Digital_Cowboy

Or even any of the various mobility devices. Most of which have much wider tires than one will find on most bikes.

drmweaver2

"Push chair"? Wheelchair? If so, there's a handicapped access legal issue involved. Not the same as refusing to allow bikes inside a store.

Taking a bike inside any store is something that simply wouldn't occur to me - except at a bike shop. Just the way I was raised. If I forgot a lock on a ride and want to stop, I just suck it up and go without/don't stop/ask a trusted friend to watch the bike while I go inside. I certainly wouldn't hold it against a business that says "don't bring your bike inside" so long as the person/sign delivering that message was not rude about it - but rudeness isn't the issue being raised in the thread.

contango 

There are handicapped accessibility issues enshrined in law that says provision must be made for a wheelchair although as you quite rightly say there is no legal requirement to allow someone to take a bike into a business. That said if a business can't cope with a bike it's hard to see how they would cope with a wheelchair so the argument of a lack of space doesn't really work all that well.

So it comes back to a question of whether the business owner wants a cyclist's business or not.

SlimRider

Wheelchairs are vehicles of necessity and are given precedence to bicycles, or recreational vehicles, as mandated by law.

JacktheFlash

I have taken my bike into several businesses. Some had no problem, some asked me to leave it outside so I went elsewhere. A quality lock works also. I see a non-issue here.

DCB0

Another strategy is to call it 'my bike.' If everywhere you go you announce you have your '$8000 bike' with you, you will tend to make the bike more likely to be stolen.

And, as the old saying goes, if you can afford to by an $8000 bike, you can afford to buy two $8000 bikes.

njkayaker

Care to explain why your convenience is more important than other peoples?
How many bikes should they allow? Only yours? Only one? Any number?
If there was an emergency, how would having your bike in the way help?



You can't be serious!

njkayaker

You are comparing a wheelchair (or whatever) that somebody has to use to move with a bicycle?

In the US, such things either are medical devices or it's not clear to the business owner that it is or isn't a medical device.
Anyway, in the US, people with disabilities are given legal slack. Even still, it might be reasonable to treat them differently than selfish people with bicycles.

Really?

njkayaker

This is dumb.

The difference is that accommodating a wheelchair is unavoidable.

No it's a question of dopey/selfish cyclists wanting to be indulged.

How many bicycles should the business allow? Just yours? Just the expensive ones? Everybody's in a group?

What if there's an emergency?

It's a hazard and a nuisance to other people. And in the US, possibly, a legal liability too.

njkayaker

Baby stroller in England (it appears).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_transport

I might consider doing it (asking to bring my bike in) in certain cases.

curdog

Sure glad I caught this topic. Can't believe the business owner didn't provide space inside for bikes (sarcasm). Bikes are routinely shunned in areas where they belong, such as roads. Can't believe people might get annoyed at bikes being parked beside their tables while they eat lunch. What a topic!
This couldn't be a reason for people to be annoyed with bikers in general (more sarcasm). It's your responsibility to keep your bike secure. No one owes you assistance.

Mr. Beanz

Yeah, you missed something.

DCB0

I drive an $8000 car, and I lost the key to the door locks, so when I go into a shop I open both double doors and stick the nose of my car in so I can see it at all times. How DARE the proprieter of the shop take offence to that!!!!???!!??

ljsense

I have no idea why this is an issue. Whenever I hit up a restaurant when I'm out with my bike, it's to do one thing and one thing only: lay down a giant deuce. So I pop my mountain bike up on its rear wheel, barge through the doors by pushing them open with my camelback, then swing around to present the reared-up bike in all its glory. I shout: "Make way for a Willy!" in a fake Scottish accent to see if anyone will get the hilarious Simpsons reference, then I roll that thing into a stall and get to work. It's just a fact of life for me that spinning the crank backwards and getting the "angry bees" of my Chris King freehub going help me to relax and build my own a brown island. I shout "Peace!" on my way out, and if anyone has a problem with it, they're obviously a dick, a roadie or whatever.

contango 

Wrap it up any way you want, if a business doesn't want to cater to cyclists (and I think I've made it clear I believe that to be a matter for the business to decide) then they may lose cyclists' business.

If there's space for a wheelchair there's space for a bicycle. If we're asking how many bicycles the business should accommodate we can just as easily ask how many wheelchairs it can accommodate. Ultimately a business runs out of space whether we're talking about bicycles, wheelchairs or simply too many people walking in.

Whether it's a hazard or a nuisance depends on how much space is available and how much of that space the bicycle takes up. Which goes back to the business owner making a decision whether to allow it or not, and the business owner getting to accept the potential gain or loss of business resulting from their decision.

contango 

A pushchair is like a chair with wheels on it for children. You American folks probably call it a stroller? For good measure there are also prams that usually take up even more space.

njkayaker

It doesn't seem that there would be so many selfish cyclists that it would be worth inconveniencing their other customers or losing the business of those other customers.



Too bizarre!

Accommodating wheelchairs (in the US) is a legal obligation.

How many people in wheelchairs are there were you live?

No, it depends on more than that.



The business gained from accommodating a few selfish cyclists would not offset the loss of business inconveniencing many more people.

While you are clearly free not to do business at any particular place, the business is likely glad that he doesn't have to deal with you!

Retro Grouch 

I see very few people bringing bikes into business establishments so I'd say the custom is to leave them outside. If there is so little room that other customers are bumping into your bike and having trouble moving around, I'd frown too.

While the owner may well value your business, he equally values the business of his other customers who were inconvenienced too. Sometimes, when you operate a business, it's not possible to make everybody happy so you just have to do the best that you can.

ljsense

The more I think about it, the more this thread cuts to the soul of MTB biking for me. I mean, just step inside my shoes: three pork and tatertot burritos, a growler of double IPA and some Wednesday weed are going to give you some important stuff to do the next day after you ride a clockwise B-Loop around Cam-Rock forest. What does society really want from me at this point? I'm supposed to find some property line garden shed and kickstart a compost pile on some guys lawn? No, that's why they put toilets in restaurants and make stalls big enough to cram a bike in there. Simple as that: design for use.

njkayaker

Sometimes, the better strategy is to have a simple rule (e.g., "no bicycles") than it would to have to argue with people about expensive bikes or how many are reasonable to allow or whatever crap selfish customers would argue about!

You can't please everybody. So, choose to displease those rare people who are especially difficult!

njkayaker

It's Friday. You are still buzzed!

contango 

Which is the decision of the business owner, as I think I've made quite clear.

Accommodating wheelchairs is a legal obligation, I'm sure. But even so a business can only cope with so many wheelchairs. I've seen a few businesses in the US where a single wheelchair would take up a significant amount of their floorspace. I've been to places in the UK with a friend who uses a wheelchair and not had a lot of space to get her to a table.

Maybe more than that but it's pretty obvious that the kind of place where you stand at a counter while your food is prepared and then leave with it could struggle to accommodate a single bike while a huge eating area with lots of space between the tables could easily accommodate a bike at every table.

So you're back to assuming you know better than the business owner whether accommodating cyclist is a good thing or not? I'd have thought the owner of the business should get to make that call, as I think I've said a few times now. It seems like a pretty simple thing for them to do - either don't allow them at all, allow them outside peak times, or allow them at any time. I guess the individual business knows best what it wants to do for its own clientele, no?

CraigB

I agree. If it isn't welcome, so what? It's the shop owner's prerogative. Actually, the only kind of business that comes to mind as the sort that would have no problem with bringing your bike in is a bike shop. In any case, I would operate under the assumption that the bike is not welcome unless I'm told otherwise.

If I haven't planned ahead and brought a lock, or already scoped the place out as having secure storage (even if that's just an outside rack), I don't stop there. I don't expect the shop owner or their other customers to accommodate my last-minute security needs. I asked ahead of time at the place that hosts the Weight Watchers meetings I attend to see if I could bring my bike in so I could ride to the meetings. They were very nice about it, and told me the two or three places I could leave it that were safe. If they had said no, it wouldn't have angered me. I just wouldn't have ridden to the meetings.

CraigB

Uh, let's see...

No.

No.

And, um...no.

njkayaker

So what?

It's not clear that allowing completely-unnecessary bicycles in those situations is going to help any. And, really, how many wheelchairs at a time are they really going to have to deal with?

It's bizarre that you are equating wheelchairs with bicycles!

The place the OP was complaining about does not appear to be anything like the second thing you are describing. And you are making assumptions that it's only the amount of space that matters. (I'm not objecting to businesses that allow bicycles.)

Huh? I don't care whether the business accommodates cyclists or not.

I'm pointing out that whinging about businesses not accommodating cyclists is asinine!

Those whiny, selfish nut-jobs are assuming that their business is significant. I'm countering that it just might not be!

Yes, they can do whatever they think is reasonable. And I don't assume that they are wrong (like the OP and you) for not allowing bicycles in.

Nothing that contradicts this.

It's also easy (or should be) for the cyclist do deal with it without getting into a tizzy about it (like the OP did).