How do you spot a wal mart bike? most of the time you can tell by the cheap plastic gears, ... but what about the older Classic & Vintage wal mart junk? what years did wal mart, k mart plus all the others started selling **** bikes?

yesterday, before you were born.

Department stores have always sold junk bikes. You just need to know the names of the less desirable brands (there are exceptions though). Generally any road bike with a one-piece crank isn't worth much, (although some people do like the old Schwinns, despite the 1 piece crank).

The other issue, if you're thinking about buying bikes to resell, is you may want to add new bar wrap , cables, housing, tires, tubes, etc. to get top dollar, and all of that stuff adds up pretty quickly if you don't have access to it wholesale. Flipping bikes profitably is harder than it looks, especially since you'd be competing with people that do it just because they love working on bikes.

Some of the brands to steer clear of (YMMV, obviously) are:

Huffy (except the Serotta Huffys, which are very desirable)
Murray
Magna
Roadmaster
Free Spirit
Pacific
Motiv
Next
GMC Denali

etc.

I beg to differ. The Free Spirit bikes from SEARS - the 3-speeds - in the early to later half of the 1970's, were made by PUCH in Austria (or Japan later on). These were, and are, fine machines and well worth holding onto if you want a good 3spd. to cruise about town on.

wow i own a Gmc denali bike. Should i give up my love for riding just because the bike is a piece of crap?
I love how it rides and honestly don't really care what parts are on it. It has not failed me since i bought it at a garage sale.
yeah its cheap and and from a department store but a newb has got to start somewhere. so its cool if you dislike the cheap brands but i will not stop riding it just because you think that way. Later on I will definitely upgrade but as of now it's doing its job well done.

No, of course not. Plenty of people have ridden and are riding plenty of miles on ALL of those bikes.

The OP's question was not "Can I ride lots of miles on a department store bike", it was "how to avoid Wal-Mart bikes", which means he's trying to get a better understanding of what used bikes might be worth putting a little money into fixing up and restoring, either for his own use or to sell for a profit, and which ones to avoid, because they have a reputation for being less well-built and are worth less money.

Like I said in my first post, "there are exceptions" and "YMMV".

i saw "how to avoid wal-mart bikes" as in stay away they are no good. they did not even mention the fact of putting money into fixing it up and selling it later. at least not in their post. i just see them as regular road bikes that can keep up with the $1000+ bikes. to me thats fine

A neighbor of mine buys a K-Mart bike every year; every year it gets unrideable. He takes it in to be repaired. He's told that its beyond saving. He buys another K-Mart bike. If he had just invested in a GOOD bike some years ago he'd be ahead.

What about brands that make high-end bikes and also sell through the X-Marts? For example, I see Mongoose models advertised in the magazines for four figures; I also see Mongoose at K-Mart for $100.00 or less. What should one look for in a used Mongoose to tell what kind it is?

First of all you get hold of a good bike to take a ride on. Doesn't have to be top knotch- just respectable would do. Then you ride a Wally Mart bike.---You will be able to tell the difference.

That is exactly what happened to my neighbor who would call me after figuring out her LBS she was using were crooks. And she had a purple Huffy that weighed a country ton. I wanted to tell her that constantly throwing money at that thing was a bottomless-pit. But I bit my tongue. I wasn't charging her for my weekly calls to adjust the brakes or fix the tube that got a flat, etc. But I wished her friends there would loan her one of their bikes - which were LBS machines that didn't weigh in like an Elephant. And finally she did ride one of them. She was speechless afterwords.

I never got the weekly "My Huffy..." call again. Instead it was help installing their new VCR. Endless. Helpless little college-girls. Spoiled completely rotten! LOL!

Agreed. I was thinking the same thing when I read the list of "Department Store Bikes to Avoid".

In addition to the Free Spirit, other bikes sold by Sears were worthy. Sure, they might have been heavy bikes, but they were reliable and well made. I think yesterday's Sears did a good job of offering well-made reliable bicycles appropriate for the people that rode them.

What about coolness factor? One of my favorite collectible bicycles of all time are the old Sears Spaceliners circa 1963/64.

I have a hard time poo-pooing department store bicycles. More miles are ridden on department store bicycles than higher-end bicycles; not only collectively, but indvidually. My first commuter was an old Huffy three-speed that I bought used and rode about 8,500 miles every year. It never broke down and I sold it after riding it for more than ten years.

Perhaps even more than automobiles, the bicycle world has a strong elitist group that somehow feel superior by the bikes they own rather than the miles they ride.

Yep, except that my wife did it the other way, after some grumbling about the price, she instantly knew the difference after a few yards down the road, plus she tripled her riding distance on the first day.

I'm sure that Lance could win the tour on a GMC Denali! Yeah. We're all not in the tour, but we also need something that will work well and not fail or need constant tweeking and repair.

You have to admit that the quality is not there on these dept store things, but they cost less than a good saddle, so its to be expected. I don't flip bikes but would hate to have to eye up a good candidate. How can you justify giving even $10 for some bike that was once $100 new? Would you/could you get anything on it flipping it? How soon before you've spent more that it was worth new? So avoid them I guess, and try to identify them so you can. [I thought thats what the OP was about]

Is that what the OP's question means? In what language?

I think that has more to do with volume than quality. McDonalds outsells practically everyone in food service, but that's not because their food is good. That's not to say you can't find decent bikes, just that a lot of the models are crap.

This is absolutely true. When I was researching cargo bikes and more-or-less settled on the Mundo, I got some static on other forums bordering on "pfft, what a piece of junk", saying it's the equivalent of a $300 mountain bike, I'll be replacing all the parts in a year, and what the hell they're using high tensile steel for the frame, etc. Never mind that I'm pushing 2000 miles in less than a year on a $260 city/hybrid bike through all weather conditions and it's still going strong.

True, but the reality is that few, if any, bikes maintain much re-sale value. So you buy a $100 and sell it for $10. You are out $90. Buy a $900 and sell it for $300 (if you are lucky) and you are out $600. Yes, yes, I understand the difference in the value ratio...

Bikes are a great value in what they bring to the rider, but are a terrible investment from a resale value. When making a bicycle purchase decision, resale value should not be part of the decision making process.

Tell that to some of the sellers in Craigslist. It's ridiculous to see some ads with old beat up Apollos or Trek bikes going into the hundreds just because it has a "curve bar". I kid you not, that is the description of the drop handlebar of a roadie. I visited one ad where the stem had become one with the bike frame. Asking price was $250.

Read some of the OP's other posts elsewhere on this forum, and see if that context doesn't suggest that that was what he was looking for.

Again, I'm not trying to bag on department store bikes. Lots of people ride them, and lots of people get plenty of miles out of them.

But if you're looking for a used bike that's going to be reliable, reasonably light, and hold some semblance of value when you go to resell it, you're probably better off avoiding the bikes I listed above (with the exceptions that I and other posters have noted).

There is a HUGE difference in quality between most department store bikes and most bike shop bikes, and the difference in price when buying used can be pretty minimal, which is why it's worth knowing what to look for.

Indeed! Of course, asking for a certain price and actually selling for that price are two different things.

Naturally, true collectible bicycles are a totally different subject, but if you are willing to hold onto them for 50+ years, you might actually see some appreciation.

It can be quite amusing to see what people think of their old bikes. I have a long time friend that has an old Nishiki with a custom paint job. He probably hasn't put 10 miles on that bike in the last 5 years... keeps asking me what it is worth and whether he should sell it. I keep telling him the same thing... that he can't replace it for anywhere close to what he might sell it for, and even if he only rides it once a year, it is worth keeping. He always thinks this over, nods and agrees.

Bottom line is that unless it is some collectible rare bike, the it is more like a used toothbrush... once used, the value drops quickly.

BTW I once made a clear profit on a bike... bought it for a 6 pack, greased and adjusted it, rode it for a year, and then sold it for 2 6 packs.

Two six packs? Hundred percent profit ain't bad in any language.

I think DH bikes are worse. These bikes are bought to be jumped off steps, curbs, logs, empire state building, and barrel down Mt Rushmore. Yes I often see local ads of Kona Dawg, Norco VPS etc... asking for 80% of MSRP.

Getting back to the OP's question. Most reasonably recent department store bikes will probably have stamped steel brakes, and either Shimano's cheapest derailleurs or derailleur brands you have never heard of. Saddles may have a steel base pan. Also look at the frame welds as a lot look very bad. Rear dropouts will be stamped steel or aluminum. Cheap one piece cranksets may also be used. If aluminum 3 piece cranksets are used then look at the chain rings which may be not replaceable and are all steel.

With a little practice you can learn to spot the lowest end bikes pretty fast. In fact stop by Walmart and Target and take a look at their bikes to get an idea of what not to buy in the used market.

Nice set of criteria

I might just add that lots of cheap bikes use adapter claw hangers instead of those integral to the dropout.

Interestingly, and as someone who's worked in the engineering profession for 40 years, I can tell you that a purely visual inspection of a fillet weld, or butt weld, gives absolutely NO indication of its ultimate mechanical soundness (or lack thereof).

It's a common misconception that the roughly laid welds on cheaper bulk-store type bikes are inherently inferior structurally. Yes, of course a neatly laid fillet looks a lot "nicer" than a daggy irregular run with a bit of spatter visible, but it may be no more sound — and possibly even worse — than a rough looking weld on an el-cheapo bike.

I know a lot of the bike snobs here will jump on me for saying this. Doesn't worry me.

I'd be pleased to know why, exactly, stamped steel is considered a poor choice for dropouts.

Cheers.