IYO "crummy bike" and just may be able to outride you and others.

Maybe you should start your own club, OceanRider, for people who just want to ride.

(Oooh, you're right near Mort Walker's Museum of Cartoon Art, aren't you? I'm jealous.)

hey, how 'bout a bike ride?

I have been following this thread since the beginning. My two cents:

Certain facts of life:

a) people are/can be snobs.

b) most will not admit to things which are seen as negative. Though the SA (snob anaymous) thread was just perfect!

c) people are judgemental.

d) see b)

At this point the only thing I can say is it is time to let it go.

Yes I know a guy that is 63 years old that can probably beat about 90% of the guys on their fancy road bikes on either one of his mountain bikes. After all it is not the bike it is the motor.

I like Inkwolf's idea of starting a club for people who just want to ride. But then I worry that I might become a snob too as mostly happens when things become too organized. Maybe I'll just post personal ads for ride partners who just want to go out and play.

Kathy

So much gear, so little $$

I have to agree with Velocipedio. He isn't judging someone's entire persona based on their bike, he's assessing their ability. ANd I think it's reasonable for the guys in the bike club to have reservations about someone who they don't know, showing up in a walmart bike. It doesn't seem likely that someone on a heavy, department tore bike is going to be able to keep up with riders on lighter road bikes, especially on hills, and they're probably thinking, 'I'm going to have to keep going back and making sure this guy doesn't get dropped.' It doesn't mean he can't ride at all, but those bikes have limittions. I wouldn't attempt it, personally! He may be able to outride the guys in the club but I doubt it if he's on a walmart bike.

There are bike snobs and then there are bike snobs. There's a difference between someone who takes their ride so seriously that they're absorbed in the challenge and someone who takes themself so seriously that they find it a challenge to wave or say hello. The first type of snob I have no argument with and snob is probably not the appropriate label. It's the second type I have a gripe about but then it takes all kinds to make this world, doesn't it...

A message to both though, sometimes it's that friendly gesture of going out of your way to help a newbie or even just a hello at the right moment that turns a newcomer into a riding partner.

Kathy

So much gear, so little $$




Kathy

The bottom line is : "It's all good!". I confess that I like higher end stuff, but what is important is that we DO ride, not WHAT we ride. That is our common thread. I am brand new to this group, and I have noticed that there seems to be no shortage of great bike people on this forum.

The club ride situation shouldn't be that complicated. It seems to me that if it's at all organized the pace, goals and etc. should be known to all who show up for the ride. If the club leaders say that we're going to hammer today and if you get dropped, you get dropped then a new person knows what's up and can base participation decisions accordingly.

In the same vein if the people leading the ride have told everybody what's up they've got no business looking down on anyone who chooses to ride regardles of what they're sitting on. As they say when you buy a lottery ticket. "You never know...."

As has been said, there's a lot of different people out there with a lot of different biking styles. I myself like to tour in a leisurely way, taking frequent breaks (have a swim, write a poem, stop & look at the cemeteries, yard sales, explore abandoned houses, etc.) I'm lucky if I cover 50 miles in a day. And.... I wear sandals! You wouldn't believe how many people (i.e. other bikers encountered along the way) take it upon themselves to comment on my shoe-wearing habits, saying I "should" wear the proper bicycle shoes. I suppose if I was more concerned about speed, I would be motivated to wear proper bicycle attire.... but I'm not!

I rode with a group only once, and never again. They really cramp my style! I think I have more fun than the person who covers 100 miles but only sees pavement & the insides of cafes & taverns at the designated stops. I guess in my own way Im a judgemental snob too, eh? ;-)

My commuting style is totally different. Then I'm out for speed. But if I'm touring, I figure getting there is most of the fun.

PS If you happen to see a middle aged gal in Wisconsin wearing sandals happily pedaling along lay off about the shoes OK? Please just assume that Ive made an informed decision to have cool non-sweaty feet!!

Catya

Your style of riding sounds fantastic. Nothing wrong with that.

I would say one thing about your footwear though. My only concern would be a safety concern. If something happens, regular shoes may help keep you from suffering road rash, or worse, getting your foot caught and lacerated in some way.

Please be careful. Injuries to the foot itself can be worse in the long run than road rash to the legs.

Have fun, but stay healthy to have that fun.

I don't know why people are making comments about the sandals. They make sandles you can put cleats on for clipless pedals. I think it is Shimano that makes them.

Not my cup of tea, but whatever makes you happy.

there are snobby bikers out there, but with any hobby.... you should go into a high end audio store and talk with some of these people. quality doesn't always equate with $$$ but more times than not it can.

i'd prefer to get quality for the least expense. so i went for the lowest end of the high end stuff. (the best for the money if spent)

i am in awe of the people who use their bikes for commuting/errands or when i see older people in cities using their bikes replete with basket/paniers to carry home groceries from the store. these are cyclists!! that makes me the anti-snob.

the only reason why i love when i see people with $$$$$bikes/accessories is because i see the prices coming down so maybe i can afford it some day. i remember when clipless came out. i dreamed about it for years till the prices came down to more reasonable levels. prices on this stuff almost always come down with increased purchasing, right?

My wife and I were riding on the Frisco bike path in Summit County, CO, yesterday.

This section of the trail is windy and a little steep, and there is a white line separating the two sides.

As it is Saturday afternoon in a resort area, there are (and you ride with this expectation) a lot of new folks riding, folks of different skills, folks with children and pulling baby trailers, etc. It is simply a part of the Gestalt, and don't ride there unless you agree to all the related issues of mulit-leveled bike riders on a single path. It is, after all, a recreation trail.

As I am going up, down comes two roadies in all their paraphernalia riding high-end bikes, going as if they expected all to clear out of their way. They were moving along about 35 mph.

So, my wife is about 200 feet behind me in low gear on her mtn bike going up the middle of her lane. The roadie, going too fast, needed to fully crowd her lane to make it through. She was fully on her side, but instead of slowing down a bit, he yells at her, "Lady, stay on the right!"

She was on the right, just not way over so the roadie could crowd the white line and keep his descent line.

If she had had a gun, there would be one less roadie out there today!!

Yes, I am also a roadie. But never have I acted so inappropriately in a riding area which is so obviously a mixed use path. I never seem to get this type of behavior from mtn bikers, even those going fast. Also, there is a perfectly acceptable highway going the same direction that this roadie could have taken, if he had wanted speed.

But, some roadies seem to think it is their calling in life to "educate" the rest of us.

Tirade stopped, red face a little less red. Thanks for listening.

Waiting for Velocipedio's response!!

Catya, first of all, welcome to BF. I hope you post often.

I don't want you to misinterpret this post as a personal attack. Let me assure you it is not.

However, there's something that you can call reverse bike snobbery that really gets up my nose. This is the belief that those of us who train with dedication, ride 10,000+ km every year, and ride all-out whenever we get the chance, someohow miss the true meaning of cycling . We're the guys in lycra, on finely-tuned machines who invariably get called "snobs" most of the time.

Yet, I see posts like this:
And that really annoys me.

How do you know you're having more fun? Aren't your being presumtuous? A snob? I like going fast and testing myself, I have a blast competing against by buddies in hill climbs and sprints for beer. I like getting 85 km from home, on a quiet country road, watchint the scenery pass by at 40 km/h.

I'm glad you enjoy poodling around the neighbourhood, and I'm sure you're having fun, but I'd find it as deadly dull as you'd probably find one of my rides.

The Snobbish thing is believing that your idea of fun is the absolut definition of fun.

All I want to know is: Who are YOU to be calling ME a bike snob?