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Old 05-13-14 | 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
i am not able to watch the videos right now
but i would be very surprised if anyone in the video says clipless are not safe for riding on city streets

judging by the quotes you selected
they acknowledge there are dis and ad vantages
but the reasoning that clipless pedals reduce safety
by any noticeable or practical amount
is a theory that yourself and nightshade
and very few others subscribe to
least of all
people with experience riding with modern clipless

Now we're talking.
Your opinion seems legit. I have no figure nor test to prove or disprove what i believe. There have been many studies that have been made on driver awareness, reactions and stopping distance, reaction time of athlete etc... I doubt anyone here have some specifically designed studies looking at clipless pedal use in urban environment. From my own analysis of a few specific elements here and there and my own experience i believe platform pedals may be safer than clipless in urban environment due to the high probability of unexpected events inherent to busy urban environments and the way clipless pedals are designed, you believe clipless aren't less safe. Everybody is happy
Without proper studies this remains theoretical and based on opinions and experiences. Characters depicted here are fictitious. Any similarity to actual persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
.................................

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Old 05-13-14 | 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
Anyway, this was to show that some cases requires to unclip quickly or act in ways that requires reactions not really compatible with clipless pedals like jumping rearward from the bike. The best solution with clipless pedals being probably to unclip before actions are required but is there always ways to anticipate unexpected random events? I doubt that all unexpected random events can be. Among those that won't be anticipated some of them will requires braking, steering, unclipping quickly and others will requires actions not compatible with clipless pedals like i believe is what happened to me, which is only one example. The drunk homeless guy jumping in front of me being another, scary but not life threatening.
I preface this by saying that I purposely didn't adopt clipless my first year back to biking because of a combination of fear and a congenital condition that, believe it or not, impacts my balance but causes no limitations to me on a bike, really. It's been my experience that if you know how to care for and adjust your pedals, you'll eliminate any potential issues as much as possible. Beyond that, there are things I do when I ride down to NYC such as keeping one foot unclipped and resting on the pedal in heavy traffic, to help eliminate an unforeseen situation. In these situations, you're not going fast enough to really need to pedal anyway.

The other things most don't do is properly adjust their pedal tension and occasionally lightly lubricate the release mechanism. If you have a pedal tension that's tight enough to keep you connected but not so tight that you'll have to struggle to release, you'll generally be good.
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Old 05-13-14 | 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
Wait ... wasn't this thread about waterproof boots?

I posted a link to the Lake ones, but I think there are other brands as well.
Yeah, we're waaaay past that point now. I think I've created a bit of a monster here.
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Old 05-13-14 | 09:03 PM
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Old 05-13-14 | 09:18 PM
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^^ looks expensive




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Old 05-14-14 | 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Nightshade
To rude to respond to... Really!
Why rude? You're the one who dramatized your post against clipless pedals, but you won't even provide us with the information for us to make up or change our minds. I invited you to do so, but you seem reluctant, so we can draw another conclusion there too.
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Old 05-14-14 | 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Rider_1
So you take an extremely rare and unlikely scenario and extrapolate it to a point where you argue against clipless. You would have been more screwed if you were in toe clips, and clipless prevent far more accidents than the rare occasions that they (you seem to think) contribute to them. It's like that saying about motorcycle riders: There are two kinds - those who have crashed, and those who are going to crash. It is much better to use clipless and risk the possible anomaly than not wear clipless and face the inevitable accident that is going to come from not wearing them. So you had an exceptional experience. It's not the norm, and no reason to rail so strongly against them.
Thanks for spelling it out for him.

He's posted that a problem with clipless is you have to think to unclip, but when I asked him how much thought he has to put into keeping his feet ON his platforms, he's strangely silent...

Well, maybe not so strangely.
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Old 05-14-14 | 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by achoo
Thanks for spelling it out for him.

He's posted that a problem with clipless is you have to think to unclip, but when I asked him how much thought he has to put into keeping his feet ON his platforms, he's strangely silent...

Well, maybe not so strangely.
Sorry if i didn't answer your question i had to answer to so many people at the same time

I don't do much off road rides but i do commute so with the teeth that my pedals have my feet don't slide at all during my commute. In fact my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles. The only moment i have to think about those platforms is when i put my feet on them in order to place my feet at the right place after I stopped.

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Old 05-14-14 | 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Rowan
Why rude? You're the one who dramatized your post against clipless pedals, but you won't even provide us with the information for us to make up or change our minds. I invited you to do so, but you seem reluctant, so we can draw another conclusion there too.
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I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.

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Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
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Old 05-14-14 | 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles.
and yet you cannot imagine a scenario that slipping off a pedal can hurt the riders leg
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Old 05-14-14 | 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
and yet you cannot imagine a scenario that slipping off a pedal can hurt the riders leg
For sure, after some thinking i can even imagine some scenario where those pedals could lead to life threatening damages
First a minor one, when i put both feet on the ground and walk (my bike being between my legs), my legs often hit my pedals and it hurts (not life threatening though). Same when my chain jumps.
This minor injury could become infected i would need to go to the hospital where they would remove my head by mistake (I could add mosquito bites, bird crash on my head...)
Another example, if you fall head first on someone else bike and your head/throat hit those pedals on the other cyclist bike. This could lead to some serious damage.
Also if you lack some coordination (and/or ride like in those funny fails video on youtube where you see someone crashing) and slip off your pedals and ends up (i don't know how) with your head hitting your pedals possibly...probably more likely to see your perf on youtube.
Another example that would lead to the same result, if by any chances your handlebar were to break while you go down from the sidewalk....

But simply slipping off your pedals and hurting your legs, hurts, at worst broken legs hurts but it's rarely life threatening unless this lead to some life threatening event like a truck hitting you while you are on the ground for instance.

There is always chances of mechanical failure, that your bike skid on ice or that generally speaking some unexpected event could lead to some serious damage due to pedals. Crazy events can always happen even those very unlikely. (I should stop drinking (water) i could suffocate )

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Old 05-15-14 | 11:51 AM
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^^ after superman, spiderman, batman, wonder woman, iron man... Now, there is.... bikeman
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Old 05-15-14 | 12:44 PM
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Thats Bikeman dot com Cool Bike Parts and Accessories from the Coast of Maine since 1976 now, its a company web seller in Maine..
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Old 05-15-14 | 12:54 PM
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one thing to note about clipless pedals.

make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.

as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
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Old 05-15-14 | 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
Sorry if i didn't answer your question i had to answer to so many people at the same time

I don't do much off road rides but i do commute so with the teeth that my pedals have my feet don't slide at all during my commute. In fact my problem is more how not to damage my winter boots outsoles. The only moment i have to think about those platforms is when i put my feet on them in order to place my feet at the right place after I stopped.
So if you don't have to think about continuously keeping your feet on your pedals while riding, why do you think you'd have to think about unclipping when you stop?

Do you have to think about how you're going to move your hands in order to steer around a turn? Do you think about all the minor corrections you're continually making in order to remain upright?

No, you don't.

And after you get used to them - which is actually quite fast - you don't even think about unclipping, either.
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Old 05-15-14 | 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cderalow
one thing to note about clipless pedals.

make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.

as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
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Old 05-15-14 | 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by achoo
So if you don't have to think about continuously keeping your feet on your pedals while riding, why do you think you'd have to think about unclipping when you stop?

Do you have to think about how you're going to move your hands in order to steer around a turn? Do you think about all the minor corrections you're continually making in order to remain upright?

No, you don't.

And after you get used to them - which is actually quite fast - you don't even think about unclipping, either.
unclipping isn't a natural move like rising the feet and lowering it. The first thing you do when you start walking when you're a baby is to raise your foot. You learn to put your foot on obstacles as well like on a pedal and to put down on the ground from obstacles as well. All this don't require much learning.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedals got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then this can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflexes but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflexes to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.

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Old 05-15-14 | 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by erig007
unclipping isn't a natural move like rising the feet and lowering it. The first thing you do when you start walking when you're a baby is to raise your foot. You learn to put your foot on obstacles as well like on a pedal and to put down on the ground from obstacles as well. All this don't require much learning.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedal got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then he can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflex but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflex to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
interesting argument
but wrong

if you learn to remove a foot by pushing your heel outward
you can use this strategy to remove your foot from clipless and platforms

again
i am not sure where you got your ideas from
because it certainly wasnt from riding clipless pedals
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Old 05-15-14 | 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
interesting argument
but wrong

if you learn to remove a foot by pushing your heel outward
you can use this strategy to remove your foot from clipless and platforms

again
i am not sure where you got your ideas from
because it certainly wasnt from riding clipless pedals

Agreed that's a trick you can use if you know this and if your pedals and shoes allow this.
First, does everybody that use dual pedals does like this?
Secondly, it doesn't work on all pedals. On my platform pedals there is too much grip, i can't rotate horizontally so this trick won't work on my pedals and i'm probably not the only one.
And, it remains that twisting the foot isn't as a natural move as walking and stepping sideways like you would do if you were on platform pedals.
It can works for some though. Probably with most cycling specific shoes and some hybrid shoes and pedals.

Last edited by erig007; 05-16-14 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-16-14 | 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by cderalow
one thing to note about clipless pedals.

make sure the cleats are tightly secured every few months. My one and only clipless fall was the result of the cleat moving on the shoe because it wasn't tight and my foot not disengaging.

as said... at 0mph, it hurt my pride more than anything else.
It's handy to practise unclipping first with both feet. We get into the habit of unclipping with one foot to put it on the ground. I unclip with my right and leave the left clipped in. I've had the loose cleat thing, too. What saved me was having enough time to register this and unclip with my left foot. Of course, there is that balance issue which requires you/me to tip to the left.

Again, I say that riding with anticipation is really useful. That means unclipping a bit earlier than you might otherwise think... if you unclip well before a red light, for example, and it then changes green, there is no issue just clipping back in again and keeping on riding.

Another useful thing to do is to do single leg drills from time to time. This is not a strength thing, but is more about getting used to pedalling forward when you have trouble getting the other foot clipped in, and to avoid getting into trouble because of that. I watched as a guy at a traffic light two days ago missed his first attempt at clipping in, came to almost a standstill, just missed an oncoming pedestrian as he kept looking down to see what was wrong.
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Old 05-16-14 | 03:47 AM
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No-one is, I think, denying that using clipless pedals is a learned function. But like everything, practise makes perfect.

People have been advised so many times that when they set up their pedals:

1. Lean the bike up against a wall or between a door frame and clip in/clip out 50 or more times so you get the routine right.

2. Ease off the release tension on Shimano pedals and whatever others have that adjustment until the routine is learned.

3. Unclip early.
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Old 05-16-14 | 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by erig007
unclipping isn't a natural move like rising the feet and lowering it. The first thing you do when you start walking when you're a baby is to raise your foot. You learn to put your foot on obstacles as well like on a pedal and to put down on the ground from obstacles as well. All this don't require much learning.
Tell me where do you naturally have to twist sideways your foot horizontally? Soccer maybe. Other than that???
Unclipping requires some learning. It is another level of complexity vs just using platform pedals (which is already complex since it requires some coordination between hands and feet). I doubt anyone who started using clipless pedals got it the first time. The 0mph fall probably happened to everybody using them. After a while then this can become like you were born unclipping.(both may become conditioned reflexes but one may have been done for 10-20-30-40 years while the other haven't though i'm not sure it really makes any difference but it is to be noticed) Where it becomes more complicated is when you have different reflexes to acquire depending if your pedal is on clipless mode or platform mode. When you suddenly have to remove your feet from pedals which reflex are you having when there are 2 different options? You brain must decide which option to go for which requires a voluntary reaction rather than just a conditioned reflex.
Unclipping is no more "unnatural" than holding your feet on platforms that spin in circles.

The "0 mph fall" with clipless pedals is no different from the "0 mph fall" when learning to ride a bicycle.

I'll note that you didn't answer my question about how much thought you have to put into keeping your feet continuously on your platform pedals.

If you can learn to pedal constantly without thinking about it, you can learn to unclip without thinking about it.

Or do you also have to consciously think, "OK, I have to move my foot THIS way, then PUSH it down." to hit the brakes on your car when you drive?
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Old 05-16-14 | 10:18 AM
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On my ride to work this morning, I was riding in regular rubber soled dress shoes on SPD-SL pedals. It's not perfect, but works fairly well for short trips when I don't want to bother with changing shoes. I realized I spent a fair amount of time making sure my feet were correctly aligned on the pedal and at every stoplight I had to remind myself not to pull up. So there's that.
Just an observation.
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Old 05-16-14 | 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
On my ride to work this morning, I was riding in regular rubber soled dress shoes on SPD-SL pedals. It's not perfect, but works fairly well for short trips when I don't want to bother with changing shoes. I realized I spent a fair amount of time making sure my feet were correctly aligned on the pedal and at every stoplight I had to remind myself not to pull up. So there's that.
Just an observation.
This is an interesting point about positioning on platforms. I have combination Shimano pedals on my touring bike -- clipless on one side, platform on the other. Irrespective of the shoes I am wearing -- MTB, flip flops, ordinary shoes -- I just cannot seem to get the right position on the platforms. But clip in the MTB shoes, and I am as happy as Larry. Over the years, my feet, ankles and legs have become accustomed to being locked into place. I can handle riding platforms for three miles or so -- I did that one-way for four years on a commute -- but longer than that, and my legs start get a low level ache.
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Old 05-16-14 | 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan
This is an interesting point about positioning on platforms. I have combination Shimano pedals on my touring bike -- clipless on one side, platform on the other. Irrespective of the shoes I am wearing -- MTB, flip flops, ordinary shoes -- I just cannot seem to get the right position on the platforms. But clip in the MTB shoes, and I am as happy as Larry. Over the years, my feet, ankles and legs have become accustomed to being locked into place. I can handle riding platforms for three miles or so -- I did that one-way for four years on a commute -- but longer than that, and my legs start get a low level ache.
This is the reason I'm going clipless actually -- it was recommended for a proper bike fit. After a bit of reading, my takeaway is that the improved power transfer will generally cause you to put less stress on your knees. But if you get the cleat position wrong, you could force your feet to rotate the wrong way, damaging the medial knee with every pedal stroke. So clipless pedals will help me on long rides, but only if I get it right the first time. And my professional fitting is due in a couple weeks.

Now that I've found a good waterproof winter boot, my last problem is solved. I'll use Shimano SPD sandals until around late October, and then switch to a lighter boot.

It seems like most people like Crank Brothers cleats more than Shimano cleats, but the hybrid pedals they sell at my nearby bike shop only fit the SPD system. And I want hybrid pedals so I can wear regular shoes on a day at the park with my kids.
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