Rant - avoid if you don't want to read about me venting
12-01-11, 08:59 PM
#26
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Nah, I think the OP had a buyer try to take advantage of him after he'd done the buyer a favor. Like you've already put that much into the sale, are you going to walk away now, or are you going to let me screw you. Buyer deserved a nice big bag of flaming dog crap on his doorstep. Or a call in to the cops about child porn on his computer.
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Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
12-01-11, 09:25 PM
#27
Full Member
There's no such thing as "firm price" for an item that has not been personally inspected by the prospective buyer, regardless of what was agreed before. The only case when something like that is possible is when the item is sold in brand new, factory sealed package. In any other case, it is perfectly reasonable that the buyer can change his/her mind if the item does not meet their expectations when they see it in person. This is always assumed by the seller. When you agree to deliver the item to the buyer (so that they will see it for the very first time) you are automatically assuming the risk that the buyer will refuse to buy the item and/or might start to negotiate about the price.
That's how it works in normal cultured civilized human society. If the above happens to apply the OP's case (I don't know if it does), then the OP has only himself to blame and the buyer is not at fault here at all.
The same applies to the aforementioned case with the Audi mirror. Any pre-negotiated price for such an item automatically assumes a nearly flawless part. If the mirror happened to be less than flawless (scratches, chips, faded paint etc.) then the re-negotiation of the price is absolutely required, period. In fact, the common courtesy in such cases is for the seller to offer the buyer a lower price.
That's how it works in normal cultured civilized human society. If the above happens to apply the OP's case (I don't know if it does), then the OP has only himself to blame and the buyer is not at fault here at all.
The same applies to the aforementioned case with the Audi mirror. Any pre-negotiated price for such an item automatically assumes a nearly flawless part. If the mirror happened to be less than flawless (scratches, chips, faded paint etc.) then the re-negotiation of the price is absolutely required, period. In fact, the common courtesy in such cases is for the seller to offer the buyer a lower price.
Last edited by AndreyT; 12-02-11 at 12:32 AM.
12-02-11, 01:05 AM
#28
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Your argument assumes an awful lot - inspection, condition of the item, that total satisfaction (an immeasurable thing) is part of the deal, etc. What you fail to recognize is that the terms of "our" deal had already been negotiated and agreed upon. There were no contingencies or conditions under which renegotiation of the price was acceptable - that had been discussed prior to me driving to deliver the item and accept payment. Add to that the total waste of my time , as well as that of the 3rd party (the other CL deal person) and the gas expense, well.. no point in rehashing what I've already said. You either see the point or you don't.
In your world, it seems, BLACK may actually be any shade of GRAY - depending upon the time of day, season, whether the participants had sex last night, whatever - even if it's actually GREEN.
12-02-11, 02:11 AM
#29
Full Member
Your terms were negotiated for a certain item (say, a bike). And then let's say you (the seller) turn up at the buyer's place with a completely different item (a jar of peanut butter, for example), claiming that this is the item you were negotiating about. ("We always used the word 'bike' to refer to peanut butter in our family."). Would you expect them to honor the deal?
In this weird example I'm exaggerating a lot, of course, just to get my point across. The buyer might come to conclusion that your original description of the item in question (which the buyer didn't have a chance to see yet) doesn't match what you actually brought with you. The buyer might decide that the used bike you brought is in significantly worse condition that you said it was.
(Maybe right now that guy is ranting on some other forum about someone who tried to dupe him into buying a piece of rusty junk or something similar through "pre-negotiating" the price.)
Of course, in cases like that I would expect the buyer to express their concerns, instead of flat out refusing to follows the terms of the deal without offering any explanation. BTW, did they offer any explanation in your case?
In this weird example I'm exaggerating a lot, of course, just to get my point across. The buyer might come to conclusion that your original description of the item in question (which the buyer didn't have a chance to see yet) doesn't match what you actually brought with you. The buyer might decide that the used bike you brought is in significantly worse condition that you said it was.
(Maybe right now that guy is ranting on some other forum about someone who tried to dupe him into buying a piece of rusty junk or something similar through "pre-negotiating" the price.)
Of course, in cases like that I would expect the buyer to express their concerns, instead of flat out refusing to follows the terms of the deal without offering any explanation. BTW, did they offer any explanation in your case?
12-02-11, 07:40 AM
#30
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The same applies to the aforementioned case with the Audi mirror. Any pre-negotiated price for such an item automatically assumes a nearly flawless part. If the mirror happened to be less than flawless (scratches, chips, faded paint etc.) then the re-negotiation of the price is absolutely required, period. In fact, the common courtesy in such cases is for the seller to offer the buyer a lower price.
Last edited by Snydermann; 12-02-11 at 07:48 AM.
12-02-11, 08:34 AM
#31
Banned
If I was going to drive 300 miles to deliver an item on the pretense of selling it, I'd be making a trip out of it with other agendas being planned, as in shopping, sight seeing, visiting friends, etc.. There's no way that I'd be willing to dead head 600 miles, especially after seeing a few unscrupulous persons plying their negotiating skills over the years.
12-02-11, 09:49 AM
#32
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I agree, but the world doesn't always work that way. The reality is that it's never over till it's all-the-way over. I used to tell the guys in my shop "The bike's not sold until the money's in the drawer and the bike's out the door."
12-02-11, 09:58 AM
#33
The Left Coast, USA
To me, re-negotiating at the point of sale and exchange is extremely tacky and ill-advised.
I was once attempting to sell an iPod nano to a dude. I think I was asking $100, dude showed up with $90. When I refused his 'offer' of $90, he got irate and started to say things like, "You're going to throw away this sale over $10?" I told him that it was a matter of pride at that point and walked away. Sold it the next day for $100 to someone else.
To this day, I have never catered to any buyer. A dude last week asked me to deliver item to him (even though it was maybe 3.5 miles from where I live.) Nope. No way. You can drive/bike/walk over here if you want it bad enough.
I was once attempting to sell an iPod nano to a dude. I think I was asking $100, dude showed up with $90. When I refused his 'offer' of $90, he got irate and started to say things like, "You're going to throw away this sale over $10?" I told him that it was a matter of pride at that point and walked away. Sold it the next day for $100 to someone else.
To this day, I have never catered to any buyer. A dude last week asked me to deliver item to him (even though it was maybe 3.5 miles from where I live.) Nope. No way. You can drive/bike/walk over here if you want it bad enough.
12-02-11, 11:53 AM
#34
Full Member
Exactly! Business is business. And one of the basic axioms of business is if the deal turns out to be "not as advertised", then the deal is off. It is not really something that can be debated.
12-03-11, 09:06 AM
#35
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Just got back from driving 300+ miles round-trip involving a failed Craigslist sale. It was my item for sale. I'd listed it as "$xxx firm" and exchanged emails with the buyer confirming that. Not only did I not request any gas money for the "delivery", I'd gone out of my way to accomodate his schedule.
Got to the buyer's place and he tried to renegotiate immediately, at a 20% lower price than I'd listed. I had printed out all our emails, as is my normal way of ensuring my memory is "correct". Showed him his own words and he just grins and says, "Well, what do you want to do now? $xxx is my offer" (again, the same lowball offer).
It was all I could do not to punch him in the face, something I haven't done to anyone in nearly 35 years.
I need a drink - another thing I havent done in 30 years.
Got to the buyer's place and he tried to renegotiate immediately, at a 20% lower price than I'd listed. I had printed out all our emails, as is my normal way of ensuring my memory is "correct". Showed him his own words and he just grins and says, "Well, what do you want to do now? $xxx is my offer" (again, the same lowball offer).
It was all I could do not to punch him in the face, something I haven't done to anyone in nearly 35 years.
I need a drink - another thing I havent done in 30 years.
12-09-11, 03:41 PM
#37
holyrollin'
I'm glad to hear that the OP didn't cave to the buyer's dirty trick. There will be another buyer who's willing to stick to his word.
My take on the original situation: even among honorable people renegotiation after an agreement has been reached is IMHO insulting and pointless. Two options only at that point, those being BUY AT AGREED-TO TERMS or DO NOT BUY.
On the other hand if a seller delivers an item that is misrepresented, I have no obligation to buy, and he has no obligation to listen to a halfass counteroffer.
My take on the original situation: even among honorable people renegotiation after an agreement has been reached is IMHO insulting and pointless. Two options only at that point, those being BUY AT AGREED-TO TERMS or DO NOT BUY.
On the other hand if a seller delivers an item that is misrepresented, I have no obligation to buy, and he has no obligation to listen to a halfass counteroffer.
Last edited by FlatTop; 12-09-11 at 03:46 PM.
12-09-11, 11:58 PM
#38
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There's no such thing as "firm price" for an item that has not been personally inspected by the prospective buyer, regardless of what was agreed before. The only case when something like that is possible is when the item is sold in brand new, factory sealed package. In any other case, it is perfectly reasonable that the buyer can change his/her mind if the item does not meet their expectations when they see it in person. This is always assumed by the seller. When you agree to deliver the item to the buyer (so that they will see it for the very first time) you are automatically assuming the risk that the buyer will refuse to buy the item and/or might start to negotiate about the price.
That's how it works in normal cultured civilized human society. If the above happens to apply the OP's case (I don't know if it does), then the OP has only himself to blame and the buyer is not at fault here at all.
The same applies to the aforementioned case with the Audi mirror. Any pre-negotiated price for such an item automatically assumes a nearly flawless part. If the mirror happened to be less than flawless (scratches, chips, faded paint etc.) then the re-negotiation of the price is absolutely required, period. In fact, the common courtesy in such cases is for the seller to offer the buyer a lower price.
That's how it works in normal cultured civilized human society. If the above happens to apply the OP's case (I don't know if it does), then the OP has only himself to blame and the buyer is not at fault here at all.
The same applies to the aforementioned case with the Audi mirror. Any pre-negotiated price for such an item automatically assumes a nearly flawless part. If the mirror happened to be less than flawless (scratches, chips, faded paint etc.) then the re-negotiation of the price is absolutely required, period. In fact, the common courtesy in such cases is for the seller to offer the buyer a lower price.
Firm means firm. The only out is lack of disclosure by the seller; if a 'material' portion of the deal is affected, THEN you have a case for re-negotiation.
If you meet up to consummate the deal, and you're just not happy, you have a choice: A.) buy it anyway; or B.) walk away.
Audi-mirror-guy would have been able to see the reflection of his own hemorrhoids, had it been mine........
There is NO assumption of a 'nearly flawless part'; it's USED stuff, FFS!
I hope they re-air that episode of "Fringe", so you can get BACK to your world....
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