I think won that many stages if you count the TTs (not including the stage he gave away to, the little pirate)

Those who would have the most appreciation for the work and dedication required to win the TdF seem to be among the least vindictive.

By the way ... Lance was caught a couple times ... and given a pass by the UCI, who wanted his U.S. publicity value. Check out his amazing testosterone cream, which wrote its own prescription post facto.

Some serious stupid in this thread.

And the whole of [MENTION=385973]mstateglfr[/MENTION]'s post #97 .... excellent post.

Is there a difference between not breaking the rules and not getting caught? [MENTION=409777]McBTC[/MENTION]: If someone breaks into your house and cleans you out, it is fine so long as they don't get caught, right? You'd say those thieves deserve their rewards? What's your address and what's a good time to drop by when no one will be home?

There is a lot to discuss regarding Lance Armstrong and the various aspects of his actions .... thrusting one's head deeply up one's fundament is probably not at the top of any one's list of ways to offer valid points.

Well . ... maybe the top of one poster's list .....

Sounds like what a defense lawyer is hired to do?

Everyone is really saying the same thing.
Lance doped, better than the rest, won, lied about it and then tried to disparage others that called him a doper.

https://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/r...y-Analogy.html

Breaking the rules for personal gain and breaking in to someone's house for personal gain are really two entirely separate issues.....
It would be more compatible to say, that I had a house keeper that was hired. No drugs allowed for my employees I find out my housekeeper is taking cocaine. But he/she is doing such a great job that I am not too concerned about it.. He/she is doing it in half the time anyone else's housekeeper is getting it done. They're doing a great job and I'm saving money.. If they're stealing my **** by breaking in that's a whole different ballgame....

ha ha, lance was just compared to a coked up housekeeper.

its a bad comparison to what happened with lance and also a bad comparison to counter the logical conclusions that made fun of mctbc's absurd comment.

bad, but funny. Lance as a coked up housekeeper- heh heh.

If LA hadn't won, another doper would have. If the sport has changed now, great-- this year's TdF was among the best I've seen. But, pretending no one breaks the rules is ridiculous. Anyone here ever drink alcohol or smoke a cigarette when underage or smoke weed when it was illegal? Would it be fair to require that everyone on this group who has ever exceeded the speed limit should never drive a car again? Sure, sure, no one should lie but, the government was brought in because LA raced for the USPS and that changed everything-- we see what's happened with the Mueller investigation... lie to the feds and risk losing your freedom -- not for what you did but for lying -- unless, you rollover on someone else.

Probably a lot of the personal antipathy toward LA is because he makes people feel like lazy dicks... LA had a work ethic that few can match-- no amount of drugs will get'm off their arses, let alone pull off miracles. That's what I meant above about, 'gotta to give the devil his due.

No, you are 100% wrong.The reason he is disliked is because of actions like those shown in the video below.
He'll never be forgiven because he is about as bad of a human being as possible.
And he wonders why people won't forgive him. He's a joke.

Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Race-I.../dp/034553042X

Then come back and explain to us why Tyler Hamilton is wrong when he describes the effects of doping had on his performance.

Except that in this case lance was actually taking money which others were also competing for.

If Lance had stolen his own money (?) or had somehow ripped off his team ... but in this case Lance was taking money from sponsors under the guise of a clean rider (which is why he has to give it back) and also taking money form otehr riders ... the fact that they were also doping only means that there was a criminal conspiracy to defraud clean riders.

Sorry, but that analogy doesn't hold up. Lance was profiting in a zero-sum game --- it was not a victimless crime. And the things he did to intentionally and successfully ruin the careers of those who threatened him, or whom he perceived as threatening, were also not victimless crimes.

if your coke-crazed housekeeper started selling your stuff o pay for your habit ..... or started stealing from your house guests ... we;d'd have a better analogy.

Whatever. if people find it convenient to defend criminals, that's their option. Sort of like how organized crime figures are romanticized ... or bank robbers used to be. Sure, the money is insured, and the robbers are just "getting even with the Man" ... but the bank guards who was barley feeding his kids on his meager salary and got killed in the line of duty ... he and his wife and kids get forgotten.

Defend cheating if you like cheating. or if it preserves your narrative, or for whatever reason.

Then explain to the people Lance savaged and ruined, how he is really a hero because he cheated better.

^ This is a classic internet forum answer.

continues to deliver. Just loving the train wreck that is your reasoning. Keep it coming, please!

I'll rephrase, if I sponsor a sporting event for big money and catch the winner with a needle in his arm. That is for the court system to decide how we would proceed against him. If I give someone my address as you ask for in the above post and I catch that someone coming in to my house for any reason. That will be for the court system to decide how they would proceed with charges against me. Big difference I believe . Is cheating and lying a bad situation yes it is .... Is breaking and entering a bad situation? Oh hell yes....

I have zero sympathy for him as a man. He ruined people's lives who were his friends, colleagues, business partners, teammates, etc.

I have a lot of admiration for his ability on a bike but without the doping he wouldn't have achieved quite as much against the competition he had in the day. I respect him for his crusade against cancer and Live Strong but ultimately he betrayed that organization and all the people that worked there.

Read Tyler Hamilton's book The Secret Race. Good read and gives you a better perspective inside Lance's circle.

In the end, he got what he deserved and paid a heavy price. However, I really don't think he is truly sorry for what he did to people. I think that's just Lance being Lance. He's not a nice person and what he did was criminal.

I pretty much was basing it on the fact I set my alarm and was watching it at an ungodly time in the morning PST... the commentary you have to admit was stellar.

You may be the only one who gets it... putting ideologically motivated causes aside -- which when invoked pretty much excuses or vindicates historical figures, no matter what they did -- you've 'gotta give the devil his due, or you're just too close to the event to have an unbiased opinion.

If the devil actually got his due in this case, he'd have gone to prison for perjury. He only admitted it after the statutes of limitations were up.

You seem to have no grasp of how nasty he was in his abuse of American and British courts.

nasty to British courts...? that is bad...

Just wondering... if Emma O Reilly were your daughter and Lance called her a prostitute with a drinking problem, would you still idolize him just because he was good at pedaling a bicycle?

Emma is not vindictive at all of then and now friend, LA but, she doesn't have much good to say of prosecutor, Walsh…

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...cyclist-doping