Did I ever say that I participate in these sort of activities (drafting off of people I don't know)? Why are you attacking me personally? Additionally, the topic at hand is "drafting etiquette" not "wheel sucking at any speed etiquette." Not to mention that the concept of "good manners" is awfully subjective and the more important issue at hand is that nobody is in danger rather than somebody encroaching on your personal space bubble of r=1 meter.

At 20 mph, I sincerely doubt you'll be doing more than an occasional back and forth. Also, again with the ad hominem attack. Did you have a particularly bad day and feel the need to take it out on someone?

A legitimate draft is when you're actually within the pocket of space behind the bicyclist in front of you that has minimal air resistance. This pocket is very small, and if you're farther than a foot away wheel-to-wheel, you're not getting very much of the benefit of drafting. But I'll write your lack of knowledge here off due to inexperience.

You'll enjoy life much more if you're less uptight about things and more friendly to people in general. Not everyone cares, and not everyone realizes that some people care. Instead of getting auto-mad about it, why don't you just let the guy know politely that you'd like more space for you and your partner/buddy/self?

Will you feel a draft if you only have 2 people going about 17 mph? Me and my friend were just riding and it didn't seem like anything beneficial.
I was on a cruiser though.

I came upon a group that was at a similar pace to my own. I kept a distance, many were drafting each other. Mind you, they had blown through a stop sign at full speed, yet were pointing out small hazards on the road. It seemed to diminish my trust for them pointing things out if they completely missed a red octagonal sign universally known. So, bear that in mind when a stranger is pointing out hazards when you're drafting them. They may be missing more important things - your safety - your responsibility. That, and have a good ride. This is supposed to be fun!

Don't bet on it. I've been on rides where we were carrying on casual conversation at 24mph. And other rides where it was impossible at 10mph (climbing). It depends on the situation and strength of the riders.

I don't mind if folks want to draft, but I expect them to pull also, and I expect them to strike up a conversation first and ask. It's not ok to jump on the wheel and assume the person in front is ok with it. Folks that do that should not expect to have obstacles pointed out or signals of any sort. Jumping on without permission is rude, whether you agree or not.

+1

Rowan and I were riding along the Great Ocean Road ... gorgeous day, beautiful scenery ... a few months ago, when all of a sudden I picked up a tail. This guy stuck to my butt like glue for kilometer after kilometer. I tried pulling way over so he could pass. I tired slowing down even slower than I was already riding. Rowan and I rode side by side and chatted, trying to make it clear we were a couple who wanted to ride together. But I couldn't shake him, and I couldn't talk to him because he would not come up beside me and the traffic was too heavy to hear if I tried to shout back to him. It puzzled me why he stayed back there given that my flat ground speed was about 18 km/h and my uphill speed was about 8 km/h. Surely he would have been faster riding alone.

Riding with your spouse can be very romantic. Rowan and I rode a century during the early part of the day of our wedding. It was our wedding century, to celebrate the fact that we met on a long ride and got to know each other on subsequent long rides. We finished the century about 4 pm and then got married. It was a lovely memorable day ... but if a stranger had come along and tried to ride with us, that would have likely detracted from the day.

Yeah, you're nitpicking the definition of drafting and what this thread is about and I am the one who's uptight.
You obviously don't get it...hopefully someday you will.

Yep, riding a bike isn't always about training or competing...sometimes you just want to spend some quality time together without having to deal with wannabe racers who think they need to suck wheel to maintain their blistering 12mph pace.

GEEZ. Does everyone on this site have ADHD or something? Poster gives a specific situation and they get on a tangent like husband-wife rides, centuries, etc.

As long as you cough or clear your throat or something that makes your presence known, you are more than likely OK. If you say "hey, can I hang on here for a while?" is fine. Going 3 miles on a ride doesn't require you to 'pull' especially if you are uncomortable doing so.
The lead guy does 15% to 20% more work than the 2nd guy. The third guy does 10% less than the 2nd guy. (in general from TT times)

If you can help, then sit in, get your HR down, then pull through. You've got to know when to pull and more importantly when to pull off and stop.
Saying "hey, mind if I hang on back here for a few miles?"

NOBODY would mind under that scenerio. There is a practical solution to YOUR SPECIFIC SITUATION.
Thank you for asking the question, you are obviously in tune with the sport and want to do the right thing. Thank you for that. It's the little nuances that you learn that will help you have a more satisfying experience.

Hi! Welcome to BikeForums! You'll get used to it after a while.

How is trying to stay on topic "nitpicking the definition of drafting"? I also like how you're ignoring every single other counterpoint.

Seriously, some of you guys need to relax and realize that most people aren't intending to infringe upon your sacred holy bubble of personal space. All it takes is a "Ahem, I'd appreciate if you didn't draft off of me," and most reasonable people will say something along the lines of "My bad" and back off. Getting all offended and angry about it just makes your day worse and turns you passive aggressive on the road and trail.

I find it interesting how many people these days like to be near other people. This drafting thing is one example. You can see another example in a cafe or similar. You choose a table away from everyone ... and next thing you know, someone is sitting at the table right next to you, rather than choosing any number of other empty tables in the place. Or camping ... you set up a tent at the far end of the campground away from everyone else, and the next thing you know, someone else is setting up a tent right beside yours despite the fact that there are numerous other perfectly good choices some distance away.

It's almost as though the respect for other people's personal space is diminishing.

I have a theory that it has something to do with the daycare generation. When kids are put into daycare centres at a very early age, they learn to do everything in groups ... the group is the norm. And when they grow up, they feel uncomfortable being by themselves.

We shouldn't have to be put into the situation where we have to tell a wheel sucker to go away. Wheel suckers should respect other cyclists' right to ride their own ride. The onus should be on the wheel sucker to introduce him/herself and to ask whether or not it is OK to be there.

But sitting at a table isn't technically drafting.

Maybe it is where I ride but it has never happened to me that someone comes up behind me and just sits there without talking to me. I'd find it rude if you where behind me for a few km without saying anything. I'd either slow down and make you pass or try and drop you. I ride out in the country so mayne this is the reason why. Or is because we are Canadians?

Does this wheel sucking with no talking/helping happen on MUP or something? are you passing hundreds of cyclists a day or just a few? If hundreds I could see the no convo, but if you out there and see 10 riders over a period of 5 hours then I would be ticked if someone came up behind me on a rural rode and said nothing.

As with most interactions, common curtesies usually work for most people. If you join a group, politely ask if they mind if you join, but be prepared to hear a polite no. If someone joins you unexpectedly, politely tell them you prefer that they not ride along. It really should not be more difficult than that.

I've passed riders with a friendly hello but get no reponse or a look of death. The the dope wants to take my wheel. These guys bug me. Riders that are descent enough to return my greet can ride my wheel all day.

you'd think...but some people just can't take a hint, no matter how nice you try to be.

I've had hundreds of riders draft me. The 2 times I asked them to back off for good reasons, they got pretty nasty. My wife was bruised up pretty badly from her bike accident. A dude took her wheel as we rolled by so I explained the situation and asked him to back off. He got nasty and refused so I eventually had to tell him to get the F off her wheel.

I just might move to FL where the riders drop off then say "My bad"!

If you had been in Florida, the guy would have told you that he wasn't technically drafting and that you should just lighten up.

I had one guy actually cut off Cheri to jump on my wheel...then kept blocking her from passing him - at least till his wheel touched mine and he fell down and went boom...I had to check my brakes and didn't realize that he was too busy looking back at her to notice.

This used to annoy me and then I got over it.
Nowadays I will either look back, make eye contact, and keep pulling the other guy. If I am not in a mood to be around other folks I will sit up, slow down, and maybe wave at the other rider to go ahead. I have better things to get stressed over.
As for me, I prefer to pace other riders I do not know instead of drafting. I would rather draft off riders I know and trust.

Maybe some good faked flatulence noise will get the guy off your wheel. Who wants to have his face behind your ass if he knows he's in for a smelly ride?

You're not understanding cultural and societal relativism. In many societies worldwide, the concept of "personal space" doesn't even exist. There just isn't any room for it. Again, you guys are, for some reason, making the assumption that people that "invade" your arbitrarily defined personal space are personally trying to rain on your parade. How are other people supposed to know what your personal space radius is? How are people supposed to understand your personal space requirement if they weren't raised on the same ideas as you? Seriously, you guys are getting twisted out of shape on things that are extremely personal and arbitrary issues.

In reference to the Mr. Beanz mentioning a guy refusing to get off of their wife's wheel, I can't understand why he got nasty. That would be like you visiting another country and not realizing you were doing something offensive and getting nasty when someone informs you. Basically, it sounds like the guy was just a dick in general.

Again, giving people "hints" is passive aggressive. Just tell them to get off.

Chipcom, I really don't understand why, but you seem to be particularly frustrated by my different opinion on the matter and are being awfully callow toward me in this thread. You didn't even address the counterpoints I made to your response earlier. The fact is that the posts I replied to were attempting to use the term "drafting" in a specific manner. You argued the point and I responded accordingly. You haven't responded to my last rebuttal and are now proceeding to attack me indirectly through your replies to other people. Classy.

Edit: And once again, I never said that I would personally do this. In fact, I already said that it should not be done because it is dangerous. I'm with DataJunkie in that I only draft off of riders I know/trust.

After the first attempt at politeness, I say all bets are off at that point.

I suspect that part of the problem is that you take words a bit too literally. Just telling someone to get off IS a hint.
Yes, I am making fun of you...because you still obviously don't get it so I see no sense in trying to seriously engage and prefer to entertain...at your expense. Don't take it too seriously or personally.

It's the internet; not saying things literally is detrimental to having people actually understand you.

I'm pretty sure I hit the nail on the head that you're approaching this from a severely personal view without taking into account the fact that other people have different ideas, opinions, and beliefs. That's fairly analogous to a fanatic religious person telling someone that they're inherently evil for not believing in a god. I think the pot is calling the kettle black here.

Trust me. Life is much more enjoyable with an open mind.

Perhaps you have not read the entire thread...specifically my initial response? The only point that I have been trying to make since is that it is sometimes rude to intrude on other people's space uninvited...something that you don't seem to comprehend.

Yeah, perhaps I forgot that this is General Cycling, where I have to treat people with kid-gloves, unlike the more no-holds-barred forums like P&R or A&S, or that perhaps you haven't been around long enough to realize that my style is more bark than bite. If you are offended, my apologies...but it does not change the fact that it is plain downright rude to butt into someone's personal space uninvited.