That is not even remotely the case, and any professional mechanic I've ever known will argue against what you said as well. My longest lasting tools are still around after 42 years of use were all made in America, while tools I bought recently and going back 20 years ago made in other countries have all been replaced many times over. I have a set of made in the USA open end box wrenches that were made at least 60 years ago and were used a lot still are in fine shape, while newer ones I got for the metric world made in Taiwan I had to replace with others made in China which have gotten replaced due to wearing out or breaking.

I've had wonderful luck with my Trek's. Nice bikes.. right down to the 7200wsd that my significant other rides. It does the job.

They've performed true to their specs and if there was a problem it was due to human failure on my part as a rider.

Key is to have the bike fit for you so when your out there riding you don't even notice the bike beneath you. On Trek's I've reached the point of "ZEN" where I forget the bike is beneath me and all my attention goes outwards towards my surroundings. This doesn't include that incident 30 years ago while working as a messenger I got doored and flew through the air headfirst into a horses ass.

Post office send packages from Vermont to Los Angeles in 3 days. I use them all the time.

. Prices being what they are these days, I don't care where it's made. I just want the best I can afford.

True racing bikes are built in Italy, unless the are built by Belgians. This is the basis of "Why people hate Trek". & the same reason the French hated Armstrong winning their race. He/Trek are American. It just isn't right to have American influence in Cycling. It'd be like having a French NFL team winning the Super Bowl 7 years straight.
I don't have anything bad to say about Trek or Mr Armstrong. Trek makes a nice frame. It just doesn't sit right with the ways of the force to be wielding a lightsaber designed or built by a droid.

Lots of people do, but the fact is they don't have the volume to fund their operations as currently run. There are tons of ways you can send packages from coast to coast in that period, so that market is very fragmented. They relied on third-class "junk mail" for the bulk of their revenues in recent years and more people are opting out of that and/or companies are turning to e-mail marketing to reduce costs.

At about 10 times the cost. There is more than one reason they lose money. #1 . Govt run

My Belgian race bike was built by Taiwanese.

But designed by....?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but being as I am only 25 and I was bout 15 when I had these, I don't think they compare.

M.

OK, I understand where your coming from now. I just had another discussion on another forum about this. I'm 60 years old, I remember in the early 70's reading Consumer Reports and the average life expectancy of a major appliance was 23 years (my wife and I bought Maytag washer and dryer that lasted 30 years), TV's were 25 years (my in-laws had a TV that lasted about 35 years!); today Consumer Reports says the average life expectancy of a major appliance is 13 years and TV's are just 8! Our whole world has gone from durability to crap so that the manufactures and the world economy can keep spinning by taking money out of our pockets faster.

Appliances have the issue of much smaller motors to save energy and it's these smaller motors that aren't lasting, it's the reason we bought a Kirby vacuum cleaner because in a 10 year period we went through 3 vacuum cleaners, this Kirby is now 10 years old and still running strong but they use the biggest motor in the industry too. Today in order to get good long lasting appliances you have to commercial rated equipment...very few can afford that. Tools, the only good tools now are found from SnapOn, Matco, Mac, and Cornwell, but these are very expensive tools so the rest of us have to buy the crap from retail stores that are now all made in China and break like crazy. I've done, and doing, something a bit odd, I have and will slowly switch all my chrome sockets to air impact strength sockets as my chrome ones break or wear out, why? Because it will be much harder to break an impact strength socket! And since their all made in China with similar qualities I will buy them from Harbor Freight since they are the cheapest and they have lifetime no hassle or recept needed warranty.

I also keep my eyes open for tools in garage and estate sales that have been made 40 or more years ago because I know they will last. That set of 60 year old plus box wrenches I mentioned, those things weigh about twice as much as my set of Taiwan then replaced with China made metric box wrenches, and are darn close to the same thickness, which I can only conclude that the metal on the older set is denser. The 60 year old set is in great shape but the Metric set's teeth are wearing out already.

All I can say is you must not ship stuff very much. Both UPS and FedEx have acquired a number of companies over the years that have expanded their offerings and they now match every offering the USPS has, with the possible exception of Priority Mail Flat Rate, which is a good option for some. But I've shipped lots of stuff via UPS and FedEx and they're very competitive.

Secondly, the USPS is not government run. They're a government corporation, which means they have an independent board, but their executive is appointed by the feds and they must get approval for increases in first-class postage. That's it and that's only because they're mandated by the government to provide first-class mail service to every residence in the country. Every other rate they charge and everything else they do is done independently by their board. As a govt. corporation, they also have the ability to issue tax-free debt, which a corporation does not have. That's an enormous advantage.

There's an easy way for the USPS to get rid of their budget problems and that's to stop offering door-to-door service in rural areas. If people choose to live long distances from a Post Office, they should foot their own cost of mail retrieval. That's a classic case of taxpayers in high-density areas subsidizing those who live in low-density/rural settings.

That's how bought my first road bike two months ago...I bought it from who I think was the most informative and did not up sell me based on what I told them what I was going to use it for. Brand wasn't an issue because I've been told there are tons of good ones out there (ended up buying a Specialized).

As for the original topic of this thread, I don't hate Trek or any other brands for that matter. The only reason why I didn't select Trek is because 1.) it was more expensive than I was willing to spend and 2.) the LBS that sells Trek tried to up sell me to a 1.5 after telling him what I was intended to use it for. The 1.5 has nice components but it was WAY out of my price range. Plus, their store warranty is lacking compared to other LBSs. Overall, I love my Allez. It's nothing fancy nor has great quality components but I'm okay with the entry level set. I bought the bike for ME and only ME.

Re the post office: obviously the post office is facing reduced demand by virtue of electronic and private alternatives, but one of the problems the post office faces is that it has had to fund itself ever since the Reagan administration but it suffers from the inflexibility of having to answer to Congress. That's being in the worst of both worlds. In the business world, the post office is vital but often taken from granted service and the value of service one receives for the price of a stamp is second to none.

Re Trek hate: From the responses, I'm starting to think that Trek is to bikes what Metallica was to metal in the late 80s. Metallica hit this interesting middle ground - they were the heaviest band a person that wasn't into "heavy" heavy metal could appreciate, and the lightest band the "heavy" heavy metal fans found acceptable. A person into Warrant and Guns-n-Roses could enjoy Metallica, as could the Slayer fan. That wide appeal obviously translated into great sales. But it also meant that proclaiming Metallica to be your favorite band made you a suspect poser - and at the very least, somebody with pretty generic and un-adventurous taste.

Trek, from the thread, it seems is the best bike that's accessible and appreciated by the entry level market and is also still acceptable by the higher end market. That makes it a common bike, the possible mark of a noob, the possible mark of somebody trying to buy their way into a more elite crowd than their ability would otherwise allow. So, to the budget bike set (of which I include myself), Trek can be a signal that the rider is a bit of an elitist with a superiority complex. To the racer, Trek can be a signal that the rider is less than the sum of his gear.

Re: "made in America" - Import bikes cost significantly less than American or European made bikes of the same quality. Those savings are coming from somewhere, whether they be from exploitative wages, the externalization of environmental hazards or cutting corners on workplace safety. Obviously, that's the world we live in and we all do the best we can. But here's an interesting fact: American wages haven't kept pace with inflation, meaning that American make and expect lower wages comparative to the overall value of the dollar than they did back in 1970s - a time when a hobbyist could walk into JCPenny and buy an affordable Roadmaster or Murray. And if you wanted to spend a little more money, you could buy a Scwhinn or a Trek. And of course you could buy an elite American or European made bike if you desired such an extravagance. Today, the only market that American made bikes serve is the highest end - and that's in large part because having an American made bike is prized extravagance in and of itself to the point that its like have a fashionable high end name on your bike - you're paying for the value bestowed by the label. It easy to say that's because American workers priced themselves out of their jobs. But the reality is that American firms made profits selling bikes across the spectrum of the market while paying their workers higher real wages than they'd have to pay them now.

The profits just weren't as big as they could be when you work people on slave wages, in dangerous condition, and/or dump your waste into the stream and air without check.

^^ And this thing about slave wages, dangerous conditions, horrendous waste dumping, and spotty quality control is why I got my frame and fork made in America...BUT, unfortunately most of the components are made in China mostly with a few parts in Taiwan, and Singapore, and this is true of all brands except Campy. So unless I wanted to use Paul's components for some stuff, he doesn't do derailleurs, we are all out of luck.

It is what it is, though I try my best not to buy stuff made in China but I realize too that it's impossible not to. Even American made cars import a huge number of parts from China to go into their cars, so buying American doesn't really mean a whole lot anymore, besides most if not all foreign car companies have assembly plants here in America thus employing Americans. But if I can find a product that I want made in any other country other than China I get that instead, but money is money. On my new bike I spent a bit more then I wanted to so I had to stop with Shimano 105 instead of getting Campy Athena that would have cost me another $800 to get made in Italy components. The last new bike I got I did get Campy Athena but I got a fantastic deal that was actually cheaper than what 105 would have cost, but that was in 2007 and Mercian for some reason is able to sell Campy products a lot cheaper than you can buy in America for, and combine that savings with getting a previous year closeout Athena and I had no choice!

I do think after riding the two now for about 4 months that Athena is a bit nicer than 105 even with the rear derailleur upgraded to Ultegra on the new bike...but that is just my impressions.

I agree with the person (a few pages back) who talked about the "Trek Hate" started over the whole Greg LeMond / Lance Armstrong lawsuits and Trek (foolishly) parting ways with Greg LeMond. Go to any Trek dealer and you'll still see some of those Livestrong series of Trek's that they are practically giving away. Nobody wants them due to the association with Lance Armstrong.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...ivestrong_fx/#

I don't seriously hate Trek, and I don't mean any harm. Trek makes nice bikes and all, but they are everywhere. I mean, Lord Almighty, there has to be 9,328,417 Treks on the roads and bike paths on any given weekend!! I don't own a Trek and don't plan on owning one. I tried them and the seat is so hard, it's like sitting on a brick! :eek:

Long story short - You can find a lot better bike with better components for a lot less money than Trek.

My Dutch Koga, builds the bikes up on Taiwan manufactured, for them , frames .

The profit margins are probably better, that way ..

dont like a component picked by the product manager? put something else on.

Shop take offs resell somehow.

LBS sells Treks .. they ship on a rotating credit , so the shop sells the bikes , then pays for them

and a few employees get to eat and drink .
shop overhead gets paid.. etc.

It's the same reason I don't drive a Honda; and what's really bad Harley Davidsons have gone the same route, so many people have them that their no longer special just another Honda.

And yes you can find a better bike with better components than a Trek for less money. Someone has to pay for all that advertising and pro sports teams sponsorships...guess who that might be?