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Threadless HS on Threaded Steerer

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Threadless HS on Threaded Steerer

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Old 01-07-19, 06:00 PM
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TiHabanero
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Threadless HS on Threaded Steerer

On two previous bikes I have set up Chris King no thread headsets on threaded steerers without any trouble using quill stems. At the shop the other day one of the persnickety wrenches laughed and said I was going to ruin the headset or crash from a component failure. I then explained to him why it works the way it is set up using the top nut as the compression force and a clamp down cable hanger as the setting device so that it does not come loose. He was impressed.

Told him it was all I had once and made it work and now have used it on two bikes this way without any issues. Going to do it again on a third bike.
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Old 01-07-19, 06:51 PM
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Sheldon said..

I have read of a mixed use thread less headset on the portion of the fork not threaded .. that makes sense ,,
then your spacers and a through threaded nut ant the top nut to lock against each other..

quill stem is long enough to support the threaded end from the inside.. I got out thr threading die and cut more thread
as it happened I needed a little welding on the head tube..

being threaded so long the fork was its own headset press .. to put it back together again .. & i continued my tour for another 6 months..



I have a King No thread on my Bike Friday Tikit They use a conic ring and clamp set ; as you tighten the pinch bolt its tapered inner face forces the conic ring downward

providing the pre-load folding steering mast has a quill, it goes in the fork, & when its folded down you have the wedge bolt head access,, the top part backs up the expanding clamp ring

On the New BF bikes they use a 2nd clamp ring, to back up the expanding one... those, the Mast above is removable for travel pack size reduction..




.../..
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Old 01-07-19, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
On two previous bikes I have set up Chris King no thread headsets on threaded steerers without any trouble using quill stems. At the shop the other day one of the persnickety wrenches laughed and said I was going to ruin the headset or crash from a component failure. I then explained to him why it works the way it is set up using the top nut as the compression force and a clamp down cable hanger as the setting device so that it does not come loose. He was impressed.

Told him it was all I had once and made it work and now have used it on two bikes this way without any issues. Going to do it again on a third bike.
pics please
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Old 01-08-19, 02:32 AM
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I've used A-Head sets / Threadless on various threaded forks with no problems. I had considered if the grooves in the thread could be a weak point, but then they have to take the stress of being pulled apart when a threaded headset is locked-up. And the quill stem tube isn't perfectly snug, so that wouldn't protect against fatigue.
Still, it's a weak point against non-threaded - you could always slide a tube down there, on a deeply recessed star nut, if you were concerned about that (22.2 for a 1in steerer, 25.6 for a 1.1/8).

The only other thing is clamping the stem on the thread. The 1in stem on my Merlin has been clamped onto thread numerous times, and has no damage to it's clamping surface from it.
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Old 01-08-19, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
On two previous bikes I have set up Chris King no thread headsets on threaded steerers ...it works the way it is set up using the top nut as the compression force.
With you so far.

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
...a clamp down cable hanger as the setting device so that it does not come loose.
So the cable hanger takes the place that would otherwise have been occupied by the top race?(2nd from top, not counting spacers or washers)

Unless the cable hanger is used, you might get a neater look if you can find a fitting seat post collar.

There are also top races with a clamping feature, they pull together like seat post collars and let you do without locknut.
One of those flipped over would also work.

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
one of the persnickety wrenches laughed and said I was going to ruin the headset or crash from a component failure..
Can't see why.
You have preload, and a way to lock it in place.
And a quill stem in a steerer that expects to be used with a quill stem.

You MIGHT, possibly, have some wear/chafing issues eventually due to the threadless headset now resting against a threaded surface.
My guess is that it will take plenty of miles to get there, if ever.
And it's very unlikely to toss you into the ditch.
Riding with a loose HS would be a very unusual cause of loss of control.

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Told him it was all I had once and made it work and now have used it on two bikes this way without any issues.
IMO, that's a perfectly fine approach. The parts are used close enough to their original purpose that it should work and not add any important amount of risk. What you're most likely to lose from trying is time.

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Going to do it again on a third bike.
I probably wouldn't.
I'm all for using what's on hand, but if I have to buy stuff anyhow, I prefer to buy parts that are intended to go together.
If nothing else, it might make life easier for some unsuspecting future mechanic/owner.
Unless there's a functional advantage to a mixed set of parts of course. And maybe you have that many CK HS and clamp-on cable hangers in stock?
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Old 01-08-19, 10:09 AM
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As I interpret 'clamp down cable hanger ' around stem does what tightening stem atop fork under top cap does ..

Although with 1 smaller bolt rather than 2 .. Larger ..


Thread is Cut into steerer , so un cut is stronger,,, in a threaded stem the stem quill shaft helps.. ,

if wedge expands below, within the un threaded portion..



...OP
how old are those mechanics? how many years have they worked there ? doing just new builds or repairs And new builds ?


....

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-08-19 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 01-09-19, 01:18 PM
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Quill stem is being used. The cable hanger acts as a headset locker (think BMX from the days of yore). My threaded Campy headset is trashed and I have yet another threadless headset in 1" so it will have to do. The head mechanic is really good and a bit of a perfectionist and does not like to do things half-a'd. Where's the fun in that?
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Old 01-10-19, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Quill stem is being used. The cable hanger acts as a headset locker (think BMX from the days of yore). My threaded Campy headset is trashed and I have yet another threadless headset in 1" so it will have to do. The head mechanic is really good and a bit of a perfectionist and does not like to do things half-a'd. Where's the fun in that?
So confused still.
What preloads the headset if a quill stem is used?
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Old 01-10-19, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
So confused still.
What preloads the headset if a quill stem is used?
the threaded nut probably. it appears that the cable hangar is used as a spacer.
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Old 01-10-19, 12:13 PM
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"the threaded nut probably. it appears that the cable hangar is used as a spacer. "

Exactly. The threaded top lockinging nut from an old threaded headset is being used to preload the bearing. The locking cable hanger is used to secure the adjustment in place. At this point the top nut could be removed, but that leaves the unfinished end of the steerer tube exposed. This headset is an old Cane Creek, the others are Chris Kings, so I am hoping the Cane Creek works as well in this rigged setup.
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Old 01-10-19, 12:36 PM
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It took me a few times to get what was going on, and it makes sense now, but i don't see any benefit to adding a cable hanger (spacer) and top nut to a threadless headset so that i can fit it on a threaded fork.
Unless it's either a parts-on-hand repair, or some really off-the-wall combination of parts, i don't see why you wouldn't just use a threaded headset. (they're still pretty easy to find)
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Old 01-11-19, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653 View Post
It took me a few times to get what was going on, and it makes sense now...
Well at least others follow what is happening.
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Old 01-11-19, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Well at least others follow what is happening.
The way I understand it, he's using a clamp-on cable hanger against the top bearing, being preloaded by the top nut from the old threaded headset. Once the preload is right, then he tightens up the clamp to 'lock' it.
This is on a threaded steerer, using a quill stem. Once assembled, it looks and functions just like a threaded headset.

Again, unless you've got some weird size that is out of production for decades (1-1/4" Threaded MTB?) I'm not sure why this would be a preferred setup over the correct threaded headset. 1" is still widely available, in from Sunrace to Campy Record, and 1-1/8 threaded are still out there, if not as common.
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Old 01-11-19, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
So confused still.
What preloads the headset if a quill stem is used?
Something vaguely like this, I think:

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Old 01-11-19, 02:44 PM
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HTupolev , has it right. Now to add fuel to the fire I found a wave washer that fits the steerer tube and have removed the clamp down cable hanger and replaced with some spacers and the wave washer. Will see what happens to the top nut. Was thinking of adding a coil spring, but didn't have one on hand. Just trying to clean up the look a little.
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