indyfabz

I have seen some trail regs that expressly allow them. It all depends on who has jurisdiction over the trail. I think you’d have a serious ADA problem if you tried to ban them.

john m flores 

I don't think that it's fair to characterize all e-MTB users as trail-destroying hooligans. That's the same characterization that hikers make of mountain bikers - extreme knuckleheads that have no regard for the trail or others. Both are false.

There are likely many e-MTB riders who are respectful of trails and other trail users and would welcome cooperation from the greater biking community.

big john

In that area there is no way up except the trails. There are a few of us who ride up those hills on regular bikes but you have to like climbing. I have an enduro type bike so not a DH bike but can still handle some pretty rough descents. People do go up there on XC bikes and hardtails. I actually don't go there very often these days, partly due to my age.

The good thing about that area is there are not a lot of hikers or equestrians so there is not a lot of conflict. At least not that I have heard about.

3alarmer

...this might very well be true. Nonetheless, on Federal forest lands in the United States, electric mountain bikes have caused enough problems that they have been restricted to roads and trails designated for motorized vehicle use. So these would be the same trails that dirt bikes, ATV's, and 4wd vehicles already use in the national forests. You can read it here, if you choose.

Forest Service Statement on Electronic Bicycle Use:

I anticipate that this trend will gradually spread. I also anticipate that unlawful use of non motorized trails by at least some e-bikers will continue to be problematic. Some national forest areas here in California are already pretty crowded. IN Tahoe, this has been a polarizing issue for a while now. There are many national forests where usage is much less intensive. In those areas, groups that want legal access to trails other than the motorized ones are free to seek exemption plans for their area.

Regardless, I applaud the federal officials who looked carefully at this technology, and have called it what it is. I realize not everyone in this thread feels similarly. But just letting this all work itself out, hoping the problems already demonstrated will somehow fix themselves, by a combination of industry self regulation and user group self discipline, was never all that realistic.

big john

There are trails around here which do have conflict between users. Some of the regular mountain bike riders are concerned that the "wild man" e-bikers will jeopardize their hard fought access. I realize some human powered riders are inconsiderate of others but the advent of powerful, long travel e-bikes gives people who wouldn't normally go up long climbs the ability to do so.

big john

Last I heard, wheelchairs of any kind are not allowed in wilderness areas.

Troul 

like in grade school, when one class clown causes problems, the whole class suffers.

big john

In California motorcycle riders and their passengers are required to wear helmets. The only bicycle helmet law is for people under 18.

john m flores 

Great, so the 60+ year old, low key mountain biker who now needs some electric assistance can no longer join her children and grandchildren on a mountain bike ride even though she was the one that got them hooked on cycling in the first place. And you're applauding that?

3alarmer

...yes. They can all ride together on the motorized trails. No problem at all.

This issue of the poor, disabled, aging e-biker who will now be a shut in, because there's limited access to trails, seems to be a popular meme.
They also used it in that 2021 Tahoe Basin article I quoted. I don't understand it, but I guess it has emotional appeal for you.

There are still plenty of places to ride e-bikes. And they will generate fewer problems and have less impact on the terrain.

The whole Marin mountain bike history starts out with old Schwinn klunkers on the fire roads around here. They had a pretty good time doing that. There are roads in the national forest areas that go just about everywhere, except into the wilderness areas. Anyone can use them, even your hypothetical 60 year old grandma with poor health and a yearning for the great outdoors.

PeteHski

Labelling all e-bikes as motorbikes is of no practical benefit. A 250W pedal assist e-road bike should not be confused with a Honda Fireblade.

john m flores 

LOL that's like saying that I'm like Tadej Pogacar 😂

3alarmer

...the practical benefit is a simplification of enforcement. Given the enforcement resources of the Forest Service, and their other many concerns, that's a significant benefit. Everyone in this thread who has said, "Well if speed is the problem, just enforce the speed limits," contributed to this decision, in a very real way. There was considerable community involvement in many localities in arriving at this decision as the national policy. You shouldn't complain about it, if, as a market demographic and an industry, you thought that this evolving aesthetic of bigger, faster, more powerful e-bikes got all of them classified as motorized vehicles.

But most importantly, nobody I know of is riding 250 watt, pedal assist e-bikes on forest service trails. There are a lot of just plain mountain bikes, and an increasing number of 8 and 10 thousand dollar long travel MTB's from the various manufacturers.

I'd be curious to see your 250 watt MTB example, if you want to post it. Here's one 250 watt bike on Amazon

3alarmer

.
...never mind, I found one. It has a seven speed rear and grip shifters. Possibly the decision was made to restrict these to motorized trails and roads is to facilitate rescue and evacuation, when it breaks down.

shelbyfv

I'm not making any judgement as to how they should be regulated. Regulations come and go. For now some ebikes are exempt from regulation and that's fine with me.. On the other hand, I wouldn't lose sleep if I had to buy a tag for my pedal powered bike. Motorbike is accurate if it has a motor. Pretending motors don't differentiate ebikes from regular bikes is disingenuous. But heck, we've had this conversation before and as pointless as it is, we may have it again unless the thread is in the ebike section. As a matter of etiquette I don't bother on their turf.

shelbyfv

I've read that when Rangers catch mountain bikers riding illegally in Wilderness areas, they will confiscate one wheel so the perp has to carry the bike out. That would be a workout for the 60 year old grandma with a 70 pounder. May be an urban(?) legend but it's fun to think about.

daihard 

That's sort of my point. Electric wheelchairs are used by people who wouldn't be able to get around without them, and I don't think anyone would raise their eyebrows when they see those on "non-motorized" trails.

3alarmer

...I'm trying to picture that wheelchair, and the trail. Maybe you could flesh this out a little, because I'm not really understanding what you're trying to say with this ? You know that, among their many other responsibilities, park rangers are responsible for extricating people who get into trouble on the trails they travel on. right ? Why would anyone with that responsibility think it a good idea to send someone off on a non motorized trail in the woods, in an electric wheelchair ? Are we talking about two different versions of "trails" ?

I'm unaware of any motorized wheelchairs that can handle forest trails, but if you know of any, I'd love to see one.

Oops, never mind, I found one. Looks expensive. I wonder how many they make and sell every year ? The things I learn here.

LarrySellerz

The more I read this thread, the more I believe that ebike haters are just salty that they are slow. Great title by the way

3alarmer

...that's hurtful, Larry. I might be slow, but I'm too proud to draft an e-bike. Did you get home OK, after that tire failure ? Who'd you call, anyway ?

LarrySellerz

I like drafting ebikes.. I try to talk to them first now though after scared a woman commuting though who I think thought I was stalking her or something. Not asking for permission, just saying hi and telling them that I’m “using them as a windbreak” if they don’t look like someone who knows about drafting. Octogenarian roadies who turned to the dark side are surprisingly common around here and always happy to give me a draft, which is awesome. I have zero shame and will draft all day lol.

Called my housemate, he offered to give me a ride earlier cause I think my ribs are broken or bruised from clipping a stopped truck at an intersection last week. Can’t take a deep breath a week later. Riding is fine but I can’t ride out of the saddle at all. Making judicious use of the zig zag method of climbing hills.

someone told me the zig zag is called traversing. Anyone else heard this and know the origin of the term?

Jan Feetz

Thats so cool! I would commute on down the local mup, that way I wont arrive to work all sweaty.

LarrySellerz

How long do you think it will be before we have to register our bikes? I bet it will be rolled out to the Dutch in the next 20 years. I’ve been mocked and ridiculed IRL for suggesting they will come for my bike when talking about laws limiting the sale of cars with internal combustion engines.

Troul 

Speed would likely be a non issue if the effort to gain speed was from 100% manual labor vs assist.
rather than just ping others for speeds, which requires calibrated equipment, it would be cut & dry for identifying the proper equipment for intended trail use.

mrodgers

Must... clutch... pearls!!!

People are doing things different than some people think they should be doing. It's 2023, we have an obligation to society to point out that people are enjoying their lives differently than we think they should be enjoying life.

That's sarcasm for the folks who don't understand it...