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Speed differences between bikes

Old 10-11-20, 06:03 PM
  #26  
jay4usc
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
Well, now two nice bikes.

Went to a LBS that we had not been to to get a pair of shoes. As we got in the car my wife asked, "Youre not planning to bring a bike home I hope." Said no, just shoes. Saw the 2020 Domane in Navy. Wife immediately said "Buy it - it looks like you." How do you say no to that.

Well N+1 does not always equal N+1 as she scoped out a Roubaix for herself.

they look like identical bikes with different brand names. I can’t wait for the used market next year lol. Hope your cooking a nice dinner for your wife.

Last edited by jay4usc; 10-11-20 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 10-11-20, 06:26 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by jay4usc View Post
they look like identical bikes with different brand names. I canít wait for the used market next year lol. Hope your cooking a nice dinner for your wife.
Yes, they both have two wheels, a saddle, and pedals. Other than that there are great differences between the frames. Look closer.
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Old 10-11-20, 06:36 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Yes, they both have two wheels, a saddle, and pedals. Other than that there are great differences between the frames. Look closer.
I was kidding. I also know there’s $1k difference

Last edited by jay4usc; 10-11-20 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-11-20, 06:51 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by jay4usc View Post
they look like identical bikes with different brand names. I can’t wait for the used market next year lol. Hope your cooking a nice dinner for your wife.
Fairly different. She tried a couple of Treks, but found the fit of this better for her. She got to make her pick without much constraint. That’s the one that resonated with her.

And yes, we had some nice filets that I grilled, baked potato, and a salad. I’m now having an aged rum on the rocks.

Finally, while you might find a lot of bikes on the used market sometime, we don’t typically do that. We usually stick with things, but add new activities from time to time.
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Old 10-11-20, 06:54 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
Fairly different. She tried a couple of Treks, but found the fit of this better for her. She got to make her pick without much constraint. Thatís the one that resonated with her.

And yes, we had some nice filets that I grilled, baked potato, and a salad. Iím now having an aged rum on the rocks.

Finally, while you might find a lot of bikes on the used market sometime, we donít typically do that. We usually stick with things, but add new activities from time to time.
You need pedals!!! Nice pair of bikes btw.
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Old 10-11-20, 06:56 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
You need pedals!!! Nice pair of bikes btw.
They are on the workbench. Didn’t have time to do that yet.

stillneed to get a few things - Blendr mount, lights, and install the computer.
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Old 10-11-20, 07:02 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
Fairly different. She tried a couple of Treks, but found the fit of this better for her. She got to make her pick without much constraint. That’s the one that resonated with her.

And yes, we had some nice filets that I grilled, baked potato, and a salad. I’m now having an aged rum on the rocks.

Finally, while you might find a lot of bikes on the used market sometime, we don’t typically do that. We usually stick with things, but add new activities from time to time.
Oops, I thought you were buying the Trek for you. Enjoy riding!

Last edited by jay4usc; 10-11-20 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 10-11-20, 07:42 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jay4usc View Post
Oops, I thought you were buying the Trek for you. Enjoy riding!
You thought right - Trek for me and Specialized for her. Iím not man enough to ride a raspberry bike.
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Old 10-11-20, 11:33 PM
  #34  
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Awesome story. Coincidentally, I test rode a 2020 Trek Domane SL6 and liked it right from the start. Great fit and finish. It was Ultregra mechanical. I was smitten by the hidden tool compartment in the down tube. Nice feature. But the fit wasn't working for me. I was too stretched out on the only SL6 they had. (The ONLY one in town due to COVID suppy chain issues. I needed a shorter stem and they said they couldn't get one for a few more weeks. I went to another LBS and found a 2020 Specialized Roubaix Comp Ultegra Di2 and it fit me like a glove. It felt quicker, but just as compliant and it was marked down $400! I bought the 2020 Roubaix Comp Disk with Ultegra Di2. I LOVE Di2!!! After a few rides I am in love with the compliance, comfort and fit. I also had them swap the tires over for a set of tubeless.

To your story, what a great wife! ...and you can ride together too. Awesome.

Last edited by gairman; 10-12-20 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 10-12-20, 04:03 AM
  #35  
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Video here comparing two road bikes, one a heavy cheap road bike with a limited 12-25 cassette but at least it is freehub based. It's groupset is mainly Claris. The bike cost £200. Another bike Boardman branded which was about £2000 but has an equivalent spec to many of the major brand bikes up to £4k in the UK. So quite extreme difference and yet the cheap bike averaged 33.3km/h vs 35.4km/h for the expensive bike. That's a 6% difference in speed, I'm sure some will argue that difference is huge and others will be disappointed by the difference between such extreme bikes its really down to your viewpoint. I think the same Muddyfox bike with perhaps a 11-34T cassette and maybe a CF fork would achieve over 34km/h but that is a guess by me. I've seen the Giant Contend Claris which is sub 10kg and sold for less than £400 at times in the UK (not now of course) would probably achieve easily over 34km/h. 17mph is about 27km/h. Ultimately the real speed difference is dictated by the rider not the bike as the speed difference between riders is huge and the speed difference between bikes is very small but if you are a competitive cyclist who wants to win a 1 second gain over 20 miles could be the difference between winning and losing.

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Old 10-12-20, 07:07 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
the answer is ď4.Ē
Correct.

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Old 10-12-20, 07:14 AM
  #37  
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As nice as the Domane is, let's be honest. It is the quintessential weekend warrior "Dad" bike. Nothing wrong with that but every aspect screams, "I am 55 (or older) I want to look fast but really want something comfy"
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Old 10-12-20, 07:32 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
As nice as the Domane is, let's be honest. It is the quintessential weekend warrior "Dad" bike. Nothing wrong with that but every aspect screams, "I am 55 (or older) I want to look fast but really want something comfy"
Well, I am 63. I know my limitations and my expectations are reasonable.
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Old 10-12-20, 09:41 AM
  #39  
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My take on your question, the Sirrus you have is a beautiful bike that is more than capable of meeting your needs, it's basically a flat bar road bike with the added ability to do some gravel work if you wanted to try it due to the larger tires. It already has a higher end Shimano drivetrain, hydraulic disc brakes and a top of the line aluminum frame with a carbon fork and a built in shock absorbing system in the head tube.
The only thing your looking for is a very minor increase in speed? It simply isn't worth making a change. If it was me and the incremental increase was that important, and I had the cash, I'd simply buy another bike that was a road bike.
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Old 10-12-20, 10:24 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Bonzo Banana View Post
Video here comparing two road bikes, one a heavy cheap road bike with a limited 12-25 cassette but at least it is freehub based. It's groupset is mainly Claris. The bike cost £200. Another bike Boardman branded which was about £2000 but has an equivalent spec to many of the major brand bikes up to £4k in the UK. So quite extreme difference and yet the cheap bike averaged 33.3km/h vs 35.4km/h for the expensive bike. That's a 6% difference in speed, I'm sure some will argue that difference is huge and others will be disappointed by the difference between such extreme bikes its really down to your viewpoint. I think the same Muddyfox bike with perhaps a 11-34T cassette and maybe a CF fork would achieve over 34km/h but that is a guess by me. I've seen the Giant Contend Claris which is sub 10kg and sold for less than £400 at times in the UK (not now of course) would probably achieve easily over 34km/h. 17mph is about 27km/h. Ultimately the real speed difference is dictated by the rider not the bike as the speed difference between riders is huge and the speed difference between bikes is very small but if you are a competitive cyclist who wants to win a 1 second gain over 20 miles could be the difference between winning and losing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow7MdsSVQuw
Another figure here from the article I linked. This is figure 2, which parses the components of the overall power requirement for a drop bar, racing bike. Note how dominant the air resistance term becomes at higher speeds. Most of whatís left over is energy loss in the tires (until you reach about 30mph, as I read it.)




So, not that surprising to see only some few percent difference in cheap and expensive bikes, probably divided between the differences in tires plus the marginal but measurable impact of a lighter bike during climbs where the gravity term is significant and usually dominant.

Otto

Last edited by ofajen; 10-12-20 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 10-12-20, 10:43 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by trainchaser View Post
My take on your question, the Sirrus you have is a beautiful bike that is more than capable of meeting your needs, it's basically a flat bar road bike with the added ability to do some gravel work if you wanted to try it due to the larger tires. It already has a higher end Shimano drivetrain, hydraulic disc brakes and a top of the line aluminum frame with a carbon fork and a built in shock absorbing system in the head tube.
The only thing your looking for is a very minor increase in speed? It simply isn't worth making a change. If it was me and the incremental increase was that important, and I had the cash, I'd simply buy another bike that was a road bike.
Well, I wasn't just looking for an incremental increase in speed. I was just wondering if there was a difference in speed between a bike such as the Sirrus and a road bike. My thought was that there likely was not, and I've always known that the biggest differentiator was the guy in the saddle, but I was curious if there was much difference between bikes that were comparable in a lot of way, but different in others. The replies to this thread simply confirmed what I already suspected - put me in the saddle of the Sirrus or a nice road bike and I probably would not notice much difference.

I agree the Sirrus is a very nice bike, probably the nicest I've ever owned until yesterday. It has a nice drivetrain, a very nice carbon frame, doesn't weigh a ton, rolls well (better after changing to Conti 28 tires), and moves along very efficiently. It doesn't have the FutureShock head tube.

My big reasons for wanting the Domane are these - more aero riding position when I want it (it's usually pretty windy here), a bit more compliant ride that lets me ride further without fatigue from road vibration, and an additional vehicle to vary my riding and keep me motivated and interested. I also want to increase my riding skills, and the two will give me a bit of "cross training" type riding. The additional cost is not an issue.

I love the Sirrus for what it is, and have no desire to give it up. I also love the Domane, especially in the navy color (which I know will not be available very often and hated to pass up). I'm sure I will continue to enjoy both.
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Old 10-12-20, 10:46 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Another figure here from the article I linked. This is figure 2, which parses the components of the overall power requirement for a drop bar, racing bike. Note how dominant the air resistance term becomes at higher speeds. Most of whatís left over is energy loss in the tires (until you reach about 30mph, as I read it.)




So, not that surprising to see only some few percent difference in cheap and expensive bikes, probably divided between the differences in tires plus the marginal but measurable impact of a lighter bike during climbs where the gravity term is significant and usually dominant.

Otto
Yeah that sounds reasonable. His test was just going for a ride so he was likely stopping at junctions and lots of variables. Lighter bikes are easier to get up to speed, easy to push off and get going each time you stop and a bit easier on the hills but I do
remember seeing a comparison where a heavier bike with higher gearing was actually faster on a relatively flat course with no stopping. Also a bike that had larger thicker tyres travelled faster on rough ground which again was at a weight disadvantage.

Ultimately you configure your bike for the best specification for you. I'd rather have a comfortable safe bike that gives me the best exercise in order to lose more calories. I actually think a hybrid is a great option for general riding. Versatile and strong.
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Old 10-12-20, 10:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
As nice as the Domane is, let's be honest. It is the quintessential weekend warrior "Dad" bike. Nothing wrong with that but every aspect screams, "I am 55 (or older) I want to look fast but really want something comfy"
"Nothing wrong with that but ..." But you have a problem with that.

What's your issue with middle aged men wanting to go fast and be comfortable?
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Old 10-12-20, 10:11 PM
  #44  
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[QUOTE=Mulberry20;21739620]As nice as the Domane is, let's be honest. It is the quintessential weekend warrior "Dad" bike. Nothing wrong with that but every aspect screams, "I am 55 (or older) I want to look fast but really want something comfy"


that’s pretty shallow of you
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Old 10-13-20, 05:01 AM
  #45  
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You've gotten plenty of good data above, here's an anecdote that is close to your situation:

I bought a Domane 2017 SL6 disc after 20 years of riding an old Schwinn 7 speed hybrid and then a Trek 520 touring bike - I'm not a racer, mostly long recreational rides and touring. When I added the 520 many years ago, I said "Yup, leaning over more is faster" an average speed increase riding with the same routes with the same tires and bikes that weighed about the same.

With the Domane, the riding position is a bit more upright than the 520, a bit more leaned over than the old hybrid. The bike is lighter and I'm lighter - my deal with myself was to lose 20 lbs and then buy a "mid-life crisis" bike. But I had a number of rides on the old bikes at the lower weight. On the same 32mm Schwalbe tires, I'm another 1-2 mph faster on my typically rolling hill/1 or 2 decent climb 30 - 50 mile rides. On shorter flatter rides, not as much difference, maybe .5 mph but that is kind of in the margin of error.

I don't use a power meter on the outdoor bikes (I donated the hybrid to a cycling advocacy group and the 520 is now mostly used on an indoor trainer on Zwift) but since I've been using Strava for a while, the "Matched Ride" feature shows that my faster times on all common routes are on the Domane and where I came close, it was usually on the 520 at a higher average exertion level.

Bottom line - if you feel like buying a new bike, you can use the "I will get to work faster..." as one of the justifications...
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Old 10-13-20, 07:24 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
"Nothing wrong with that but ..." But you have a problem with that.

What's your issue with middle aged men wanting to go fast and be comfortable?
[QUOTE=jay4usc;21740852]
Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
As nice as the Domane is, let's be honest. It is the quintessential weekend warrior "Dad" bike. Nothing wrong with that but every aspect screams, "I am 55 (or older) I want to look fast but really want something comfy"


thatís pretty shallow of you
I'm a dad with two very successful kids. I even have the "dad bod" to prove it. I'm quite proud of that moniker.

Takes a lot more than that to offend me.
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Old 10-13-20, 07:35 AM
  #47  
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The bike business has gone completely overboard on the subject of "comfort". What's next? Massaging saddles? Heated handle bars? Do 25 year olds really need electric bikes?

The whole sport has gone soft at the consumer level. Exercise is not supposed to be comfortable, it should be the opposite. It should hurt.
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Old 10-13-20, 08:15 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The whole sport has gone soft at the consumer level. Exercise is not supposed to be comfortable, it should be the opposite. It should hurt.
Why?
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Old 10-13-20, 08:24 AM
  #49  
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I can answer the 'why' part, and it has been the same since I was a fairly active and decent climber, another sport with a sizable percentage of participants who don't understand that their 'heroic' grandstanding comes from ego issues and deep seated feelings of inadequacy that they then try to address through 'heroic' sports efforts.

Hey, I can respect self-abuse in the name of competition, but deciding how much pain other people should endure just so you can feel better about yourself is pretty sketchy psychic territory.
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Old 10-13-20, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Marylander View Post
Why?
My guess is he's 20 years old or so and doesn't want to admit that the body ages and changes.

If my back or neck hurts riding a Madone or Tarmac because my body is no longer as flexible as it once was or the pain from tendonitis flares up in my elbow because every little road impact transmits to my arms, then I'm not going to ride. If I can get a bike that is fun to ride without causing pain, then I'm going to ride and exercise more.
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