Motorist don't know they are suppose to share the road
07-07-05, 04:46 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by jabowker
It is in the Texas Drivers Handbook.
You mean people actually read those things???!!! I just go take the test. I imagine most other people do as well.
07-07-05, 06:07 PM
#27
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Sawtooth, exactly my point!
I just started riding again after decades of walking, running, driving etc...
I remember seeing the Share The Road signs (while driving a car and before I became a cyclist) and I can remember thinking, "Oh, what a cute sign -it's so yellow
"
You might think that sounds alot like what a airhead would say, but I had no idea how serious this problem was...
It needs to be pounded into the heads of motorists.
I just started riding again after decades of walking, running, driving etc...
I remember seeing the Share The Road signs (while driving a car and before I became a cyclist) and I can remember thinking, "Oh, what a cute sign -it's so yellow
"You might think that sounds alot like what a airhead would say, but I had no idea how serious this problem was...
It needs to be pounded into the heads of motorists.
07-07-05, 08:31 PM
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dc, you have too much time on your hands. Riding in a major driving lane backing up vehicular traffic just to prove that you can is idiotic. Cyclists have to understand that they are slower moving vehicles and pose a danger to both themselves and other vehicles. I know there are plenty of stupid drivers on the roads who just can't wait to get close to a bike. Try being in a marked police car with lights on and still have a trucker try to blow your hat off. There has to be common sense of the part of BOTH cars and bikes.
07-07-05, 09:15 PM
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I sometimes see cyclists while in my parents car who ride right in the lane even when there is a large shoulder, even if it is legal, why do it?
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07-08-05, 02:31 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by DCCommuter
But even accepting that bicycles are vehicles, this law says you can ride EITHER in the right lane, OR as far right as "practicable." "Practicable" is not the same as "possible." On a bicycle, the furthest right practicable position is often several feet from the curb.
For a full discussion of the difference between "possible" and "practicable," don't take my word on it, read this brief prepared for a cyclist who was charged with not keeping to the right (and acquitted): https://crankmail.com/fredoswald/court_ca.pdf
For a full discussion of the difference between "possible" and "practicable," don't take my word on it, read this brief prepared for a cyclist who was charged with not keeping to the right (and acquitted): https://crankmail.com/fredoswald/court_ca.pdf
How Far Right?
Laws
Most bicycle laws use the same language regarding where cyclists should drive
Directions to ride "as far to the right as practicable" appears in most laws
No clear definition of practicable has been identified
Safety
Do not ride where you are subject to poor road conditions constant hazards
Give yourself ample room to your right to maneuver in an emergency
Ride in the right third of the lane if there is not sufficient room for lane sharing
Traffic rules
Slower moving vehicles travel to the right of faster moving ones
Motorists are looking for other vehicles in or near the travel lanes, not against curbs
Follow the same rules as motorists including yielding right-of-way and signaling
Wide lanes
Ride just to the right of the travel lane to remain visible to other motorists
Ride at least 3 feet from parked cars in all situations; consider this a right side limit
Always ride in a straight line; do not swerve between parked cars
Hazards
If a lane narrows ahead or is blocked by a bus, establish your position in traffic early
Avoid riding where glass and other trash accumulates on the right side of roadways
Grates and gutterpans should be avoided by positioning yourself away from them
Laws
Most bicycle laws use the same language regarding where cyclists should drive
Directions to ride "as far to the right as practicable" appears in most laws
No clear definition of practicable has been identified
Safety
Do not ride where you are subject to poor road conditions constant hazards
Give yourself ample room to your right to maneuver in an emergency
Ride in the right third of the lane if there is not sufficient room for lane sharing
Traffic rules
Slower moving vehicles travel to the right of faster moving ones
Motorists are looking for other vehicles in or near the travel lanes, not against curbs
Follow the same rules as motorists including yielding right-of-way and signaling
Wide lanes
Ride just to the right of the travel lane to remain visible to other motorists
Ride at least 3 feet from parked cars in all situations; consider this a right side limit
Always ride in a straight line; do not swerve between parked cars
Hazards
If a lane narrows ahead or is blocked by a bus, establish your position in traffic early
Avoid riding where glass and other trash accumulates on the right side of roadways
Grates and gutterpans should be avoided by positioning yourself away from them
07-08-05, 05:23 AM
#31
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I believe that the "Share the Road" sign gives the impression to many motorists that is just a kind suggestion rather than the law. It's like "Please be kind to the poor slow cyclist, folks". This is unlike the "Buckle Up! It's the Law" signs that are seen in most states.
Motorist are just SO impatient. They are just not going to patiently SHARE the road, even if they know that they are under obligation of the law. When did complience of the law make a difference to anyone behind the wheel. As long as cyclists are in such a minority on the roadways, they won't see much respect from most drivers. I am new to serious cycling, after a couple of decades off. I can't get used to much street riding. I guess that I am just doomed to be stuck on the bike paths.
Motorist are just SO impatient. They are just not going to patiently SHARE the road, even if they know that they are under obligation of the law. When did complience of the law make a difference to anyone behind the wheel. As long as cyclists are in such a minority on the roadways, they won't see much respect from most drivers. I am new to serious cycling, after a couple of decades off. I can't get used to much street riding. I guess that I am just doomed to be stuck on the bike paths.
Last edited by Lion Steve; 07-08-05 at 05:31 AM.
07-08-05, 08:45 AM
#32
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Sentinel-
I don't take up the lane just to be an a$$, I only do it where there IS NO SHOULDER for me to ride in. Most of the roads around here were originally cow paths. They are narrow and twisty, and run through historic districts, so they can't be widened. I have had personal contact with 5 cars in my 20 years of riding. Two of those were people opening doors into traffic, the other 3 were drivers not paying attention, either trying to squeeze by in "our" lane due to oncoming traffic, or the one time an elderly woman backed out of a driveway without looking. All 5 were people who didn't take the time to look around and see what was going on outside of their steel cages. Everyone is distracted by radios, cell phones, navigation units, fast food, and screaming kids in the back seat. They don't pay any attention to where they are on the road (I can't tell you how many times I've almost been sideswiped by drivers who can't seem to stay in one lane, EVER), they don't pay attention to signs, and they certainly don't pay attention to the dayglo colors that most of us wear to make us more visible. Let's not even get in to ignorance of the law. Even common sense doesn't apply to most people.
I don't take up the lane just to be an a$$, I only do it where there IS NO SHOULDER for me to ride in. Most of the roads around here were originally cow paths. They are narrow and twisty, and run through historic districts, so they can't be widened. I have had personal contact with 5 cars in my 20 years of riding. Two of those were people opening doors into traffic, the other 3 were drivers not paying attention, either trying to squeeze by in "our" lane due to oncoming traffic, or the one time an elderly woman backed out of a driveway without looking. All 5 were people who didn't take the time to look around and see what was going on outside of their steel cages. Everyone is distracted by radios, cell phones, navigation units, fast food, and screaming kids in the back seat. They don't pay any attention to where they are on the road (I can't tell you how many times I've almost been sideswiped by drivers who can't seem to stay in one lane, EVER), they don't pay attention to signs, and they certainly don't pay attention to the dayglo colors that most of us wear to make us more visible. Let's not even get in to ignorance of the law. Even common sense doesn't apply to most people.
07-08-05, 09:02 AM
#33
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It is kind of glazed over here in MD, but it is mentioned.
I don't know if it says that you MUST stay as far right as possible though.
I don't know if it says that you MUST stay as far right as possible though.
07-08-05, 09:54 AM
#34
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From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I feel that signage helps. I don't get hassled much here in St. Louis, and typically only take an aggressive vehicular stance when there is no other practical place to ride. When I do take a vehicular stance, I try to push my speed up over 20mph, to limit my affect on traffic. I still get honked at and yelled at, but it seems to happen a lot more in neighborhoods without any 'share the road' type signage.
It may be that some people believe that you don't have to share the road by default, just in places that have the signs, which means you either need signs everywhere, or more clear signage that indicates that its always the law, not just the law on that particular street.
Something like, "State Law: Cyclists allowed full lane" in a big yellow diamond with a picture of a bicycle or something. I think some places have ones like this already.
Motorists, in general, know very little about the law. They know red means stop, you aren't supposed to go more than 10mph above the speed limit, and you should usually use that lever on the side of the steering column before you turn. I'm proud of my friend though, she used to yell at cyclists from inside her car (probably not loud enough for them to actually hear) when they would take the lane. I talked to her about the law, and about why I take the lane when I have to and so on. Then a few months later we are driving along and she slows down because a cyclist has the lane. Someone else in the car says, "Man, that pisses me off, he should be on the sidewalk!" and my friend, totally on her own, gives the other person a mini-lecture on bicycling law and safety. I was very proud.
peace,
sam
It may be that some people believe that you don't have to share the road by default, just in places that have the signs, which means you either need signs everywhere, or more clear signage that indicates that its always the law, not just the law on that particular street.
Something like, "State Law: Cyclists allowed full lane" in a big yellow diamond with a picture of a bicycle or something. I think some places have ones like this already.
Motorists, in general, know very little about the law. They know red means stop, you aren't supposed to go more than 10mph above the speed limit, and you should usually use that lever on the side of the steering column before you turn. I'm proud of my friend though, she used to yell at cyclists from inside her car (probably not loud enough for them to actually hear) when they would take the lane. I talked to her about the law, and about why I take the lane when I have to and so on. Then a few months later we are driving along and she slows down because a cyclist has the lane. Someone else in the car says, "Man, that pisses me off, he should be on the sidewalk!" and my friend, totally on her own, gives the other person a mini-lecture on bicycling law and safety. I was very proud.
peace,
sam
07-08-05, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by phidauex
I'm proud of my friend though, she used to yell at cyclists from inside her car (probably not loud enough for them to actually hear) when they would take the lane. I talked to her about the law, and about why I take the lane when I have to and so on. Then a few months later we are driving along and she slows down because a cyclist has the lane. Someone else in the car says, "Man, that pisses me off, he should be on the sidewalk!" and my friend, totally on her own, gives the other person a mini-lecture on bicycling law and safety. I was very proud.
07-08-05, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by samundsen
I agree the section in the Texas Drivers Handbook is quite good. However, I believe most people ignore this section when reading for their drivers test, I know I did when I took mine. They simply do not think the section on bicycles apply to them (they're not riding bicycles!). I don't remember if there was any questions on the test regarding bikes.
I'm wondering what it will take to get the local authorities to replace the motorcycle above our local "Share The Road" signs with bicycles?
07-10-05, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jabowker
I'm wondering what it will take to get the local authorities to replace the motorcycle above our local "Share The Road" signs with bicycles?
It will take people like those who speak out on this forum to become vocal about the needs of serious cyclists.
Become letter writers. Write to your concressperson about your needs and keep a copy of the letter in your file -just in case you need to prove your point, or defend your position at a later date.
07-10-05, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by demoncyclist
Sentinel-
I completely disagree that bikes "can't hold up other traffic." I am entitled, at least under MA General Law, to as much of the lane as I need to travel safely. If that means that a dozen cars are stuck behind me, doing 15mph, because the road is narrow and twisty with no shoulder, and they can't safely pass me, well too bad.
Phinney-
Signs are useless. They are posted all over the place around here, and I don't think anyone reads them. Most people don't stop at stop signs, and have no f@#%ing idea what a yield sign means, so why should they care about sharing the road with cyclists? They are too busy trying to juggle cell phones and coffee cups.
I completely disagree that bikes "can't hold up other traffic." I am entitled, at least under MA General Law, to as much of the lane as I need to travel safely. If that means that a dozen cars are stuck behind me, doing 15mph, because the road is narrow and twisty with no shoulder, and they can't safely pass me, well too bad.
Phinney-
Signs are useless. They are posted all over the place around here, and I don't think anyone reads them. Most people don't stop at stop signs, and have no f@#%ing idea what a yield sign means, so why should they care about sharing the road with cyclists? They are too busy trying to juggle cell phones and coffee cups.
then again the "Courtesy thing" goes both ways
Example I live on a back country road, very skinny as when cars pass each other both of them have tires in the grass. I am in my truck and a group of cyclist 5 of them had been riding 3 wide and 2 wide. As I approached the rear of them they saw me and went 2 wide but still was riding the yellow line. I followed them for a bit and gave plenty of time for them to single file up or move over.
They didn't want to do that so I passed them anyways. (they moved over then)
I feel I gave them pleanty of time and the deserved courtesy, and if they wanted to be clowns about it then they can talk to my 33" mud tire
Maybe I have a differant view on things growing up in a farm community, Tractors!!!! they own the road and get right of way. But I haven't seen a single one of them not return favors and pull over or off after a line of cars pile up on them.
MY opinion is there is already to many dang laws, instead of making more teach people respect and courtesy and everybody and everything would flow so much better.
then again as hard as i try to respect, I have my limits too. Some days the limits are really low LOL
