Are shops selling the bikes that average people want?
08-14-18, 12:03 PM
#126
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08-14-18, 01:13 PM
#127
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I am 21 years old,I have been riding bicycle for child.I had a lot of bicycles.Kid bike-City bike then bianchi mountain bike (I started shimano gear with,previous I had non name gear systems and I couldnt change gear)(when I bought ı didnt have knowledge about bicycles and bicycles types) I used bianchi mountain bike for 8 years.İt stayed at home depot for a while.One day I want to ride bicycle again,I want to start cycling with my bicycle.I researched about bicycle,I took recommend from bicycle forum member.I chose my bike,I bought it with some discount.I have been using it for 10 mounth and I went 2200 kilometers with it.I discovered around world,I travelled a lot of place,I met a lot of bicycle users.Bicycle is my lifestyle.I ride bicycle to my school,center of provience,for tour.Yes you right people is dont have enough information about bicycle and they go to store they believe store seller and They buy something,they look appearance.I see a lot of mountain bicycle user in city,it is some strange because They are riding on the smooth road.
08-14-18, 02:17 PM
#128
Old and in the way.
The difference in $700 v $1200 is generally along the lines of a bit nicer fork, maybe a bit nicer wheel set and Claris/Sora v Tiagara/105, and a total or a pound or two. Nicer, yes, totally unrideable difference, nah.
Now, what I would believe is that you were comparing two different geometries or two different sizes, and the price really had nothing to do with it. Or, maybe, a $700 MSRP v. last years $2200 bike marked down to $1200. I'd still have a hard time believing that was an unrideable difference on pricepoint alone, more likely geometry or size.
Well for all I know its still there. Give them a call and go ride it.
Bikes are like motorcycles in that one mans trash is another man's treasure. It wasn't unrideable period, it was unrideable for me. Sorry I didn't clarify that well enough the first time, I sort of assumed that because it was my hard earned money my opinion mattered more than yours.. Its been ten years so the details are rather fuzzy, but iirc I felt like I couldn't get it in the right gear and it felt sluggish in tight turns (kind of important for urban cycling) . Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about.: you can't believe that I would find a 1200 worth buying over a 700 one. Well I did. and if the salesperson had been like you I wouldn't have bought anything. Instead she was thoughtful and listened and suggested a different bike. I felt good on it right away and used it heavily for several years, although I did end up buying a better seat for it eventually and had some Mavic wheels built for my fat self.
BTW my current bike was $450 and I like it just as much. OC its basically the same bike (a high end 2005 CAAD R1000 vs a 2007 or 8 CAAD8) and I like riding it just as much. YMMV
08-14-18, 02:29 PM
#129
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See ... this ws where the desire tio communicate and cooperate gets lost in a desire to debate for no point.
You didn't look at equivalent bikes , one kitted out to cost $700 and one equipped to cost $1200. You went to an entirely different bike----different specs, sure, and different geometry and balance and fit ... and one fit you better.
That's like saying, "My lawnmower broke, so I went to get a new one ... I looked at a $500 lawnmower and a $200 microwave oven, and decided the lawnmower was better. See that's the difference between spending $200 and $500."
So when jefnvk says what he says ... In a way he is exactly right---the bike was not unridable because of price, as you intimated, but because it was simply the wrong bike. Possibly you could have ridden a $700 version ... or YOUR EXISTIGN $450 VERSION---and liked it just as much.
Pretty obviously the fact that you have the same bike again, and only paid $450, pretty much undercuts any notions that the price was in any way the determining factor ... it was just that you wanted and fit best on that Cannondale, and not the other bike.
You know, people can be really good at analyzing data and missing or misconstruing the point. It isn't helpful ... but other can help when they see it happen.
You didn't look at equivalent bikes , one kitted out to cost $700 and one equipped to cost $1200. You went to an entirely different bike----different specs, sure, and different geometry and balance and fit ... and one fit you better.
That's like saying, "My lawnmower broke, so I went to get a new one ... I looked at a $500 lawnmower and a $200 microwave oven, and decided the lawnmower was better. See that's the difference between spending $200 and $500."
So when jefnvk says what he says ... In a way he is exactly right---the bike was not unridable because of price, as you intimated, but because it was simply the wrong bike. Possibly you could have ridden a $700 version ... or YOUR EXISTIGN $450 VERSION---and liked it just as much.
Pretty obviously the fact that you have the same bike again, and only paid $450, pretty much undercuts any notions that the price was in any way the determining factor ... it was just that you wanted and fit best on that Cannondale, and not the other bike.
You know, people can be really good at analyzing data and missing or misconstruing the point. It isn't helpful ... but other can help when they see it happen.
08-14-18, 02:36 PM
#130
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And FWIW, I have bought a $1200 bike instead of a perfectly adequate $800 one before, so yes, I can imagine spending more for something. I do, however, have reasons why I made the choice, I wouldn't just leave it as an open ended "oh the $800 was so awful I couldn't even pedal it". In my case, it came with the fat tires I wanted, had much smoother hydro brakes than cable, came from a manufacturer I already owned and was familiar with, was equipped with Shimano instead of SRAM drivetrains, and was a 2x10 instead of a 3x8-9.
Believe it or not, people buy things simply because they are more expensive, others may question when you portray seemingly nothing but a relatively modest price as a wildly different difference in basic rideability.
08-14-18, 02:44 PM
#131
Old and in the way.
My "attitude", as you put it, was you presenting the two bikes with no differentiation in any way but price, and me pointing out that the incredibly vast difference you were claiming between the two was far more likely due to size or geometry than what they cost. The simple fact you can't even remember what the $700 one was tells me that more than likely, it was not an apples to apples comparison.
And FWIW, I have bought a $1200 bike instead of a perfectly adequate $800 one before, so yes, I can imagine spending more for something. I do, however, have reasons why I made the choice, I wouldn't just leave it as an open ended "oh the $800 was so awful I couldn't even pedal it". In my case, it came with the fat tires I wanted, had much smoother hydro brakes than cable, came from a manufacturer I already owned and was familiar with, was equipped with Shimano instead of SRAM drivetrains, and was a 2x10 instead of a 3x8-9.
Believe it or not, people buy things simply because they are more expensive, others may question when you portray seemingly nothing but a relatively modest price as a wildly different difference in basic rideability.
And FWIW, I have bought a $1200 bike instead of a perfectly adequate $800 one before, so yes, I can imagine spending more for something. I do, however, have reasons why I made the choice, I wouldn't just leave it as an open ended "oh the $800 was so awful I couldn't even pedal it". In my case, it came with the fat tires I wanted, had much smoother hydro brakes than cable, came from a manufacturer I already owned and was familiar with, was equipped with Shimano instead of SRAM drivetrains, and was a 2x10 instead of a 3x8-9.
Believe it or not, people buy things simply because they are more expensive, others may question when you portray seemingly nothing but a relatively modest price as a wildly different difference in basic rideability.
Believe it or not some people don't like it when you take a snarky condescending attitude, you might want to consider that.
08-14-18, 04:31 PM
#132
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Look Starkmojo ... i realize no one does as much on these boards to undermine my "Decent interaction" campaign as i myself ... but let's try to work against me, eh?
You did make an untrue implication. You claimed that you tested two bikes and the one which was $500 cheaper was unridable, but the other was dream. The implication is that the bikes were in other ways comparable and the difference was whichever components increased the price.. That is simply wrong, and whether you knew the difference then, you certainly know it now as You referenced that difference in an above post.
I don't see any condescension in jefnvk's post ... he as was I, was pointing out that your deliberately unclear post fed fuel to an erroneous argument, and we don't need to be adding fuel to those.
You yourself say
Not really ... it was the fact that it was the sort of bike you wanted, and that it fit you, which made it worth the cost.
The discussion here is whether the extra few hundred makes a dramatic difference between bikes ... but if the bikes are not otherwise equivalent (same model, different build level) then the discussion goes nowhere. You know that, you aren't stupid.. So you knew when you posted that the cheaper bike was unridable, that you were deliberately distorting the discussion.
No one is talking down to anyone or trying to pick a fght with anyone ... unless you are, and I don;tget that impression. So let us not back into an acrimonius debate when we can continue a friendly discussion.
if you make the important points of your post clear and accurate, people won't later think you deliberately distorted facts to sway a debate. that's all.
Every one is glad you found the right bike for you, and I think anyone who has ridden one would say that modern Cannondales are as good as aluminum frames can get ... no drawbacks, no downsides.
You did make an untrue implication. You claimed that you tested two bikes and the one which was $500 cheaper was unridable, but the other was dream. The implication is that the bikes were in other ways comparable and the difference was whichever components increased the price.. That is simply wrong, and whether you knew the difference then, you certainly know it now as You referenced that difference in an above post.
I don't see any condescension in jefnvk's post ... he as was I, was pointing out that your deliberately unclear post fed fuel to an erroneous argument, and we don't need to be adding fuel to those.
You yourself say
The discussion here is whether the extra few hundred makes a dramatic difference between bikes ... but if the bikes are not otherwise equivalent (same model, different build level) then the discussion goes nowhere. You know that, you aren't stupid.. So you knew when you posted that the cheaper bike was unridable, that you were deliberately distorting the discussion.
No one is talking down to anyone or trying to pick a fght with anyone ... unless you are, and I don;tget that impression. So let us not back into an acrimonius debate when we can continue a friendly discussion.
if you make the important points of your post clear and accurate, people won't later think you deliberately distorted facts to sway a debate. that's all.
Every one is glad you found the right bike for you, and I think anyone who has ridden one would say that modern Cannondales are as good as aluminum frames can get ... no drawbacks, no downsides.
08-14-18, 04:35 PM
#133
Old and in the way.
Jesus Mary and Joseph Dude give it a rest, this is a discussion not a package measuring contest.
Lets talk about something useful like chain lube or something?
Lets talk about something useful like chain lube or something?
08-14-18, 07:50 PM
#134
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Bob, “I like the $12 chain lube.”
Hot Rod, “Nah, there’s no difference between any of ‘em.”
Steel Is Real, “Yeah, why would you buy chain lube when you can use motor oil?”
OP, “Better chain lube for John Q. Public.”
SJW, “Who’s to say what’s better chain lube? That sounds very judgmental to me...”
Nonseqitur, “I only use Japanese Whale Oil on my chain, it’s $500 an application.”
Superleggera, “John Q. Public only wants WD40. Why are you trying to force him to buy something he doesn’t want?”
Mr. Smith, “I like chain lube.”
- With apologies to all those making positive conrtibutions - whether we agree or not.
Last edited by Matt74; 08-14-18 at 07:53 PM.
08-14-18, 08:03 PM
#135
Old and in the way.
Bob, “I like the $12 chain lube.”
Hot Rod, “Nah, there’s no difference between any of ‘em.”
Steel Is Real, “Yeah, why would you buy chain lube when you can use motor oil?”
OP, “Better chain lube for John Q. Public.”
SJW, “Who’s to say what’s better chain lube? That sounds very judgmental to me...”
Nonseqitur, “I only use Japanese Whale Oil on my chain, it’s $500 an application.”
Superleggera, “John Q. Public only wants WD40. Why are you trying to force him to buy something he doesn’t want?”
Mr. Smith, “I like chain lube.”
- With apologies to all those making positive conrtibutions - whether we agree or not.
08-14-18, 09:08 PM
#136
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Who lubes their chain? Buying a new chain is far better than trying to rehab a cruddy used chain. Walmart sells them for like $7.
I'm done with this argument. Glad you like your bike, my point that price probably had nothing to do with it being the better bike for you still stands for anyone reading this in the future.
08-15-18, 04:41 AM
#138
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08-16-18, 03:09 AM
#141
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Well I have ridden bikes up to about the 3 Grand mark and prefer the CAAD. So no it wasn't the cost that made it better, it was the better that made it worth the cost. That's what I was saying. Back then I knew nothing about road bikes so I can only hazard a guess what the difference was but it wasn't for me and I knew that after 2-3 miles. Had the prices been reversed I still would have bought the CAAD.
Believe it or not some people don't like it when you take a snarky condescending attitude, you might want to consider that.
Believe it or not some people don't like it when you take a snarky condescending attitude, you might want to consider that.
You stated that you would continue to struggle up a specific hill on a new $700 road bike but easily sprint up the same hill on a new $1,200 road bike.
New LBS bikes in those price categories cannot differ enough to make your statement even remotely possible.
When I questioned this earlier in the poat you claimed that the 3 mile ride to the hill was the real issue.
Good stuff and to each his own right?
08-20-18, 08:21 PM
#142
Old and in the way.
Believe it or not some people don’t like it when you make equipment comparison statements without any supporting facts and at the same time use gross exaggeration.
You stated that you would continue to struggle up a specific hill on a new $700 road bike but easily sprint up the same hill on a new $1,200 road bike.
New LBS bikes in those price categories cannot differ enough to make your statement even remotely possible.
When I questioned this earlier in the poat you claimed that the 3 mile ride to the hill was the real issue.
Good stuff and to each his own right?
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