For me, one of my main reasons to cycle is exercise ... fitness. And along with that comes taking on challenges.

Last year, when I was still out of shape, I could have acquired an e-bike or moped or motorcycle or whatever and sailed up all the hills around here. Problem solved.

But that's not me. I'd rather take on the challenge of getting up those hills by my own power while I still can!

For me, at this point in my life while I am still able to get about on my own, I don't want an ebike. It would defeat the very reasons I ride.


I also really do not see the point of someone doing a club ride on an ebike. Why would you? I'm slow as molasses on a cold winter day ... and so I don't ride with fast clubs. Simple as that. I'm not going to get an ebike just to be able to keep up with faster clubs. That would just be pointless foolishness.

And caloso makes a very good point about bicycle handling skills. Most clubs don't like riders with aerobars because their bicycle handling skills are diminished. If I saw someone come to a club ride with an ebike, I would presume that person had a medical issue that prevented them from riding a real bicycle ... and I would question their bicycle handling skills. I know I would be keeping my distance until they had proved themselves.

The one thing I can't come to terms with is why does the type of bike matter? If a group invites someone to ride with them knowing they have limitations in their skills or athletic ability, why would being on a legal E-bike make any difference?

For me cycling is about the fitness/exercise aspect and the challenge. An ebike removes both of those. You might as well hop in a car and drive the route.

If a group wants to invite ebike riders, then fine, it's on them. I thought we were talking about the situation where someone just showed up with an ebike to an otherwise all-human powered ride, which is an entirely different situation.

And the type of bike can make a big difference. Many rides forbid TT bikes and fixed gears for safety reasons. You can work out why.

Yes, I was thinking of informal club rides open to all comers, and agree it would be inappropriate to crash a formal goal orientated club ride in a manner that was unwelcome or disruptive regardless of what one is riding.

That's goes to the core of what I'm saying, there are many different motivations for cycling, so why question, or judge those that are different?

I suppose the reason I don't take umbrage with folks riding E-bikes is that cycling isn't a sport, or challenge for me, but the more intangible joie de vie as experienced on a bicycle, When I share the experience with others, its the person, not their bike that matters to me..

I just don't understand why some would wish to deny that to others.

For me, and for many others, cycling is a sport and is a challenge.

For example, riding the Paris-Brest-Paris is a huge challenge. Even riding the qualifiers for the various 1200K events each year is a challenge. If people could drive those events, that challenge and appeal of those events would be gone.


Same with another challenge I'd like to take on sometime this year ... climbing to the top of our local mountain. Anyone could motor their way up there and be at the top feeling fresh within about half an hour. But cycling up or walking/running up, as some have done, is a real challenge. It's a tough climb.


I don't have a problem if someone wants to use an ebike or moped or motorcycle or whatever to commute or get around transportationally, etc., but when it comes to the sport/challenge aspect ... that's when I do have issues with using a motor.

Anyone who thinks an inexperienced (or formerly experienced) cyclist on an e-bike in the middle of a group ride is NOT dangerous, probably hasn't been on many group rides.

I agree there is a place for e-bikes in the greater cycling community. I hope e-bikes grow hugely and that people use them to commute, bring home the groceries and ride with their spouse/friends. But please keep them out of my peleton.

But if it's not a formal competitive event such as the PBP, whats the issue with others doing it their way? For many folks, riding a E-bike up your mountain would be as much of a challenge, if not more than it would be for you or I on a regular bike. "challenge" is very subjective.

I find it alarming that there are folks participating in club rides that welcome inexperienced riders, who are incapable of safely accommodating them since a regular bike can easily achieve the same speeds as a E-bike on a modest hill. Heck, I've hit hit 40 mph on my Dutch tank going down hill.
Also, an inexperienced cyclist will almost certainly not be capable of propelling an E-bike beyond it's 20 mph assist cutoff, which is slower than how fast an experienced cyclist can go.

Makes me wonder who would be the actual danger. The one who lacks skill, or the one who lacks self control.

I am in the school of, "Who cares why I ride?"

If someone rides for a reason or reasons, different than my own (and Everybody does) then why should that be an issue?

Safety is a valid issue, but suppose a guy who normally was fast guy in the group showed up on an E-bike---why would you diss him then? I think some would.

Not everyone rides for exercise or challenge. Not everyone always wants to exert him/herself or challenge him/herself. I don't own an Ebike and think ti would be silly in a informally competitive group ride, but my opinion doesn't rule others any more that anyone else's opinion rules me.

I seem to be hearing undertones of "I do it this way, and this way is right"---of which only the first half is actually right, The final third of that sentence is the phrase "for me."

Also for those who missed the memo: An E-bike is not a conventional bicycle. Judging riders as if they were riding conventional bikes is ridiculous/ That would be like a horse rider complaining that the bike riders don't feed and curry their mounts. Most people riding E-bikes pretty obviously aren't trying to make constant fitness breakthroughs ... most of them are probably out for fun. We aren't all so uptight about biking that we can't accept others having fun in totally different ways, are we?

This is like those Car-Free threads where people who like to ride trash people who drive cars, because ... well, because those Car-Free folks don’t want to drive cars.

Maybe some folks sometimes want to tool around on E-bikes. If you feel threatened or diminished by that … that’s not my affair.

Double post.

I don't care what kind of bike people ride. As long as they refer to it by the correct term. I just looked up the club I used to ride with, and found this on their webpage:

"PURPOSE
The purpose of the club is to encourage and support all kinds of bicycle riding and racing."

To me, that means they welcome anyone riding a bicycle. Electric mopeds(AKA e-bikes), scooters and motorcycles, not so much.

There are differences between those things.

I would get one if they were, say, $800. Would be a fun way to go to certain places where I take my scooter or my car today. I wouldn't show up to a group ride on it, but someone showed to my Saturday group ride on one a few months ago and absolutely no drama ensued.

Yes, everyone silently and calmly gathered around the guy, pulled out their mini-pumps, beat him to death. Then they burned his body and his E-bike, and buried the ashes in an unmarked grave far from anywhere anyone would ever ride a real bike. Very calm--no shouting, no arguing, no drama.

Saw it on the Internet ... which guy was you?

The one throwing CO2 canisters.

But the thing is, you're not using the technically or legally correct definition, or the normally understood semantics.

Agreed.

Well, that seems to be the heart of the disagreement. Some people feel that you can add a motor to a bicycle, and you still have a bicycle. Others feel that when you add a motor to a bicycle, you no longer have a bicycle; the non-motorized aspect of bicycling is fundamental to the definition of what a bicycle is.

I'm sure the laws defining what is and what is not a bicycle are the best that lobbyists money can buy. They can define ketchup to be a vegetable too. I'm not buying that either.

But why?

I have very little experience with paceline group rides, and E-bikes, but I have been cycling for 45 years. If I got an E-bike, and decided to do a group ride that welcomed inexperienced riders, why would I be any more "dangerous" than if I was riding a regular bike? It seems to me the E-bike would actually be safer, because I could focus on learning the nessary paceline skills without the distraction of struggling to keep up.

As someone without a dog in this fight, I don't see any rationality in what seems to be unreasonable fear and bias against E-bikes that's no different than than those directed towards recumbents, trikes, and velomobiles. All of which I have seen tagging along with club rides.

Go on a few Cascade Bicycle Club rides in the 15mph range with more than a dozen people, no pacelines required. You will have your question answered.

edit: as a disclaimer (so to speak) - in post #84 I specifically stated "an inexperienced (or formerly experienced) cyclist on an e-bike".

If they're not paceline rides, aren't simply recreational rides with an expected average pace? I encounter them often and see all kinds of bikes in them.

I test rode an electrically assisted fat bike on a field once. I don't know if it was representative of all e-bikes but my observation was that the power from the motor didn't cut off instantaneously when you stopped pedaling. There was a lag which I would expect as it's not easy for a control system to perfectly match the variable torque a person is able to apply to the pedals.

Riding solo this isn't necessarily a bad thing. In a group or paceline however it would be a disaster. Someone gets a little too close to the rider in front and eases off the pedals but the motor keeps going. Rider panics and hits the brakes causing problems for those behind.

I agree e-bikes have no place in a paceline.

This.

Personally. 20 MPH isn't fast. I cruise along unassisted that fast much of the time on my road bike. I've pushed/pulled my out of shape/inexperienced girlfriend along a VERY long course of downhills at 25+ with no incidents, all within a foot of each other the entire time.

I don't see what the problem would be.

Or maybe I do. The elitists don't want the common folk to be included in their groups.

Seriously, humans can RUN 20 MPH. I really don't think it's that dangerous, regardless of what type of vehicle you're on.

I'm sure there is a fraction of a second lag (to prevent jolts when you stop pedaling for a millisecond or if you have a really bad pedal stroke.) But you know what isn't laggy? Brake levers. You know what has the power to stop any e-assisted bike at full power? A set of unlaggy brakes.