Aerodynamics and Cycling
#26
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,859
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From: IL-USA
So then I started reading about Graeme Obree and his riding position and custom made bike built from washing machine bearings and spare parts. It's a really interesting story. Then I got side tracked into recumbents and velobikes. I didn't see any regular bikes with a aerodynamic windshield. ...
Last time I looked--Zzipper and Windwrap both make small fairings that you can mount on the handlebars of an upright bike, if you wanted.
The info from Bicycling Science may be technically correct but it seems rather outdated.
The Vector trikes and Avatar Bluebell bikes date from the mid-1980's; they look pretty slick but both of them are roughly 30 years old. I don't know what their drag numbers are but I'm pretty sure that they would both be totally uncompetitive today.
The Varna Diablo was probably the fastest direct-sight recumbent bike, before the camera bikes took over.
In years past there were Battle Mountain teams that ran faired upright bicycles.
There was also one team that showed up a few times with a fully-faired folding bicycle.
Neither of them went anywhere as fast as the faired recumbents did, but they still went way faster than an unfaired bike of the same type could.
You might ask on the recumbents.com website if anyone has more info on either of these. That site is fairly small but does seem to have a lot of IHPVA/Battle Mountain regular attendees.
#28
MUP World Champ
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 419
Likes: 33
From: Oceanside, CA
Bikes: '19 Trance 3, '17 Defy Adv 2, DK Legend, Electra Verse 21D
I guess now there's also this.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
#29
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,859
Likes: 5
From: IL-USA
I guess now there's also this.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
A lot of people have tried building prone bikes like this, and riding comfort usually ends up being the major stumbling block. In particular--you end up needing a head rest, because your neck muscles get tired extremely fast holding your head up in such a position. You might supposed that you could build your neck muscles up to it, but that is very very difficult to do. This is why many riders get Shermer's Neck on ultra-long riding events like RAAM, despite lots of preventative training for it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...er-s-neck.html
If you want good long-distance riding comfort, you're much better getting a regular recumbent than that thing. Or *any* prone bike, it seems.
#30
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 40,863
Likes: 3,115
From: Sacramento, California, USA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
One of the local news reporters did a segment on that bike. He was able to ride it although rather slowly and awkwardly. The inventor claimed the problems were due to a bad fit. The inventor appeared to have much better control and claimed speeds of up to 35mph were possible. No mention was made of grade to hit the 35mph.
#32
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,547
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From: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed
I guess now there's also this.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
I have flipped over the handlebars exactly zero times so I don't know if this would be better than a recumbent for aerodynamic touring.
#33
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,958
Likes: 1,379
From: SW Fl.
Bikes: 1999 DAHON Mariner, Day6 Semi Recumbent "FIREBALL", 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser
#34
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 17,196
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From: Ann Arbor, MI
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
I would think whatever the Bird of Prey can do a NoCom can do better.
#35
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,859
Likes: 5
From: IL-USA
What is unique about these two bikes that makes them drastically faster than every other (very) similar bike on the market?
This whole subject of bicycle aerodynamics really depends mainly on if the bike has to meet any sanctioning rules, or if [none], then how normal you want the bike to look. A $100 Wal-Mart bike with a $100 home-made fairing and body sock could easily be 10% - 15% faster than any of these high-end "pro" models from the big companies.
You have to go to recumbent-bike-land to learn these things tho because for the most part, mainstream bicycle racing has been sticking their heads in the sand for a number of decades now.
And speaking of Graeme Obree--his Battle Mountain bike was also prone... -And used linear/treadle pedaling.
Which is two ideas tried many times in IHPVA events in years past, that haven't ever been found to work well.
(Also his was a fixie besides...? for a 4.2 mile TT,,, IIRC)
A couple of the Battle Mountain old-timers emailed him and gently tried to tell him that is bike design was very much not ideal, and they were willing discuss the matter with him privately or he could just look around in the archives at recumbents.com that showed pictures of the last few years' better entries. He declined all that and continued on his own way, which wasn't too surprising in itself--but I suspect that he thought he was doing something new, and he wasn't. He was doing something old and pretty much discarded, by many other people who do this as a regular thing.
A lot of people hoped he'd return with a better bike, borrowed, built or bought--to show what he could really do. After his one rather lukewarm attempt he seems to have lost interest, it appears.
This whole subject of bicycle aerodynamics really depends mainly on if the bike has to meet any sanctioning rules, or if [none], then how normal you want the bike to look. A $100 Wal-Mart bike with a $100 home-made fairing and body sock could easily be 10% - 15% faster than any of these high-end "pro" models from the big companies.
You have to go to recumbent-bike-land to learn these things tho because for the most part, mainstream bicycle racing has been sticking their heads in the sand for a number of decades now.
~~~~~~~
And speaking of Graeme Obree--his Battle Mountain bike was also prone... -And used linear/treadle pedaling.
Which is two ideas tried many times in IHPVA events in years past, that haven't ever been found to work well.
(Also his was a fixie besides...? for a 4.2 mile TT,,, IIRC)
A couple of the Battle Mountain old-timers emailed him and gently tried to tell him that is bike design was very much not ideal, and they were willing discuss the matter with him privately or he could just look around in the archives at recumbents.com that showed pictures of the last few years' better entries. He declined all that and continued on his own way, which wasn't too surprising in itself--but I suspect that he thought he was doing something new, and he wasn't. He was doing something old and pretty much discarded, by many other people who do this as a regular thing.
A lot of people hoped he'd return with a better bike, borrowed, built or bought--to show what he could really do. After his one rather lukewarm attempt he seems to have lost interest, it appears.
#36
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 40,863
Likes: 3,115
From: Sacramento, California, USA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
There's nothing unique about the Tarmac. It's a great race bike, best handling bike I have ever ridden, but it isn't even Specialized's aero bike. It was an admittedly snarky comment on how 35mph isn't remarkable. Even for a 49-year old Cat 3. 35mph isn't going to win you many 45+123 crits, at least not around here.
#37
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,547
Likes: 797
From: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed
LOL I'd like to think so, anyway.
Edit: added pic when I finally found it. Upright on tops, hoods, drops, aerobars, followed by highracer (in a relatively conservative position,) followed by a NoCom. They're all sized correctly based on the front axle height, although the NoCom pic was taken from too close and the perspective makes his feet look too big and his head look too small.

Edit: added pic when I finally found it. Upright on tops, hoods, drops, aerobars, followed by highracer (in a relatively conservative position,) followed by a NoCom. They're all sized correctly based on the front axle height, although the NoCom pic was taken from too close and the perspective makes his feet look too big and his head look too small.
Last edited by BlazingPedals; 11-07-16 at 09:54 AM.
#39
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 429
Likes: 2
From: Woodbury, MN
Bikes: 2006 Trek Pilot 1.2, 1972 Schwinn SS
I think when you take into consideration practicality and comfort recumbents win for aerodynamics. Otherwise you need to get into fairings and velomobiles which gets expensive and sometimes silly. But then you still need the upright for hilly terrain or rough terrain
.
The moral is that there's not a single ideal engineering solution for human powered wheeled locomotion.
. The moral is that there's not a single ideal engineering solution for human powered wheeled locomotion.
#40
I think when you take into consideration practicality and comfort recumbents win for aerodynamics. Otherwise you need to get into fairings and velomobiles which gets expensive and sometimes silly. But then you still need the upright for hilly terrain or rough terrain
.
The moral is that there's not a single ideal engineering solution for human powered wheeled locomotion.
. The moral is that there's not a single ideal engineering solution for human powered wheeled locomotion.
They are more adaptable than most people give them credit for.
I use recumbents for gravel roads, fire roads, and double track. Anything more technical than that requires something more capable than what I have. Examples:
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...ack-on-gravel/
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...wn-laurel-run/
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...greens-valley/
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...r-o-overlooks/
And I use them on mountainous brevets and permanents (upwards of 80 to 100 feet of climbing per mile). Some are mixed surface. Examples:
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...nishment-200k/
https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com...e-gates-goofy/
https://www.bentrideronline.com/messa...ad.php?t=74264
Last edited by Steamer; 11-04-16 at 10:27 AM.
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StevePupel
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