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Dog attack and confrontation with owner

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Dog attack and confrontation with owner

Old 05-03-17, 09:24 PM
  #76  
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My friend told the story of an ex soldier who rode. Got chased by the same dog. Several nips at the heel, and other acts that were highly dangerous. Had yelling confrontations with the owner, who refused to do anything. Told the owner "The next time that dog chases me I'm going to kill it. Got a two letter response ending in "u". Sure enough, the next ride the dog chased him, the rider pulls his Beretta 9mm out of his bike bag and puts a round into the pooch's forehead.

The friend that told me the story averred that when the cop showed up, the owner was fulminating, but the biker just told the cop "If the owner apologizes, I won't press charges". The cop was sympathetic and agreed.

But this was Texas, more than 20 years ago. Back to reality as we know it today. I'd get and use the pepper spray. Negative operant conditioning.
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Old 05-03-17, 09:25 PM
  #77  
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I'm thankful I live where issues with animals are dealt with swiftly and forcefully. It's been so long since I've had an issue with a dog I can't recall what decade it was.

Our dogs are full fledged family members, I can't imagine exposing them to the risks of letting them run uncontrolled. On the other hand, I'm no idealist, I'd have no problem putting down a dangerous dog, but sometimes I wish it could be the owners that would be put down, and the dogs given a good home.
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Old 05-03-17, 09:37 PM
  #78  
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Some people here are talking about bear spray, Mace and pepper spray. I'm sure they are using the terms interchangeably but it is important to know the different types of sprays.

There are three basic types of sprays known commonly as CN, CS and OC.

CN and CS are irritants. They irritate membrane tissues and cause a combination of stinging, tearing and nausea depending on the type of spray. These may take up to 30 seconds to become effective and they do not work if the attacker cannot feel pain such as someone who is psychotic, drunk or on drugs. CN and CS sprays are the ones you see on youtube where the attacker keeps coming. They also will not work on big, stupid dogs which are oblivious to pain.

OC is an inflammatory agent. This is different from an irritant. It dialates capilaries in the eyes causing temporary blindness and irritates membranes/larynx so as to cause difficulty breathing and extreme burning pain. OC spray is immediately effective. An attacker or dog's eyes slam shut and if hit in the nose or mouth, they start gasping for air. I can vouch from experience that this will blind a dog. OC sprays are the most humane way to deal with a dog as it wears off completely with no lasting side effects and is environmentally safe.

You want OC spray, not CN or CS. You also want a stream, not a fogger. The newest gels won't atomize and so minimize blowback and overspray. Gels are great for a bike.

Bear spray is usually strong enough to be illegal to spray at pets and people in most places. Mace is a brand.

-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 05-03-17 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 05-03-17, 09:39 PM
  #79  
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A bit off topic but all this talk of vicious dogs and the couple mentions I seen of bad breeds reminds me of something that happened with my german shepherd female once. Casey was super smart and friendly and loved people. We owned 9 acres and a trucking company moved in next door. There were always 4-7 guys in the shop at all times of day. Casey was always looking over there, wagging her tail, wanting to meet the people. One day I tripped and her leash was dropped she saw the mechanic go in the shop and tail a wagging she sprinted for the big open shop. Never seen 6 burly guys run from a building so fast in my life. She went in the back, they came out the front all terrified. Then they started laughing as I called her back. She was the friendliest dog and was wagging her tail at all of them.
Casey.jpg
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Old 05-03-17, 09:46 PM
  #80  
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Good luck. I hate loose dogs.
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Old 05-03-17, 10:31 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Some people here are talking about bear spray, Mace and pepper spray.....Bear spray is usually strong enough to be illegal to spray at pets and people in most places.
The bear spray I am familiar with carrying (CounterAssault) is 2% OC, which is the same concentration as most of the ones marketed for use on human miscreants. The difference is the sheer quantity of OC in the can (8.1 oz IIRC) and the degree of pressurization which is sufficient to propel the stuff 30 feet.
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Old 05-03-17, 11:21 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I've been chased by dogs in suburbia. They can be tenacious in a chase. It's scary. The owners were probably not stupid rednecks. Maybe the dogs got out accidentally. I'm sure the owners would be surprised if they heard what their dogs did.
Yeah, the suburban scene is very different. It takes a different mindset to want to live in the suburbs. And the proximity to more active enforcement of laws and ordinances encourages better behavior.

A few folks in my older working class neighborhood occasionally let their dogs roam loose, including a couple of pit bulls. The dogs are just annoying, not an overt threat. But the same potential dangers I described earlier still exist -- if I'd fallen instead of running across the haunches of the dog trying to lead a parade, things might have turned ugly very quickly.

The most overtly aggressive dog I've encountered occurred on voting day back in November. I was walking back home from the polling place that night, in the rain, video recording myself ranting about the lousy choices voters were offered across the board, from national to local elections. Coincidentally a neighbor's large dog (looked like a yellow lab retriever mix, hard to tell in the dim light) -- apparently out in the yard for a pee and poop -- charged at me, barking furiously, snapping at me, and body slamming me repeatedly. I just stood absolutely still while the woman ineffectually tried to calm the dog and pull it away from me. I kept recording in case it escalated. Eventually she wrestled the dog away.

She was apologetic but obviously had absolutely no notion of responsible dog ownership. She wasn't a dog owner. She was a dog feeder. A dog lived in her home and she fed it and let it crap in her yard. That's about it.

That describes 99% of my elderly neighbors with dogs in this apartment complex. Many of them have the obligatory tiny dog -- chihuahuas, terriers, etc. -- and their relationship with the dog consists of stuffing said dogs like chorizo and andouille until they burst out of their sausage casings and expire of heart disease at age 5-8; taking said four-legged sausages out to crap on the sidewalk a couple of times a day; and allowing said future cholesterol and stroke victims yap and snap at everyone else within reach. I can't even wash my bicycle in the yard without these free-range mini-sausage links trying to piss on my bike. In 10 years I've seen maybe two dogs that were actually trained and restrained responsibly.

But it's not the same as the overtly mean, ignorant rednecks we dealt with for many years in our former rural home. Rural areas tend to attract people seeking to escape the confines of city ordinances and building codes, who don't want any busybodies telling them they can't build a guest house out of 55 gallon drums reclaimed from hazardous waste disposal sites. Even if they aren't cooking meth or living on a diet of Cheetos, Mountain Dew and oxycontin, they don't like any busybodies telling them they can't target shoot toward your house using a cardboard box filled with empty beer cans or an old TV as a backstop for their .44 magnum. Dogs tend to mirror their behaviors on their owners/feeders, so it's not surprising to find Cujo slobbering around the neighborhood with bits of unidentifiable gore and bone dangling from it's maw.

A year ago, I was walking my dog on a rural road, and a male german shepherd ran off his property and jumped on my dog, knocking her over. My dog is an old greyhound and very delicate. She gets scrapes whenever she falls. I took her to the vet and had her patched up. I stopped by to talk to the property owner. He apologized and said it would never happen again. The dog was owned by someone in jail, and the property owner was looking after him. He said he would confine the dog. And he asked me what the vet bill came to and wrote me a check.

We ended up talking about other stuff, and he was nothing but pleasant. I have no hard feelings. He made a mistake and owned up to it. My dog was OK.
That's a refreshingly positive outcome. Gives one a bit of hope.
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Old 05-03-17, 11:43 PM
  #83  
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Thread full of win.

Glad I don't live in the sticks.
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Old 05-04-17, 06:33 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Mace is a brand. -Tim-
A little awkward to carry and you definitely want to get off the bike before you use it ... but this brand of mace is Highly effective in many different situations.
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Old 05-04-17, 06:37 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
She wasn't a dog owner. She was a dog feeder. A dog lived in her home and she fed it and let it crap in her yard. That's about it.
perfect expression of a far too common problem. Well said.

Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Rural areas tend to attract people seeking to escape the confines of city ordinances and building codes, who don't want any busybodies telling them they can't build a guest house out of 55 gallon drums reclaimed from hazardous waste disposal sites. Even if they aren't cooking meth or living on a diet of Cheetos, Mountain Dew and oxycontin, they don't like any busybodies telling them they can't target shoot toward your house using a cardboard box filled with empty beer cans or an old TV as a backstop for their .44 magnum. Dogs tend to mirror their behaviors on their owners/feeders, so it's not surprising to find Cujo slobbering around the neighborhood with bits of unidentifiable gore and bone dangling from it's maw.
This, too.

Some people don't seem to get that Freedom is a huge responsibility.
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Old 05-04-17, 07:09 AM
  #86  
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Dog attack and confrontation with owner
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Fill a spray bottle with ammonia, Windex or lemon juice. You can add cayenne pepper for moreeffect, and/of add food color to leave a mark. make sure to set the sprayer to"mist". Carry it in your downtube bottle cage.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
This is not a cut-and-tried situation like some here seem to think.

First, there are places where dogs can kill people. It’s called, “Everywhere.”

Second, in rural areas, there are a couple dynamics urban/suburban people don’t seem to understand.

One is the “pack.” In some areas, where dogs are pretty much allowed to roam,the can actually form packs, just like they used to , to hunt…

Some of the fast young riders just sprint away. Not always an option. Sometimes you are tired, or surprised, or on a steep hill….

It won’t happen. Stuff like that happens less than people win the lottery.

But ... people win the lottery.

If you have never been in that situation, don’t criticize others who have been.. at least not until you think really hard about it.

Sometimes there is no one to call for help, no one there to rescue you, no one to save your butt. It is you, and what you do .. and maybe your whole life is radically changed by your response.

I have learned the hard way that sometimes life throws really crappy situations at you. And Rarely do we handle them the way we imagine we would have.

Have a great time cycling.
Here in Metro Boston, including exurbia, I cannot recall being chased by a dog in decades. I think the spray bottle solution is probably the most reasonable alternative to “peaceful” vs “violent” solutions, but seems burdensome if a dog chase is a rare event.


When riding in Michigan, and on various tours including cross country, my successful, spontaneous strategy was to pace myself at submaximal speed as the (single) dog approached, and when close I would scream out loud to startle the dog. Usually it would react by slowing down, and I would speed up to maximal pace. The dog always gave up the chase as the gap widened since it was presumably chasing at its maximal speed. YMMV.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-04-17 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 05-04-17, 07:27 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post
Thread full of win.

Glad I don't live in the sticks.
Ain't that the truth. After reading all this stuff it makes biking in my crappy city seem so much nicer.
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Old 05-04-17, 08:05 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Personally I like pitties and don't fear them any more than any other dog. The vast majority I've encountered were lovable goofballs. I've encountered a few on my rural bike rides and don't worry about them since they're just excessively enthusiastic, not aggressive. They tend to wander around in front of me like they're leading a parade. A couple of times I've run over their haunches when they suddenly stopped or changed directions, even when I'd slowed down to a walking pace. I didn't fall and they weren't injured. Those particular dogs didn't repeat that stunt.

What I do worry about is how even apparently friendly dogs can suddenly turn when they sense fear, excitement or pain. They can unexpectedly become vicious. This sudden personality change can happen with any breed. I've seen it in my own dogs and those owned by other family members. Several years ago we had a pair of part-bassett siblings. They were fine for several months, seemingly harmless and friendly. But before the puppies were a year old the female began attacking the male, and each attack got worse -- she nearly killed him once, shredding the hide over his abdomen and throat as he rolled over submissively. We had to split them up and gave the female away. And my in-laws had a couple of goofy bird dogs that seemed to be inseparable pals in harmless mischief. But one day one of the them injured its paw and the sibling attacked and nearly killed it. But the most dangerous and foul tempered dog we tried to adopt was a young adult chow that was wildly unpredictable and couldn't be trusted around my grandmother or grandkids. None of the usual methods for winning over difficult dogs seemed to work. We finally had to give her away to an experienced owner who understood what she was taking on.
I agree with these sentiments. Every pit bull I've personally known has been a lovable goofball. The problem is that they are built so dense with muscle that IF they do attack, it's going to hurt. I think they have some of the strongest bites in the animal kingdom as well. Not only that, but they're also stubborn as hell. You don't play tug of war with a pit-bull. The pit bull lets you pull on his toy until you get tired, and he comes back for more.

The second thing you mentioned can happen to ANY dog. Dogs have bad days just like us. We just have the common sense not to bite someone. Even our two dogs who were littermates and lived together their whole life and played together every day would fight every once in awhile. I'm talking like once a year or so. I think the issue is that people get SCARED when they see a dog having a bad day, and that's not what you want to do. Owning large dogs has made my fear of dogs go away. I have held both of these dogs back from attacking other animals at the same time. (They're bird dogs, they like to chase small animals like cats... and other rat dogs...). I have no fear that if I stayed calm when being attacked by a dog I could come out with perhaps a torn up forearm, but hopefully that's it. Protect your neck, protect your abdomen, protect your jewels. If it's anything less than a very large dog, you can sit on it or kneel on it and it's probably not getting up. Yes, animals are strong, but in the end they still often weigh less than 100 lbs. And most fully grown adults (some small adults may not apply) (even us bikers) should be able to hold one even under the worst of conditions.

Now, if I were a 100 lb person, it'd be a different story.

Last edited by corrado33; 05-04-17 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 05-04-17, 08:26 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by kaos joe View Post
The bear spray I am familiar with carrying (CounterAssault) is 2% OC, which is the same concentration as most of the ones marketed for use on human miscreants. The difference is the sheer quantity of OC in the can (8.1 oz IIRC) and the degree of pressurization which is sufficient to propel the stuff 30 feet.
Do anyone know anybody make a bike holster for bear spray?

Like something attached to handlebar or the top tube...
so you can deploy easily with one hand.

Alternatively, I think a hard wooden stick is a good idea for self-defense.
If there's a easy way to attach one to the frame that can be deployed quickly.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 05-04-17 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 05-04-17, 08:28 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by f4rrest View Post

Glad I don't live in the sticks.
Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
Ain't that the truth. After reading all this stuff it makes biking in my crappy city seem so much nicer.
It all depends where those sticks are, in my area one must go to the city to have problems with roaming "animals".
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Old 05-04-17, 08:38 AM
  #91  
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Classic week for threads in this forum. Was there a full moon recently?
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Old 05-04-17, 08:42 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
kicking shows the dog you're under stress (a sign you're prey).
I don't think this one saw me as prey after I loosened his teeth a bit

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Old 05-04-17, 08:50 AM
  #93  
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Fill you pocket with gravel next time. That will probably cure them from chasing you or anyone else once they get it that running after someone going down the road will mean gravel raining down. Mace would fix them even better but might create more of an issue. Try pea gravel. Most country dogs know what it means when you just raise your arm like you're going to throw a rock.
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Old 05-04-17, 08:52 AM
  #94  
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[QUOTE=canklecat;19558668 Even if they aren't cooking meth or living on a diet of Cheetos, Mountain Dew and oxycontin, [/QUOTE]

Hey, that's my pre-ride meal. Back off!
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Old 05-04-17, 09:00 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Do anyone know anybody make a bike holster for bear spray?

Like something attached to handlebar or the top tube...
so you can deploy easily with one hand.

Alternatively, I think a hard wooden stick is a good idea for self-defense.
If there's a easy way to attach one to the frame that can be deployed quickly.
They do, in fact, make a water bottle/bear spray holder.

BearCozy bear spray carrier for bikes
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Old 05-04-17, 09:10 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
They do, in fact, make a water bottle/bear spray holder.

BearCozy bear spray carrier for bikes
Luv it! So inconspicuous.

Looks like I can make one DIY for no cost...since I got a bunch of unused bike water bottle. Maybe stuff some foam between bottle and spray can.

Just need to find out if it's legal to carry and use bear spray in town.
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Old 05-04-17, 09:19 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by kaos joe View Post
The bear spray I am familiar with carrying (CounterAssault) is 2% OC, which is the same concentration as most of the ones marketed for use on human miscreants. The difference is the sheer quantity of OC in the can (8.1 oz IIRC) and the degree of pressurization which is sufficient to propel the stuff 30 feet.
Right. I need to correct my post. Bear spray is mostly legal. You are right.

Some states don't allow carrying more than 2 oz OC spray and I got confused. But you are 100% correct.
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Old 05-04-17, 09:29 AM
  #98  
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I got my first dog in 2003 and took a training course. It was a good course, because the teacher didn't teach our dogs, he taught us humans how to teach our dogs. When I got my second dog, I took the course again as a refresher.

Bad dog owners are everywhere. I learned from the course how to convey "no" and "good dog." It's in the tone and force of the voice, not in the choice of words. I spend most of my time in the city. Sometimes a dog will bark or lunge at my dog and the owner will say "No Fido" in a soothing voice and might even hold the dog in a pleasing way. I haven't told these people that they are rewarding their dogs. Yet. One day, I might need to.

It's been a few years since a dog chased me while I was on my bike. I'm not going to carry any equipment to handle the situation. I can only prepare so much. I wear cleated shoes, and I have a helmet, gloves, eyeglass mirror, cell phone, water bottle, and tool kit. It's already too much. That's one reason I don't use an action camera when I ride.
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Old 05-04-17, 09:33 AM
  #99  
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I'm still going to say file a report...if not for you, for someone else. I'm sure you wont though.

I was attacked by a neighbors dog. Had I been alone, it probably would have killed me. There was nothing I could do to make it stop, myself. I had that dog put down. The damage it caused took nearly, or right about, half a year to heal and it's still numb in those areas 10 years later.

Once a dog latches on, its hard to get them off. Kicking and hitting may not phase some of them. Telling them to "go home" and such won't work on some dogs either.
I can understand why some think along the lines of "don't hurt/kill the dogs". I used to also. But when it comes down to your life or the dogs?
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Old 05-04-17, 09:57 AM
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jefnvk
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Bear spray is usually strong enough to be illegal to spray at pets and people in most places. Mace is a brand.

-Tim-
It is also worth noting that pepper spray is not even legal to carry everywhere.

Originally Posted by cppeace View Post
Never seen 6 burly guys run from a building so fast in my life. She went in the back, they came out the front all terrified. Then they started laughing as I called her back. She was the friendliest dog and was wagging her tail at all of them.
Cool that you know your dog is just playing, but if I am watching a German Shepard charge me at full speed, I am not assuming it is playing around. I don't know you, your dog, its temperament or motives. Keep it under control in public. She's lucky she didn't get a 1-1/2" wrench upside the head.
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