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New bike shift tech

Old 08-10-17 | 02:50 PM
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New bike shift tech

How about up down front AND rear shifting from one twist grip? Cool idea.
Bike gadget represents a shift in shifting
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Old 08-10-17 | 02:53 PM
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Interesting idea, keeping it all mechanical...OTOH only works for legacy equipment, or your El Cheapo bikes sold today.
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Old 08-10-17 | 03:04 PM
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In what pattern does it shift? How does it know what my combination of front chainrings and rear cogs is, to know which is the next gear inch step to go to?
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Old 08-10-17 | 03:05 PM
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I remember reading about a similar system -also from a French company- in the late 90's/early 00's.

I never saw a need, figuring out front shifting ain't that hard.
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Old 08-11-17 | 06:22 AM
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Shimano made a system like that years ago. I forget what they called it, but it was a single twist shifter that would shift both front and rear derailleur.
A friend of mine ran a bike touring operation with a fleet of them. It spared him the pain of spending a lot of time explaining shifting to people unfamiliar with bicycle transmissions.
It would have been a good application for IGH, but internal hubs with more than 3 speeds were not yet very popular.
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Old 08-11-17 | 08:19 AM
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Situations like approaching a hill or set of hills ... I will shift to the top of the small ring so I don't have to shift the front under load, and can work with the cassette alone ... A lot of times I drop two gears to shoot up a small incline and then go back up two gears after cresting the climb ... I don't want the bike trying to shift both derailleurs. I want that almost instant shift into exactly the gear I know I need.

Another product seeking a reason to exist. Probably invented by someone who doesn't ride.

Eight-speed IGH or CVT would make more sense for fleet bikes for people who have no clue.

In any case, this is either flies or fails. I cannot see any application outside of bike-rental shops, and then, only for people who would A.) need a full range of gearing (i.e. people who would be doing a lot of climbing and quick descending) and B.) would be novices---in other words, the people who wouldn't likely sign up for a bike tour that included a lot of hard riding, climbing and quickly descending ....
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Old 08-11-17 | 08:24 AM
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single shifter for what a 3x8 drivetrain can do exists already on many bikes. It is called 1x11.
for $82 you could just upgrade your drivetrain next time it is time to replace cassette and chain etc.
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Old 08-11-17 | 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
single shifter for what a 3x8 drivetrain can do exists already on many bikes. It is called 1x11.
for $82 you could just upgrade your drivetrain next time it is time to replace cassette and chain etc.
$82USD? Uh. Hoss. Nope.

You need a new rear wheel. You need a new derailleur and shifter and cable. Then there's the question of if the brake pull is the same....


The cost of that "upgrade" to get wider gear spacing, and never have the right gear....exceeds the value of 3x8 bike....all because the end user doesn't understand how to shift. LOL.
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Old 08-11-17 | 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ctpres
It can be a tricky business, selecting the proper gear combinations on a dual-derailleur bike.
Yeah, real tricky. Only if you're a day one newb. A solution in search of a problem.
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Old 08-11-17 | 09:10 AM
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But an IGH, will roll thru the gear ratios in sequence from low to high..

a derailleur pulling the cable goes from outside to inside , high to low, on the back low to high in the front, inside to outside..

but the gear ratio sequence is not linear but a combination of 2 sprockets, in a hodge podge pattern .depending on the tooth count ratios,
which differs depending on chainring and cassette ranges..

the there are those who want gears changed while stopped..





....
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Old 08-11-17 | 09:35 AM
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Might be useful for one-armed cyclists, but I don't see a compelling advantage for anyone else.
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Old 08-11-17 | 09:38 AM
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You'd figure someone smart enough to engineer this product would be smart enough to figure out how to work a pair of derailleurs .....
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Old 08-11-17 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
Might be useful for one-armed cyclists, but I don't see a compelling advantage for anyone else.
Given the 1x setups that are available I dunno how useful it would actually be.
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Old 08-11-17 | 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by manapua_man
Given the 1x setups that are available I dunno how useful it would actually be.
Think about what bikes have 6/7/8-speed drivetrains. El. Cheapo.

Does 1x11 come as standard equipment on WallyWorld or dept store bikes?
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Old 08-11-17 | 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
$82USD? Uh. Hoss. Nope.

You need a new rear wheel. You need a new derailleur and shifter and cable. Then there's the question of if the brake pull is the same....


The cost of that "upgrade" to get wider gear spacing, and never have the right gear....exceeds the value of 3x8 bike....all because the end user doesn't understand how to shift. LOL.
On a mountain bike you wouldn't need a new wheel. Just a shifter and derailleur. It will still cost you more than $82, though. Probably close to $200.

On a road bike you may be able to get away with not buying a new wheel. You'd have to use a mountain bike cassette, though. But I think SRAM 11spd road is compatible their mountain bike cassettes.
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Old 08-11-17 | 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FrozenK
On a mountain bike you wouldn't need a new wheel. Just a shifter and derailleur. It will still cost you more than $82, though. Probably close to $200.

On a road bike you may be able to get away with not buying a new wheel. You'd have to use a mountain bike cassette, though. But I think SRAM 11spd road is compatible their mountain bike cassettes.
What 6/7/8 speed rear wheel works with an 11 speed cassette?
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Old 08-11-17 | 01:49 PM
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Regardless of what 1x11 conversion might cost ... the twin-shifter is not worth the money.
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Old 08-11-17 | 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
$82USD? Uh. Hoss. Nope.

You need a new rear wheel. You need a new derailleur and shifter and cable. Then there's the question of if the brake pull is the same....


The cost of that "upgrade" to get wider gear spacing, and never have the right gear....exceeds the value of 3x8 bike....all because the end user doesn't understand how to shift. LOL.
Good point, didn't consider that. Jut wanted to make a point that for a bike that has 3x8 or even 3x6 neither upgrade option is economical. Especially since this seems to be a friction shifter (hence the 6-8 speed option)
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Old 08-11-17 | 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti
What 6/7/8 speed rear wheel works with an 11 speed cassette?
Any wheel that fits an 8spd mountain bike cassette will fit an 11spd Shimano (and Suntour) mountain bike cassette. Actually, I'm pretty sure that 8spd road hubs will fit a Shimano MTB cassette. The important part here is mountain bike cassette.
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Old 08-11-17 | 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chemtrailsnifer
None, unless for some some bizarre reason they are running 6/7/8 speed with spacers on an 11 speed freehub.
Any Shimano 8spd mountain bike hub will fit a Shimano 11spd mountain bike cassette. There is life outside the pavement.
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Old 08-11-17 | 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by chemtrailsnifer
Sharing incorrect information is not helpful.

Let me help you out here:

""Road" vs "Mountain" Hubs
  • There is no interchangeability issue between "Road" vs "Mountain" cassettes and hubs as long as the number of sprockets matches. Although "Road" and "Mountain" hubs are no different as far as cassette fitting is concerned, they are different in terms of overall spacing. "Road" hubs generally use 130 mm spacing, while "mountain" hubs are 135 mm. "Mountain" hubs will likely be slightly better sealed against dirt and mud than "road" hubs, but this is rarely an issue in practice. The wider 135 mm spacing will generally result in a slightly stronger wheel due to reduced dishing of the spokes.

Available Shimano-compatible Cassettes:

Shimano 11-speed bodies work only with 11-speed cassettes.
Shimano 8- 9- and 10-speed cassettes/hubs are fully interchangeable for wheels with steel Freehub bodies.
The only parts that are different in any important way between the 8- 9- and 10-speed systems are the shift control levers. (Exception: the "Shadow" series of derailers uses a different cable pull, used with "Shadow" XTR 10-speed shifters.)



More education can be found here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html




No way! So I wasn't just imagining all of the mountain biking that I've been doing for the past 30 years? That's good to know. Thanks!
That information is for Shimano 11spd ROAD cassettes (like the Ultra CS-6800). Shimano 11spd MOUNTAIN BIKE cassettes (like the XT CS-M8000 11spd) will fit on a 8/9spd freehub. I can assure you that's true as I have one installed on mine. The information on Sheldon's page is outdated and doesn't cover 11spd Shimano MOUNTAIN BIKE cassetes.

And yes, you can use a Shimano 11spd MOUNTAIN BIKE cassette with a SRAM 11spd mountain bike derailleur/Shifter.

Also I just remembered that SRAM now has the NX 11spd cassettes that will also fit on a conventional 8/9 spd freehub.

I would suggest you take the time to educate yourself before trying to belittle others.
Edited to add this link to an article explaining the difference between 11spd Road and 11spd Mountain bike cassettes.
https://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-xtr-m9000-11-speed-road-compatible-questions

Last edited by FrozenK; 08-11-17 at 03:59 PM.
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