A moped has pedals. The name is a hybrid of motor and pedal. Anything without pedals is a motorcycle, not a moped. Only in Alice in Wonderland can you define words to mean whatever you want them to mean.

We do in Sacramento. Seems like all the Midtown hipsters moved on to 70s era Puch mopeds after they gave up on fixed gears. (Too much work, I suppose.) These mopeds have pedals and loud, smelly, smoky 2-stroke gas engines.

That's them. Haven't seen one for years on this side of the pond, but when I was a kid they were exclusively ridden by middle-aged or elderly men wearing flat caps.

Or if you work in Marketing. Those people regularly define words to mean whatever they want them to mean. Which is why people believe that E-bikes are bicycles, and not not what they actually are, which is mopeds.

I believe Bill Hicks is commonly acknowledged as the foremost expert on this topic.

Yes. We live in a society with marketing based entirely on making life easier. Hence the fat, virtually incapacitated people that make up so much of western society's population.

The reason why these things are developing is to circumvent the registration laws for powered vehicles (ie, motorcycles). The Australian distributors have already been caught out cheating on the output specs for their electric bikes and subsequently, they pressured for a change in the laws so they didn't have to be technically registered.

It's also well and good to have a brand new electric bike. But as experience has shown with rechargeable electric lawn mowers, the batteries are the weak link and they are (a) quite expensive to replace and (b) tend to run down faster the older they get. I really hope the purchasers of these bikes understand that. Plus, I doubt that the owners of these bikes have a single clue about how their machines have to be maintained to continue safe long-term operation.

The other real annoyance here is the add-on gas-powered motors that spew out two-stroke fumes in the faces of legitimate cyclists as they pass by. They are noisy and the people riding have little to no regard for other path and road users. Yesterday, as we were stopped to do a mechanical adjustment, one went past under (disc) brakes but the rider still had his foot on the ground to assist slow-down. I came across similar mopeds back in the early 2000s in Europe and thought what a blight on the bike lanes and paths they were.

I've sometimes thought about moving out in front of them and touching their front wheel so they go down. After all, the niceties of calling that they are passing don't exist in their minds, and they certainly wouldn't be aware of the dangers of front-wheel encounter with the back wheel of another bike. But I am not quite churlish enough actually do something like that.

I am, however, waiting or the day when one of the riders of these power assisted bikes has a major crash, perhaps involving a pedestrian. The headlines are going to be about a cyclist, but in fact they are motorbike riders no matter which way you look at it; the public isn't going to care about that, and yet more legal pressure will be brought to bear on cyclists as a result.

I think it would take a huge set of cajones to show up for club ride on an e bike.
I suppose a long time member who for medical reasons can no longer pedal may be welcomed,
but other than that I can only say...

Some are still sold new in the US: Lazer 5 Moped 49cc real moped with engine and bicycle pedals


I've seen them all over - I saw several last year in the Bay Area, though those tended to be restored Hondas from the 70's for style reasons.

Tomos also makes mopeds (under the classic definition), with dealers all over the US: https://www.tomosusa.com/pages/model/st

Oh, and a search with "moped" as filter in the sf bay craigslist shows dozens of real mopeds rather than motorcycles or scooters (that is: step-through motorcycles with small wheels): https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/...mi&query=moped

All my bikes have dual piston motors (at least when I am riding them) I see no need for anything more powerful. Most Motorsicles have 'em so why not the bike. Granted their dual piston motors tend to be loud and stinky out the exhaust while mine is reasonably quiet and my exhaust smells of roses ; )

Modern electric-assist bicycles ARE mopeds, but they're much more refined than the old Sachs et al mopeds which would likely kill you if you had to pedal them very far. I see them as filling a niche. As long as you're not using them for competition, what's the harm?

This past fall, a younger rider often passed me on a slight uphill. He seemed to be pedalling effortlessly and was sitting upright. I thought to myself "Jeez, I'm getting old and losing strength." I felt depressed for a couple of days until I saw he was riding an e-bike. He was a commuter so I guess it makes sensse for him to get to work on an e-bike. I'd rather share the road with people on electric bikes than SUVs.

I rather enjoy the effort of riding unassisted, and the present wisdom is that it is good for me, but sometimes I think to myself wouldn't it be nice to be able to recapture some of the energy that is dissipated and lost when braking. or in other words a regenerative braking system. I've heard rumors that they exist for bikes.

Motor + Bike = Motorbike

Ride what you want, just don't pretend youre on a a bicycle. Ride where you want, just don't latch on to the hard earned gains of cycling groups like NORBA.

Get your own culture and movements

I have never owned a moped or even a motorcycle and am pretty adamant against e-mountain bikes, except for use on certain wide trails and when medically necessary. Bombing a singletrack with other riders and hikers is not safe, especially if the person has no bike skills.

On a road bike, I would be more open to a little pedal assist as the years have rolled on. Not for pseudo KOM purposes, but to help me maintain on some rides where my legs and the climbing late in the ride are not mutually conducive. I'm not there yet, but I can see where that day might come. I also agree that in some traffic situations, especially around freeway on/off ramps, being able to get a burst of speed to avoid getting run over is a plus.

John

I shave with an old school razor (uses double edge razor blades) and I have a number of razors from 1905 to present day. For a while I participated in a shaving forum but I moved away from it when they started to continually denigrate those who chose to shave with disposables.

Shaving is shaving...biking is biking...just enjoy yourself. No one gets out of here alive.

I was thinking about this thread on Saturday as I was suffering up Coleman Valley Road. The assertion that a motor is no different than a derailleur or ceramic bearings is ludicrous.

You're really into the shaving thing as I can see by your avatar I just finally found the joys and ease of shaving with a safety razor with the double edge blades. So much cheaper as I would have to use 2 disposables to get a good shave, thus just left it go for a once a week shave.

I want to ride as fast as Fabian! (Cancellara)

Who needs gears, with strong will, and pure rage, a single speed is all you need.

Actually a Moped is not a motorized bike without pedals, those are scooters, and motorcycles. A moped is the opposite of a motorized bike, where the MOtor is the primary function, and anybody who's had one, knows the PEDals are best used only to start the thing. There are mopeds that also come without pedals, such as the Tomos Streetmate, which we have coined the phrase for mopeds without them as "Nopeds." They are still mopeds, and either way, a motorized bike is not a moped, a scooter is not either. Motorized bikes, however are kinda the father of all motorbikes.

I thought about putting one of those 80cc kits on a roadbike, running it to drive the driveside of the crank, to still have gears, and putting foot pegs on it. coukdn't figure how to fit a throttle conteol on the drops. yeah, it basically be a new interpetation of an ancient motorcycle, but whatever.

I don't see the big deal, when I know most of you love Di2- which is basically an automated manual for a bike, twin wet clutch, dsg, whateber, you get the point. Just like sportscars(any car, really), I want my bike to be a true manual.

Motorcycle/scooter, a motorized 2 wheel vehicle where the motor is the sole form of propulsion.

Moped, a motorized 2 wheel vehicle where the motor is the primary form of propulsion.

E-bike, a bicycle with an electric motor that allows either the motor, or pedals to provide propulsion.

E assist bike, a bicycle with electric motor to supplement pedaling to provide propulsion.

They're all distinctly different, and its willful ignorance to proclaim they're the same, because they're not.

Anyone who rides a motor assist road bike on club rides is just fooling themselves. Although it would be nice for ultra beginners in no drop rides to have assist

IDK, it might be fun to pull a "A" group paceline while smoking a cigar and drinking a single malt scotch.
It seems some take the whole club ride thing way too seriously.

Surely if a severely handicapped rider showed up for a club ride with E-Assist, no one would complain? So ... why the prejudice against the able-bodied? if some dude (or chick) gets pleasure from an E or E-Assist ... anything that doesn't have an internal combustion motor ... why not?

Only the super Type-A "I need to beat Everybody across the finish line" types .... are so full of themselves they don't even realize there is no finish line on a club ride. And those dudes are their own reward/punishment.

Smoking a cigar would be expensive ... airflow at 25 mph would burn the thing down in no time ... and you'd have to light the next off the stub, because the wind would extinguish a lighter.

Scotch, now, that I'd object to. Balance issues associated with intoxication.

I think the solution is to ride stoker on an E-tandem, and treat it as a chauffeured ride ... just sit back behind your windscreen, puff and sip and smile ....

,,,,, Let me ask you this ,,,, you're an ablebodied man ,, so the weekly ride this week is a century envolving some hills the group is about fifty riders , it's a supported ride with sag wagon and all every body takes off a few hours later everybody finishs everybody is talking about their ride where they had the most trouble and such,,, ofcoures you had arrived with your E assited road bike and finished nice and fresh,,, now did you really do a century ********** where are you going to compare your ride with the rest of the group are you gonna talk about how your calfs feel and hurt on that long streach ??? are you gonna go back to work and brag about the long 100 mile bicyle ride you did over the week end,,,,please answer, I may be missing the BIG picture,,,,,