Shoes
#76
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From: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
i am not able to watch the videos right now
but i would be very surprised if anyone in the video says clipless are not safe for riding on city streets
judging by the quotes you selected
they acknowledge there are dis and ad vantages
but the reasoning that clipless pedals reduce safety
by any noticeable or practical amount
is a theory that yourself and nightshade
and very few others subscribe to
least of all
people with experience riding with modern clipless
but i would be very surprised if anyone in the video says clipless are not safe for riding on city streets
judging by the quotes you selected
they acknowledge there are dis and ad vantages
but the reasoning that clipless pedals reduce safety
by any noticeable or practical amount
is a theory that yourself and nightshade
and very few others subscribe to
least of all
people with experience riding with modern clipless
Now we're talking.
Your opinion seems legit. I have no figure nor test to prove or disprove what i believe. There have been many studies that have been made on driver awareness, reactions and stopping distance, reaction time of athlete etc... I doubt anyone here have some specifically designed studies looking at clipless pedal use in urban environment. From my own analysis of a few specific elements here and there and my own experience i believe platform pedals may be safer than clipless in urban environment due to the high probability of unexpected events inherent to busy urban environments and the way clipless pedals are designed, you believe clipless aren't less safe. Everybody is happy

Without proper studies this remains theoretical and based on opinions and experiences. Characters depicted here are fictitious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
................................. 
Last edited by erig007; 05-13-14 at 12:53 PM.
#77
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From: Westchester County, NY
Bikes: Giant TCR SL3 and Trek 1.5
Anyway, this was to show that some cases requires to unclip quickly or act in ways that requires reactions not really compatible with clipless pedals like jumping rearward from the bike. The best solution with clipless pedals being probably to unclip before actions are required but is there always ways to anticipate unexpected random events? I doubt that all unexpected random events can be. Among those that won't be anticipated some of them will requires braking, steering, unclipping quickly and others will requires actions not compatible with clipless pedals like i believe is what happened to me, which is only one example. The drunk homeless guy jumping in front of me being another, scary but not life threatening.
The other things most don't do is properly adjust their pedal tension and occasionally lightly lubricate the release mechanism. If you have a pedal tension that's tight enough to keep you connected but not so tight that you'll have to struggle to release, you'll generally be good.
#78
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From: Waterloo, ON
Bikes: Surly Krampus
#81
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Why rude? You're the one who dramatized your post against clipless pedals, but you won't even provide us with the information for us to make up or change our minds. I invited you to do so, but you seem reluctant, so we can draw another conclusion there too.
#82
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Joined: Dec 2009
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So you take an extremely rare and unlikely scenario and extrapolate it to a point where you argue against clipless. You would have been more screwed if you were in toe clips, and clipless prevent far more accidents than the rare occasions that they (you seem to think) contribute to them. It's like that saying about motorcycle riders: There are two kinds - those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash. It is much better to use clipless and risk the possible anomaly than not wear clipless and face the inevitable accident that is going to come from not wearing them. So you had an exceptional experience. It's not the norm, and no reason to rail so strongly against them.
He's posted that a problem with clipless is you have to think to unclip, but when I asked him how much thought he has to put into keeping his feet ON his platforms, he's strangely silent...
Well, maybe not so strangely.
#83
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From: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth

I don't do much off road rides but i do commute so with the teeth that my pedals have my feet don't slide at all during my commute. In fact my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles. The only moment i have to think about those platforms is when i put my feet on them in order to place my feet at the right place after I stopped.
Last edited by erig007; 05-14-14 at 11:54 AM.
#84



__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
#86
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Joined: Sep 2012
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From: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
First a minor one, when i put both feet on the ground and walk (my bike being between my legs), my legs often hit my pedals and it hurts (not life threatening though). Same when my chain jumps.
This minor injury could become infected i would need to go to the hospital where they would remove my head by mistake (I could add mosquito bites, bird crash on my head...)

Another example, if you fall head first on someone else bike and your head/throat hit those pedals on the other cyclist bike. This could lead to some serious damage.
Also if you lack some coordination (and/or ride like in those funny fails video on youtube where you see someone crashing) and slip off your pedals and ends up (i don't know how) with your head hitting your pedals possibly...probably more likely to see your perf on youtube.
Another example that would lead to the same result, if by any chances your handlebar were to break while you go down from the sidewalk....
But simply slipping off your pedals and hurting your legs, hurts, at worst broken legs hurts but it's rarely life threatening unless this lead to some life threatening event like a truck hitting you while you are on the ground for instance.
There is always chances of mechanical failure, that your bike skid on ice or that generally speaking some unexpected event could lead to some serious damage due to pedals. Crazy events can always happen even those very unlikely. (I should stop drinking (water) i could suffocate
)
Last edited by erig007; 05-15-14 at 07:47 AM.
#88
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Thats Bikeman dot com Cool Bike Parts and Accessories from the Coast of Maine since 1976 now, its a company web seller in Maine..
#89
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Joined: Sep 2012
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From: Potomac, MD
Bikes: 2012 GT Transeo 3 2014 Cannondale CAAD 10 105
one thing to note about clipless pedals.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
#90
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Sorry if i didn't answer your question i had to answer to so many people at the same time 
I don't do much off road rides but i do commute so with the teeth that my pedals have my feet don't slide at all during my commute. In fact my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles. The only moment i have to think about those platforms is when i put my feet on them in order to place my feet at the right place after I stopped.

I don't do much off road rides but i do commute so with the teeth that my pedals have my feet don't slide at all during my commute. In fact my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles. The only moment i have to think about those platforms is when i put my feet on them in order to place my feet at the right place after I stopped.
Do you have to think about how you're going to move your hands in order to steer around a turn? Do you think about all the minor corrections you're continually making in order to remain upright?
No, you don't.
And after you get used to them - which is actually quite fast - you don't even think about unclipping, either.
#91
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Joined: Dec 2009
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one thing to note about clipless pedals.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
#92
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Joined: Sep 2012
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From: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
So if you don't have to think about continuously keeping your feet on your pedals while riding, why do you think you'd have to think about unclipping when you stop?
Do you have to think about how you're going to move your hands in order to steer around a turn? Do you think about all the minor corrections you're continually making in order to remain upright?
No, you don't.
And after you get used to them - which is actually quite fast - you don't even think about unclipping, either.
Do you have to think about how you're going to move your hands in order to steer around a turn? Do you think about all the minor corrections you're continually making in order to remain upright?
No, you don't.
And after you get used to them - which is actually quite fast - you don't even think about unclipping, either.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedals got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then this can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflexes but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflexes to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
Last edited by erig007; 05-15-14 at 05:57 PM.
#93
unclipping isn't a natural move like rising the feet and lowering it. The first thing you do when you start walking when you're a baby is to raise your foot. You learn to put your foot on obstacles as well like on a pedal and to put down on the ground from obstacles as well. All this don't require much learning.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedal got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then he can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflex but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflex to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedal got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then he can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflex but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflex to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
but wrong
if you learn to remove a foot by pushing your heel outward
you can use this strategy to remove your foot from clipless and platforms
again
i am not sure where you got your ideas from
because it certainly wasnt from riding clipless pedals
#94
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From: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
interesting argument
but wrong
if you learn to remove a foot by pushing your heel outward
you can use this strategy to remove your foot from clipless and platforms
again
i am not sure where you got your ideas from
because it certainly wasnt from riding clipless pedals
but wrong
if you learn to remove a foot by pushing your heel outward
you can use this strategy to remove your foot from clipless and platforms
again
i am not sure where you got your ideas from
because it certainly wasnt from riding clipless pedals
Agreed that's a trick you can use if you know this and if your pedals and shoes allow this.
First, does everybody that use dual pedals does like this?
Secondly, it doesn't work on all pedals. On my platform pedals there is too much grip, i can't rotate horizontally so this trick won't work on my pedals and i'm probably not the only one.
And, it remains that twisting the foot isn't as a natural move as walking and stepping sideways like you would do if you were on platform pedals.
It can works for some though. Probably with most cycling specific shoes and some hybrid shoes and pedals.
Last edited by erig007; 05-16-14 at 09:05 AM.
#95
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Joined: Jun 2003
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one thing to note about clipless pedals.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.
as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
Again, I say that riding with anticipation is really useful. That means unclipping a bit earlier than you might otherwise think... if you unclip well before a red light, for example, and it then changes green, there is no issue just clipping back in again and keeping on riding.
Another useful thing to do is to do single leg drills from time to time. This is not a strength thing, but is more about getting used to pedalling forward when you have trouble getting the other foot clipped in, and to avoid getting into trouble because of that. I watched as a guy at a traffic light two days ago missed his first attempt at clipping in, came to almost a standstill, just missed an oncoming pedestrian as he kept looking down to see what was wrong.
#96
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Joined: Jun 2003
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No-one is, I think, denying that using clipless pedals is a learned function. But like everything, practise makes perfect.
People have been advised so many times that when they set up their pedals:
1. Lean the bike up against a wall or between a door frame and clip in/clip out 50 or more times so you get the routine right.
2. Ease off the release tension on Shimano pedals and whatever others have that adjustment until the routine is learned.
3. Unclip early.
People have been advised so many times that when they set up their pedals:
1. Lean the bike up against a wall or between a door frame and clip in/clip out 50 or more times so you get the routine right.
2. Ease off the release tension on Shimano pedals and whatever others have that adjustment until the routine is learned.
3. Unclip early.
#97
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Joined: Dec 2009
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unclipping isn't a natural move like rising the feet and lowering it. The first thing you do when you start walking when you're a baby is to raise your foot. You learn to put your foot on obstacles as well like on a pedal and to put down on the ground from obstacles as well. All this don't require much learning.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedals got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then this can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflexes but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflexes to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedals got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then this can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflexes but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflexes to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
The "0 mph fall" with clipless pedals is no different from the "0 mph fall" when learning to ride a bicycle.
I'll note that you didn't answer my question about how much thought you have to put into keeping your feet continuously on your platform pedals.
If you can learn to pedal constantly without thinking about it, you can learn to unclip without thinking about it.
Or do you also have to consciously think, "OK, I have to move my foot THIS way, then PUSH it down." to hit the brakes on your car when you drive?
#98
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From: Sacramento, California, USA
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
On my ride to work this morning, I was riding in regular rubber soled dress shoes on SPD-SL pedals. It's not perfect, but works fairly well for short trips when I don't want to bother with changing shoes. I realized I spent a fair amount of time making sure my feet were correctly aligned on the pedal and at every stoplight I had to remind myself not to pull up. So there's that.
Just an observation.
Just an observation.
#99
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Joined: Jun 2003
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On my ride to work this morning, I was riding in regular rubber soled dress shoes on SPD-SL pedals. It's not perfect, but works fairly well for short trips when I don't want to bother with changing shoes. I realized I spent a fair amount of time making sure my feet were correctly aligned on the pedal and at every stoplight I had to remind myself not to pull up. So there's that.
Just an observation.
Just an observation.
#100
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From: Waterloo, ON
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This is an interesting point about positioning on platforms. I have combination Shimano pedals on my touring bike -- clipless on one side, platform on the other. Irrespective of the shoes I am wearing -- MTB, flip flops, ordinary shoes -- I just cannot seem to get the right position on the platforms. But clip in the MTB shoes, and I am as happy as Larry. Over the years, my feet, ankles and legs have become accustomed to being locked into place. I can handle riding platforms for three miles or so -- I did that one-way for four years on a commute -- but longer than that, and my legs start get a low level ache.
Now that I've found a good waterproof winter boot, my last problem is solved. I'll use Shimano SPD sandals until around late October, and then switch to a lighter boot.
It seems like most people like Crank Brothers cleats more than Shimano cleats, but the hybrid pedals they sell at my nearby bike shop only fit the SPD system. And I want hybrid pedals so I can wear regular shoes on a day at the park with my kids.









