I'm a bit exasperated with my Sturmey Archer 5 speeds and am curious about the two versions of the SRAM hub that seem to garner almost no attention whatsoever, the 'Cargo' and wider-range version.

The Sturmey hubs have changed over the years so I don't know to which model the efficiency chart I saw pertained which listed gears 1 and 5 as being in the 80s. I have several instances of the ball-locking type and they have irregular efficiency issues in the middle gears too.

I think I've read that the SRAM 5 speeds are popular in parts of Europe, and that the mechanism is very different from the SA hubs, presumably resulting in greater efficiency. The downside is that they're heavier.

Any advocates of the P5 here?

I have A Sachs Pentasport (P5) that was on a bike thrown out in Germany in 2000 or 2001. It is the two cable model with coaster brake. I much prefer the Sachs/SRAM Spectro S7 with Coaster brake that I have been using for commuting and shopping for over a decade. It feels much smother and does have the extra gears with no disadvantage.

I wouldn't pay much attention to theoretical "efficiency" charts, the proof is in the riding in an all up bicycle.

I had very good luck in the past with S-A S5 two cable hubs, the first version of S-A five speed hubs. Used one for almost 25 years without a problem. You might want to look around and see it any are available in your area. If you are handy, the S-5 internals will fit perfectly in any S-A AW three speed shell.

Pictured is my dumpster Sachs (SRAM) 5 speed dumpster find.

I think those were made when the production [Sachs] was in Germany, after the take over,
SRAM moved everything to Taiwan.

I dont see that in the catalog now. so auctions and dumpster scores are what you have ..

Mine are German made. SRAM IGH production remained in Germany for about a decade after the takeover from Sachs before going offshore to the Orient.

It's very much perceptible, the weird thing is the problems I have in gears where one wouldn't expect any. For instance, having stripped and serviced my x-rf5 for the umpteenth time, swapped some internals from a spare, improved it's overall performance by paying attention to subtleties of adjustment, I find there's some grindiness in 3rd gear. I could live with it if it were just the extreme gears that weren't up to par.

The Sram P5 is no longer in production. Whatever parts you can find are what's left since the hub was discontinued. It's a shame because I prefer the 5 speed over the heavier 8 speed hubs. I prefer the Sturmey Archer 5 speed over the Nexus 7. Having said that, I'm doing all my riding on a 3 speed at the moment so my taste for more gears decreased over time. ;-)

It's still available to buy, though quite expensive.

I've been looking into the logistics of running an S-RF5 on oil and I'd be curious to see if there was any perceptible efficiency increase. The problem is that there's no lip on the ball ring to keep oil inside; I've read some reports of it leaking straight out and others that claim it's fine. The Sturmey grease seems to work well, though whilst it stays on the pinions it migrates from other areas eventually. . . I find the Sturmey hubs tend to start rattling about a year after I've serviced & greased them and I assume it's because there are areas where the grease has been forced out.

I live quite well with my Sachs Spectro 7 without doing any adjustments or swapping of internals, and have had it serviced only once in the 12 years and 60,000 miles of year round all weather use. Rode the S-A S-5 for 20 years with no swapping of internals or adjustments. Never, ever, ever had to any adjustments on a S-A AW 3 speed. The Sachs PentaSport 5 speed I have doesn't get much use since I prefer the bikes that have the other hubs.