A few weeks back I started reading bike forums to get familiar with good ideas for buying a bike.
Most of the posts focused on the role of the LBS, and how the store could be helpful finding a good fitting, comfortable bike, within the customers price range.
During a two week span I visited 7 different shops within close proximity to my home. The shops were quick
to offer test rides, but short on any helpful information.
Specifically, I wanted a salesperson to explain to me what correct bicycle riding posture looked like, so I could try it on my test rides. I wanted the salesperson to do more on the fit side then have me straddle the bikes top tube looking for clearance, especially on the bikes with a slanted tube. I wanted a couple of pointers on correct shifting technique.
I guess my expectations were unrealistic. The good news is I did enjoy test riding several 2009 model bikes:

Trek 7100
Trek FX 7.1 , 7.3
Marin 29er
Raleigh detour 4.5
Jamis Coda
Bianchi hybrid
'09 Specialized Sirrus
'09 Sirrus Sport

I wanted to keep trying to find an LBS I liked, however I ended up buying an '08 Sirrus Sport because I liked the ride of the bike, and it was the last one they had in my size. At least I hope it's a good size for me, since the LBS was not much help regarding fit or size.

Shopping LBS' was an interesting experience. I got a lot of attitude which surprised me. I am an older guy who hasn't ridden a bike since I was a kid and am looking to get some better exercise and fitness. So I am a beginner. Is that a crime ?Isn't that the typical profile for an LBS customer ?

LBS's seem to vary considerably in the helpfulness and attitude of personnel. It can also vary depending on who is working on the day that you go in. I would ask about a fitting to the bike I was interested in purchasing. Some areas of fit are quite subjective such as bar height. This is dependent on customer age, flexibility, fitness level and intended use and can change as riding experience and condition level increase.

Generally speaking the bars will be set higher and slightly closer on a touring bike than on a sports bike, both with drop handlebars for instance. Flat handlebar bikes generally set you more upright normally and cruisers set you almost fully upright for most people. Each intended for different purposes and riding intensities.

My LBS I use most has a large collection of stems that are used to get the bar fit right on a bike. They also adjust seat height, angle and horizontal position while you are pedaling with the bike clamped in a trainer.

Hopefully your LBS experience was due more to Christmas time overload than a normal type attitude.

The riding position question is one that is hard for LBS to answer because of individual preferences.

I have been in one of the largest bike stores in the area here a couple of times, and been pretty well ignored, and been in other times, and had 7 or 8 people ask if they could help me. I think that relates to how busy they are.

There have been posts in the Clydesdale forum relating to bike shop attitudes. Some shops see a fat person and say "Doesn't look like Cyclist material to me." Others say "That person should be riding a bike!" and have a sale that the first shop passed up.

The nearest bike shop, the people are always friendly, and they all ride. But some ride mountain bikes and stuff, so I don't know if they're all that up on fitting road bikes.

One or two of the local shops I've been in, there was just a single person working there, which doesn't leave them a chance to do much more than ring up sales.

Some of the shops seem to cater to more experienced cyclists, and just really don't seem interested in you if you're not already into their sport. That seems shortsighted to me. I think it's a similar reaction as if you walk into the Rolls Royce dealership wearing overalls.

Are you saying your LBS will install different stem heights on a bike the customer is considering ?

I am 45 years old, 6', 190 pounds. I don't know if that puts me in the "Clyde class" or not.
Anyway, my idealist view is that shops selling customers $500 and up worth of merchandise should have professional salespeople which take some pride in introducing potential customers to the world of bicycling.My visits were mid morning and weekday afternoons. Several salespeople in the stores but never more than one customer besides myself.
My Plan A, as recommended on internet forums, was to find an LBS which I liked. Since that did not work out, I went to Plan B and took a guess which bike would be a good fit for my physique and my riding needs.

I've heard of a saying, "if you walk into a Chinese restaurant and there aren't any Chinese eating... then chances are, the food isn't good Chinese food." Be especially wary when the chef isn't Chinese either, haha.

A funny analogy, but there is some truth that most LBSs have a strength area due to the staff and management they have, and only a few good LBSs can be all things for all people. I have gotten to know all of the bike shops in and around my city, and I know where to go for what. For my mountain bike needs then I go here, for road bikes then I go there, for BMX I go where BMXers hang out. Cheap parts I go here and for service and repair I avoid that one... and so on.

Pays to look around until you find your "bike oasis." Unfortunately, more and more of them are closing...

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So there is not a textbook type good riding posture technique ?
I assumed there was such a thing, as there is in other sport activity's, but maybe bicycling is not technique oriented. I've got a bike now and will experiment with different postures to see what works well for me.

There are plenty of good Chinese food restaurants in my home city, San Francisco.
SF has many bike shops too, and I was hoping to find one with a salesperson that put a big emphasis on fit, since "good fit" seemed to be the overwhelming common recommendation on bike internet forums.

My LBS does this too.

In fact, they won't let you take a bike for a test ride until after they've made these basic fitting adjustments and watched you in the trainer for a bit. I was a half-hour in the trainer while we fiddled with saddle height and position, bar height and reach (replacing the stem), then finally lever position. Only after we were all satisfied, then they let me loose.

Naturally, the bike felt so great I bought it. Then it was back into the trainer for fine tuning.

I've seen them do the same thing with first-time buyers looking at entry-level hybrids.

^ wow, they need a customer appreciation award or something! But it's common sense really - customer satisfaction thru correct fitting bikes! Basic stuff that isn't so basic these days...

Drop by the 50+ forum, and you will no longer be an "older guy." We have some other young'uns like you hanging around the 50+ forum and we generally tolerate them well.

Also, we have a GREAT sticky thread on bicycling tips for returning/beginning 50+ folks. You might find it useful.

That is what we do as well.
Bike fitting is a large part of our business. We get people from all ends of the state as well as Kentucky, Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio. Vern is well known in the triathlon circles, apparently, and people will travel a long way to get a fit from him and/or to buy a bike from us.

We have 2 triathletes on staff as well as one volunteer. We have 2 roadies on staff (me and Rob) who also happen to be mountain bikers (I have a Rocky, he has a Slingshot). Rob is tall, lanky, and Vegan, so he appeals to that crowd and can address their concerns intelligently. Antonia (his GF and the sales manager) is a tri-geek, Vegan, and obviously female. She works with most of our female customers. I'm fat and vegetarian....usually. So, the Clydes don't have any problems once they actually get in the door. That's been the problem. Letting Clydes know that we actually CAN work with them, get them a proper bike fit, get them a bike that will take abuse, and that we DO have clothing in stock that will fit them. We, obviously, also don't make them feel like they shouldn't be riding. They SHOULD be riding. We let them know that we're going to make it as easy as possible for them to start riding safely.

I can't even imagine working in a Quickie-Serv bike shop any longer. Throw the customer out the door on a bike that might or might now fit doesn't seem to me to be the right way to have life-long repeat customers....

Technically speaking, you're too young for the 50+, but we're a tolerant bunch who allow youngsters to join us. The athletic world looks at Clydesdale and Athena (the women's version of Clyde) as weight-based without taking height and frame into consideration, even though that's very unrealistic. 200 for men, 150 for women. As I said: unrealistic. I don't think anyone is going to call an Alexander Ovechkin a Clyde, but by their definition he is. He's also 6'2" and very well muscled. Very. Well. Muscled. And over 200 pounds. And so by that definition, you're not a Clyde. But you could be a fairly fine-boned 6-footer and could be considered chubby at 190. Join us anyway, take a look around both the Clydesdale/Athena and 50+ forums. We don't bite. Hard.

LBSs vary all over the map. My first road bike was a relatively inexpensive Raleigh. The store sold me one that was grossly undersized with too short a stem and the skinniest spokes I have ever seen, 16 gauge as I recall. I was over 200# at the time. Needless to say wheel problems developed. Absolutely no fitting was done and I was too ignorant of biking at the time to know better. The bike fit was so bad it discouraged me from riding for years.

The frame was about 52 or 54 cm and normally I want a 57 or 58cm frame now. All in all a very disappointing experience. This was 30+ years ago now.

Hmmmmm... Chineeeese... (in a Homer voice)... all of a sudden... I must have Chinese!!

.

Just a note... it's almost impossible to do a fit without clipless pedals and shoes. When you walk into a LBS and ask about a Sirrus Sport or Detour 4.5.... sorry, but a "fit" doesn't often come up in conversation. A road bike or mountain bike.... hell yeah. Chances are if you're even considering a Detour 4.5, a long ride isn't exactly on your main goal. Therefore, fits aren't that important. Buy a Sirrus or Detour 4.5 and want a fit? It should be taken care of for you.

Being from the area I'm curious as to which shops you visited; several are owned by friends of mine, too. Until I read that it was SF I was thinking winter staffing could be part of it but certainly the bay area is pretty good year round weather wise although the shops do have some seasonality to them still. Some of the shops do cater to specific audiences, that's very true. We don't have as many shops as we once did; Stanyan street certainly isn't what it was, although it's still pretty good. Frankly, hybrid bike shopping may not bring out the best in service from several shops I can think of. PM me if you don't want to broadcast names and I can give you some opinions...

Did you read the recent article on slowtwitch.com about bike shops and fitters? I think the article is trying to say that its difficult to do both. This is coming from a triathlete point of view.

Posture: I was told that the flat back is better than the curved, hunched back. Its supposed to allow for better breathing from the diaphram. Also it allows for a more relaxed neck position since the flat back gets you up higher. Finally, it allows the rider to turn the head from side to side when looking back to make lane changes.

Chinese food: This depends. There is an exception worthy of mentioning. For old timers, they will remember the typical old style Chop Suey type restaurant. Then in the late 1960's came a new wave of immigrants, first from Hong Kong and then from Taiwan but now from mainland China. All this plus Thai, Vietnamese, Korean barbecue and tofu thrown into the mix. Even sushi bars were not popular in the post WWII era until much later.

The old style Chop Suey joint had its distinct flavor. Most of it was catered to the Americans. And now it still does. Very few Chinese eat there but you will find Americans and even Japanese Americans going there. In Los Angeles, Little Tokyo, there was the Far East Cafe, chinese owned but a typical chop suey joint nonethelss.

Where I live, I can mention some that still serve this way, old style chop suey joint. By the way, sometimes I like to have pork chow mein (pan fried noodles).

I avoid slowtwitch like the plague. The shop owner (mine) views that site with a religious reverence that scares me. He wanted our site to look like that. I pointed out that we were not JUST a tri shop, and that "normal" people would suffer overload and stop looking at the site.

That said....
The shop owner knows next to nothing about bikes from a mechanical POV. He knows how to fit them and how to ride them. Fitting is pretty much all he does. His business partner is the mechanical, bike-lust guy. I'm the mechanic/sales/web design guy and token clydesdale.

The owner will fit anyone for anything. If they're looking at buying a bike from a competitor but want a fit from us, that's no problem. We just charge the customer rather than them getting the fit for free when they buy a bike. We don't put any pressure on people to buy a bike from us. We'd like them to, of course, but we don't hard-sell.

I think it works pretty well the way it is right now. I can see where it would be a problem if the store was pushy or if the fitter was also a mechanic, sales-person, or whatever. The shop owner, btw, ran a fitting-only business for several years before buying our shop. He has an extensive clientele from that which has helped us a lot. Plus, he was also one of the guys who started NIFS.

Ocean, American, Avenue, Noe Valley, Valencia , Box Dog, Mo Jo.

I walked into each shop and told the salesperson I was looking for a bike suitable for climbing hills in my San Francisco neighborhood. Each shop directed me to their hybrid section.

No price point indicated? Didn't ask for a hybrid? Your only interest is riding streets/paved paths/commuting kind of riding? Just curious why everyone would point you at a hybrid first.

Never liked Ocean, found them not helpful nor knowledgeable when I gave them a shot (used to live near there). I know the owners of American fairly well, my late roommate was a mechanic there, and still know several employees; I'm surprised they weren't more helpful (which of the American shops did you go into?). Avenue I've found fairly helpful except when they're too busy, pretty sure a friend of mine's girlfriend's family owns that one still, but haven't been in touch lately. Noe Valley I haven't checked out in a while but remember them as catering to the high end of things. Valencia isn't what it was, my old roommate and the former head mechanic at American both worked there in the good old days; last time I was in there I got a weird vibe and little knowledge (I would have pointed you across the street to Freewheel while there, though, Jeff and some of the other guys there are great). Box Dog I've only seen from the outside and heard a very little about but think they're more the hipster/fixie kind of place, but not sure; think MoJo is along the same lines.

At Mike's Bikes on Howard I know some of the guys and think they would have done right by you if given a chance. Henry (formerly of Valencia and American) at Citizen Chain in N.Beach is someone else I would have pointed you to. Roaring Mouse out on Irving is a good shop, too, but not sure they'd have the bike you're looking for.

bikinfool,

No, I did not ask for a hybrid. My only input was to say I wanted a bike suitable for climbing my neighborhood's hills. The salespeople at each shop pointed me to hybrids. Maybe it's because I am 45 years old ? I don't know. Two of the shops did ask me about price range, and I said "about $500 to $600".
The other shops salesperson's didn't ask price, just showed me the hybrid display and said I could test ride any bike I wanted to ride.
I appreciate your naming Mike's, Citizen, and Roaring. Some time in the future I will visit these shops too.
All in all the shopping experience for a bike was fine, and fun. The surprise was that no shop salesperson I met put a strong emphasis on fit. Before shopping I had spent some hours reading bike forums and "getting proper fit" was a dominant theme.