Locking technique
10-25-06 | 08:06 AM
#26
Faster but still slow
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,978
Likes: 2
From: Jersey
Bikes: Trek 830 circa 1993 and a Fuji WSD Finest 1.0 2006
It's very simple folks. Two boys are running away from a bear and one says, theres no way we can run faster than that bear, and the other says, well, I only have to run faster than you actually.
I figure as long as my locking strategy is better than the next guys, my bike will be the number 2 choice all things being equal. With all the bikes hardly locked at all out there I don't worry too much but then again I don't lockup anywhere near a campus either.
I figure as long as my locking strategy is better than the next guys, my bike will be the number 2 choice all things being equal. With all the bikes hardly locked at all out there I don't worry too much but then again I don't lockup anywhere near a campus either.
10-25-06 | 08:48 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 114
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Bikes: Waterford RS-22;Bottechia-giro 'd italia(ca.1971)
+1 no matter what, if a thief wants your ride-he'll get it-or at least some of it. Locks are designed to keep the honest man(woman) honest-end of story. Best way to keep your bike yours is to keep it where you can watch it-as in- with you.
10-25-06 | 01:54 PM
#28
Originally Posted by San Rensho
Hmm, so he has done a statistical study and determined that a thief has never carried a power tool? Well these guys in the video did and nobody even looked twice at them.
As for the two guys in the video, it only proves two things: 1) Passersby won't interfere with guys they assume are the owners, and 2) that two guys who own a bike aren't going to be paranoid about cutting the lock off their own bike. A thief making all that racket wouldn't be as cocky, because there's always the chance that he could get whacked in the back of the head by the real owner as he's busy trying to cut a u-lock in broad daylight. Yes, theoretically it's possible to go out with power tools and cut away for 10 or 15 minutes, but that theoretical possibility doesn't take into account the paranoia the thief will be battling as he's wasting all that time in a very noisy, high-profile endeavour. I don't think it happens as easily as these guys portrayed in their video.
10-25-06 | 03:04 PM
#29
.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,769
Likes: 38
From: Rocket City, No'ala
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Treviso, 1990 Gardin Shred, 2006 Bianchi San Jose
I only lock my bikes when they are on the bike rack on my car; then it's two cable locks that go through both bikes, each other, and the rack, plus two u-locks. It would be far easier to simply steal the vehicle. Otherwise, my bikes are indoors. If I lived in NYC, my street bike would be either a beater or disguised as one and I'd use multiple locks, cables, chains, grenades, rottweilers, whatever it took.
Where I live, though, people leave bikes out in the front yard, driveway, porch, etc. unlocked forever. Down at the local pool, some old man left his commuter bike there for a week and a half. I felt sorry for it. He came and got it and still rides around the neighborhood.
Where I live, though, people leave bikes out in the front yard, driveway, porch, etc. unlocked forever. Down at the local pool, some old man left his commuter bike there for a week and a half. I felt sorry for it. He came and got it and still rides around the neighborhood.
__________________
10-25-06 | 05:44 PM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 2
From: Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
Bikes: Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
Consider this was done in New York City. Walk around this small little Southern town with bolt cutters and see what happens. Just possessing them would be considered a weapons charge. (Bluduging weapon)
10-25-06 | 06:00 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Boston
Bikes: Jamis Coda Sport '06
I've toyed with the idea of getting a chain to complement my U-lock but I'm not sure I can see myself hauling around another 9 pounds of chain consistently. It would add that right sided pannier permanently to my commute and I'm not sure I'm all that fond of that thought. In the meantime I'll trust my luck to the Pitlocks and the Fahgeddaboudit U-lock.
10-25-06 | 06:10 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 998
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If you are locking your bike at the same place often, and the people either don't mind, don't care, or are too lazy to cut it off, you might consider just leaving the chain wrapped up on the rack, so you don't have to carry it. Of course, carry the U-lock everywhere so you can lock up at other places, but the added security of the chain will help at your bicycle's main haunts.
10-25-06 | 06:53 PM
#33
The video is "faked", or the lock in question is a very poor quality lock. The editors of "Cycling Plus" and the locksmiths at "Soldsecure" have tested the best bike locks on the market against the tools known to be used by REAL crooks out on the streets of cities such as New York, Toronto, and London. The results are consistent: a "gold" rated lock such as the Kryptonite New York u-lock can NOT be opened during a ten minute test using portable tools.
In fact, not only did the "gold" rated u-locks survive a ten minute assault using portable tools, most of them showed little or no damage when assaulted by the tools crooks actually use in the real world.
So, any video that shows a lock be opened easily has been faked, or the lock is NOT a "gold" rated lock. I've talked with the bike messengers working in downtown Houston, the bike police who work in downtown Houston, the campus police at Houston colleges and universities (the only police forces who actually take bike theft seriously, and do detailed reports and investigations of bike thefts). None of them have seen a documented, proven case of a bike being stolen that was verified to have been CORRECTLY locked using a "gold" rated u-lock.
In one of the most crime ridden cities in the world, the reports are consistent: real world crooks target the bikes that can be stolen less than one or two minutes using portable, silent tools that can be concealed in a pocket, or in a messenger bag. They target cable locks, and chain locks and u-locks made by "fake" lock companies such as Master lock. They do NOT target a bike that is correctly locked up with a "gold" rated u-lock. In the ten, twenty, or thirty minutes it would take to break a "gold" rated lock, they could steal five, ten, or fifteen bikes locked with cable locks, and cheapo u-locks and cheapo chain locks.
www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
In fact, not only did the "gold" rated u-locks survive a ten minute assault using portable tools, most of them showed little or no damage when assaulted by the tools crooks actually use in the real world.
So, any video that shows a lock be opened easily has been faked, or the lock is NOT a "gold" rated lock. I've talked with the bike messengers working in downtown Houston, the bike police who work in downtown Houston, the campus police at Houston colleges and universities (the only police forces who actually take bike theft seriously, and do detailed reports and investigations of bike thefts). None of them have seen a documented, proven case of a bike being stolen that was verified to have been CORRECTLY locked using a "gold" rated u-lock.
In one of the most crime ridden cities in the world, the reports are consistent: real world crooks target the bikes that can be stolen less than one or two minutes using portable, silent tools that can be concealed in a pocket, or in a messenger bag. They target cable locks, and chain locks and u-locks made by "fake" lock companies such as Master lock. They do NOT target a bike that is correctly locked up with a "gold" rated u-lock. In the ten, twenty, or thirty minutes it would take to break a "gold" rated lock, they could steal five, ten, or fifteen bikes locked with cable locks, and cheapo u-locks and cheapo chain locks.
www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
10-25-06 | 07:15 PM
#34
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
In one of the most crime ridden cities in the world, the reports are consistent: real world crooks target the bikes that can be stolen less than one or two minutes using portable, silent tools that can be concealed in a pocket, or in a messenger bag. They target cable locks, and chain locks and u-locks made by "fake" lock companies such as Master lock. They do NOT target a bike that is correctly locked up with a "gold" rated u-lock. In the ten, twenty, or thirty minutes it would take to break a "gold" rated lock, they could steal five, ten, or fifteen bikes locked with cable locks, and cheapo u-locks and cheapo chain locks.
Bike Nearly Stolen
A friend and I were sitting outside at Vincente's at 20th and Hawthorne about an hour ago -- it was still light out. We had our two bikes locked to a standard blue bike rack about twenty feet away. I saw someone walk up to the rack and squat down in front of my bike. I ran up to him, yelling, and saw that he had a pair of eighteen inch bolt cutters on my lock (it was one of the stout, inch-thick cable locks, but who knows if it would have held up). He jumped up and cocked the bolt cutters back to swing at me... we yelled at each other for a minute, and he hopped on his beater bike and rode off.
Another guy was standing around, and he started telling me he had just met this guy, and had no idea he was a thief. Someone sitting at a table (ten feet away from the bikes!) pulled me aside and said that these two had been hanging out together and seemed to know each other well. Further, this second guy had been riding back and forth, scouting out these bikes for several minutes. He hopped on his bike and rode away while the witness was telling me all this.
These people called the police on their cell, and they showed up about ten minutes later. To their credit, they immediately got physical descriptions of both these guys (the second was bald, with the word "Cathy" tattooed on his neck, so he stood out a bit!) and radioed them out to their network right away.
No word yet on whether they found either of them... I think I'll be shopping for one o' them $70 Kryptonite locks, in the meantime. Kind of an eye-opening experience!
...
Both men were late thirties to early forties, pretty scroungy-looking. Both would probably be easily identifiable as homeless or at least very "street" (weathered-looking). The actual thief was about 5'8" or 5'9", with shortish dark hair, and the other guy was bald, with a very noticable tattoo on his neck reading "Cathy." Both were on beat-up mountain bikes (one a Mongoose, the other some stripped raw aluminum thing). Although I'm sure those were stolen, and probably get swapped out pretty quickly.
A friend and I were sitting outside at Vincente's at 20th and Hawthorne about an hour ago -- it was still light out. We had our two bikes locked to a standard blue bike rack about twenty feet away. I saw someone walk up to the rack and squat down in front of my bike. I ran up to him, yelling, and saw that he had a pair of eighteen inch bolt cutters on my lock (it was one of the stout, inch-thick cable locks, but who knows if it would have held up). He jumped up and cocked the bolt cutters back to swing at me... we yelled at each other for a minute, and he hopped on his beater bike and rode off.
Another guy was standing around, and he started telling me he had just met this guy, and had no idea he was a thief. Someone sitting at a table (ten feet away from the bikes!) pulled me aside and said that these two had been hanging out together and seemed to know each other well. Further, this second guy had been riding back and forth, scouting out these bikes for several minutes. He hopped on his bike and rode away while the witness was telling me all this.
These people called the police on their cell, and they showed up about ten minutes later. To their credit, they immediately got physical descriptions of both these guys (the second was bald, with the word "Cathy" tattooed on his neck, so he stood out a bit!) and radioed them out to their network right away.
No word yet on whether they found either of them... I think I'll be shopping for one o' them $70 Kryptonite locks, in the meantime. Kind of an eye-opening experience!
...
Both men were late thirties to early forties, pretty scroungy-looking. Both would probably be easily identifiable as homeless or at least very "street" (weathered-looking). The actual thief was about 5'8" or 5'9", with shortish dark hair, and the other guy was bald, with a very noticable tattoo on his neck reading "Cathy." Both were on beat-up mountain bikes (one a Mongoose, the other some stripped raw aluminum thing). Although I'm sure those were stolen, and probably get swapped out pretty quickly.
10-25-06 | 11:42 PM
#36
tired
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,651
Likes: 2
From: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Originally Posted by TomM
Maybe it wasn't a thief but somebody who didn't like the bike owner.
10-26-06 | 01:46 AM
#37
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 998
Likes: 0
Dedicated bike thief rings can sometimes move into otherwise low-crime areas, just to steal from a medium to large sized college campuses, and most likely either part the bike out or just sell it out of state for a good profit. Unfortunately, I don't have the web links pointing to this info atm. :/
10-26-06 | 06:41 AM
#38
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 2
From: Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
Bikes: Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
The video is "faked", or the lock in question is a very poor quality lock. The editors of "Cycling Plus" and the locksmiths at "Soldsecure" have tested the best bike locks on the market against the tools known to be used by REAL crooks out on the streets of cities such as New York, Toronto, and London. The results are consistent: a "gold" rated lock such as the Kryptonite New York u-lock can NOT be opened during a ten minute test using portable tools.
In fact, not only did the "gold" rated u-locks survive a ten minute assault using portable tools, most of them showed little or no damage when assaulted by the tools crooks actually use in the real world.
So, any video that shows a lock be opened easily has been faked, or the lock is NOT a "gold" rated lock. I've talked with the bike messengers working in downtown Houston, the bike police who work in downtown Houston, the campus police at Houston colleges and universities (the only police forces who actually take bike theft seriously, and do detailed reports and investigations of bike thefts). None of them have seen a documented, proven case of a bike being stolen that was verified to have been CORRECTLY locked using a "gold" rated u-lock.
In one of the most crime ridden cities in the world, the reports are consistent: real world crooks target the bikes that can be stolen less than one or two minutes using portable, silent tools that can be concealed in a pocket, or in a messenger bag. They target cable locks, and chain locks and u-locks made by "fake" lock companies such as Master lock. They do NOT target a bike that is correctly locked up with a "gold" rated u-lock. In the ten, twenty, or thirty minutes it would take to break a "gold" rated lock, they could steal five, ten, or fifteen bikes locked with cable locks, and cheapo u-locks and cheapo chain locks.
www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
In fact, not only did the "gold" rated u-locks survive a ten minute assault using portable tools, most of them showed little or no damage when assaulted by the tools crooks actually use in the real world.
So, any video that shows a lock be opened easily has been faked, or the lock is NOT a "gold" rated lock. I've talked with the bike messengers working in downtown Houston, the bike police who work in downtown Houston, the campus police at Houston colleges and universities (the only police forces who actually take bike theft seriously, and do detailed reports and investigations of bike thefts). None of them have seen a documented, proven case of a bike being stolen that was verified to have been CORRECTLY locked using a "gold" rated u-lock.
In one of the most crime ridden cities in the world, the reports are consistent: real world crooks target the bikes that can be stolen less than one or two minutes using portable, silent tools that can be concealed in a pocket, or in a messenger bag. They target cable locks, and chain locks and u-locks made by "fake" lock companies such as Master lock. They do NOT target a bike that is correctly locked up with a "gold" rated u-lock. In the ten, twenty, or thirty minutes it would take to break a "gold" rated lock, they could steal five, ten, or fifteen bikes locked with cable locks, and cheapo u-locks and cheapo chain locks.
www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm
The video was more a sociologly experiment rather then a demonstration on how to steal a bike. Hundreds of people walked by, especially when he was using a hacksaw, and didn't say anything. The only thing the cops did was stop them from taping! The one person who did stop helped him!
10-26-06 | 03:33 PM
#39
Senior Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 0
From: Bootiful Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: GT Edge for the road/Specialized Hopper (well the frame and the bb, everything else is new) for the dirt
Originally Posted by DieselDan
The video was more a sociologly experiment rather then a demonstration on how to steal a bike. Hundreds of people walked by, especially when he was using a hacksaw, and didn't say anything. The only thing the cops did was stop them from taping! The one person who did stop helped him!
My bike locking:
If it isn't under my fat ass it is secured by a U-Lock and/or a Kryptonite chain. Even inside my house.
Keeps my stuff mine.
I dipped the last three links of the chain in liquid rubber after I dinged the paint on my bike when she was brand spankin' new.
10-27-06 | 11:46 AM
#40
Good Afternoon!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 0
From: Rural Eastern Ontario
Bikes: Various by application
Originally Posted by mechBgon
If you refer to the first post in the thread, you can see that the risk of ruining a whole bike did not stop thieves from attempting to steal the bike. They were evidently willing to trash it pretty badly in hopes of carrying off what was left. People over in Commuting are sometimes discussing filling in their hex-key fittings with epoxy to deter the theft of their derailleurs and whatnot, so a whole bike with a dead rear wheel (but everything else intact) might have more value to the thieves than you think.
I don't think they'll like the mechBgon method either
I can't speak for any bike thieves, but I'd expect dual-point locking of the frame and both wheels to solidly-anchored objects to have a strong deterrence factor on sight. And it appears to me that it would also inhibit lift-&-twist attacks, since the bike (or *cough* the rear wheel) can no longer be pivoted on one lock. Given that I take two locks along anyway, as Alan himself advocates quite frequently, that's how I'm going to use them. If your method is secure, then I think mine is moreso.
I don't think they'll like the mechBgon method either
I can't speak for any bike thieves, but I'd expect dual-point locking of the frame and both wheels to solidly-anchored objects to have a strong deterrence factor on sight. And it appears to me that it would also inhibit lift-&-twist attacks, since the bike (or *cough* the rear wheel) can no longer be pivoted on one lock. Given that I take two locks along anyway, as Alan himself advocates quite frequently, that's how I'm going to use them. If your method is secure, then I think mine is moreso.Many riders don't want to carry 2-3 locks everywhere they go, and most riders in the US don't need to, do they? Except in the large cities a bike is probably secure all day using the Sheldon method, in some places overnight. In the big cities it works fine for short hops, just not a long stay and no system at all works overnight as we all know.
Strange no one will acknowledge the difference in Sheldons method even if they don't agree it's worthwhile, the need to tout their own method as superior is too much to bear.
Have fun with it if you can.
11-01-06 | 06:25 AM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
From: Porkopolis, OH
Originally Posted by SamHouston
The first post sounds like the victim of a drunken or mischievious college student. Bike thieves by and large steal to resell or trade, destroying the entire bike? where was the gain, and what sort of regular bike thief thinks they can lever a Krypto mini with just the frame & have something left to steal? On campus you say? In Portland? I doubt it was a bike thief.
