I think it's great the cross cup is getting big numbers out. I also think that overall course design for the cup hasn't been able to keep up with the numbers. There are much better ways to spread out the field than 100 yard sprints into hairpin bends - IMO this has led to the lunacy of having to line up 30 minutes beforehand. I've raced in 100+ fields before without any major problems, but there the course designers knew what they were doing. Personally, because I 'm such a poor starter, I'm very reluctant to do any race where the front row is given a free 30 seconds.

Yup, Badger prairie didn't have much atmosphere. Cam-rock was much better. Everyone was in a good mood. Free beer does that to you.

My observation is that the WI masters are much deeper and stronger than Chicago. Chicago cat 3s and 4s are much faster than WI though. WI does a better job of bringing better P12 racers out. I think that the Chicago 1/2/3 standard is very poor. With the increased numbers they can afford to increase the payout substantially. Best thing about the cross cup this year is the much larger Cat 4 Women and Juniors fields.

I'm all in favor of roadies doing cross.

fwiw, WI has three Cat 4 races, not one.

See you guys at St. Charles.

No No ... Milwaukee's Washington Park! You know, flaming coffin barriers and all. http://forum.uncoverreality.com/imag...lies/yahoo.gif

St. Charles and Wash park are on consecutive days. We can get a double dose of Halloweenie!

http://www.madcross.org/2009/UWW%20C...0DRAFT%202.pdf

Whitewater course. Beach anyone?

A little Minnesota Cycling Federation CX from the weekend (though both races were in Wisc.)

Big Ring Flyers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FuaungrR78

Baker Orchard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl2jmV69Yw8

Well, I had lots of fun at the race sunday. I did get the wind taken out of my sails when the pack bunched up in the hairpin at the third turn.

I don't think the course design is bad. I think riders are making some wildly bad choices. Diving to the inside of the corner does not garuntee you'll mke the corner. And when you're turning around a tree, you're just not going to make it without crossing everyone elses line.

The course was the most fun I've had racing. Every time I lost the will to live, something interesting was thrown at me. The toilet bowl, the hill and pump section, the sand trap... Just a little something to keep things from getting dull.

I'm looking forward to this weekend.

Great job out there and I hope you heard me yelling at you in the sand pit.

No arguements about things like the toilet bowl and sand being interesting and needed, but the incessant turning for no reason other than to lengthen the course got old.

I seriously think there was something like 100 turns.....based off of my audit of the course....of course.

I have always liked toilet bowl sections but this time I was taking it fast enough to actually feel like I was going to puke from the change in direction at the end.

IMO, I think it was a function of the three previous courses having dumb starts where the front row were given a free 30 seconds. People got sick of it and decided to do whatever necessary to get to the front. Such as lining up 30 minutes beforehand and taking crazy lines where the start was a bit more open.

One of my observations of racing in the Cross cup last year was how poorly put together most of the courses were. There's not a lot of material to work with in Chicago, but a bit more thought would go a long way. Carpentersville last year stood out as very well designed and made great use of limited features.

As a course designer, let me add a few thoughts.

I can't speak for others but I have no clue what I am doing.

You start with a rough idea of what would be good and show up with a few teammates and start putting the thing together. It's a pretty big job and it's generally cold so only a few guys are doing the work. Not many want to leave a warm bed to show up and build a race course. I always feel sorry for the Turin guys because Montrose is always absolutely freezing. It soon gets to the point where the sun is going down and you just want to be done. This is if you're lucky enough to be able to set up the night before. Most times you're doing it race morning and are freaking out that you won't finish in time. Many decisions are made "on the fly" after brief conference. It's imperfect to be sure. With any luck there's time to ride the course you've designed before the first race. I think I did this once.

This year cross has exploded. Each race has done over 300 and I think last week they did 388. Lansing last year we did 180, and we were very happy for it.

So now what? We gotta come up with a course that can handle the new crowds and make for a challenging race. My own thought is it should be spectator friendly too, so throw that in the pile too. It's very difficult. Where but experience are you supposed to learn this stuff?

SCW is lucky this year because we've got all Friday to set up the course and may have practice runs available to all racers Friday afternoon. We'll have a chance to tweak and improve. We've got more time when time isn't always an option.

cross your fingers

Thanks, Super Girl. Well said, as always.

Thats' the nub. Chicago doesn't have much cyclocross continuity or tradition. Takes racing for a few years and travelling to a few different states to see how they do it. I've seen some bizarre and unsafe features in Chicross courses that I find hard to believe could be put there by someone experienced.

How to design a good course? Talk to people with experience. Talk to Cat 1 riders who have travelled a lot. Take advice.

For larger fields, how about a separate starting chute? Riders can line up there and get ready while other racers are finishing the previous race. Should save a lot of time. Make the chute as long as possible in order to string things out a bit, and don't send folks into hairpins straight away. There's also no reason that the start should be at the finish line. I've been in many races where they started us on the other side of the course because it was deemed the safest and fairest place to start. Maybe choose the longest straight and use that?

You haven't been here in a while. They have been doing that.

Bit confused here. Carpentersville seemed to be the only one where they put some thought into stringing out the start by having a longer starting stretch? Didn't JP, Dekalb, Dan Ryan start right at the finish line or a few yards back?

All of the ones I have done this year (I did not do Jackson Park) had a starting chute. That's why we're queued up 30 minutes before the race...we can be. Dekalb was the only one with a short straight and then some turns right off the start.

So the start line wasn't on the normal course?

Correct.

From an email:

The GIbbs Lake cross race is cancelled due to the park's dept decision that they were not willing to allow racing in the conditions that exist. Areas of the park have 6 inches of standing water. The race will be rescheduled ( tentatively Nov 15).

The WCA and promoters regret this and would ask your help on getting the word out to racers.

Renee

Can Chicago pull one off??

More bad news for cross racers - The city of Whitewater has said no go. Please spread the word that the Whitewater race is also canceled and will be rescheduled.

Leave now and you can race the USGP in Ky! Or consider the Chicago Cross Cup!

Renee

Bandit 'Cross somewhere in the Madison area on Sunday. Google to find out where it is I guess:

Subject: BEECHWOOD recoil cross race

True that both WCA CX races for this weekend are cancelled due to perfect cross weather. Reason enough to get something new off the ground. Beechwood Recoil Cross will lay the foundation. Sunday 2pm. No Categories. 60 for all. $5 donations welcomed. Rain or rain or rain or shine. Spread the good word to those that you know will groove. BYO beer, grillables, bells, clean bikes, dogs, smiles, towels, shoes, legs, lungs, and ideas for the birth of our new Crosshairs CX Series. We’ll provide the grass, hills, mud, hills, fires, hills, grills, and hills. Years from now you can say you were there. Find someone who's been…….and find your way. See ya in the field!
MC

Today I actually had a race. I spent my first lap trading places with Rodrigo, and I only had a minute on him the whole second lap. We were the last two people racing, but we were racing!

The track was soft again. Less soul sucking than dekalb, but it was close.

Twice I had the front tire slide out on me. If I were on a motorcycle I'd be riding wth my weight up over the front wheel. Any suggestions? or is cross racing a ballance of speed and pushing the front in corners?

Just for posterity, I ran 20psi in my clinchers today. Never felt the tire fold over. I think at dekalb I might have been running 10-15psi...

Sunny and warm here in Wisco. Sure is a good thing that both days of racing was canceled. :notamused:

Some video from the last MTB race in Sheboygan: http://vimeo.com/7087981

More videos here: http://www.wors.org/news/article.php?id=651

Went to the nearest race to me. Dicecycling series in the Quad Cities. Despite a lot of saturated grass, it was a very, very fast non-technical course on mostly hardpack, with one hard hill and a hellishly steep and long runup. Higher tire pressures than normal were in order.

My tires were fine when I took to the start line. 3 mins later when we started my rear was flat. Can't figure out exactly what happened. It was a single pit and I was twenty yards past it when I figured out something was wrong. I was tempted to cut back, change the wheel and start again but that would probably be a DQ and there were still series points to be gained. Had to pull off the course to get out of the way of the waves starting after me, then nursed the bike around for a full lap at about 6 mph, executed the world's slowest wheel change and settled into TT mode. Couldn't figure out until afterwards why my gears kept spontaneously shifting , somehow I had a 10-speed cassette on the pit wheels (I run 9-speed on my CX bike).

Well DFL is better than DNF or DQ. Anyway, I hunhg in there and must have passed more people than I remember because I won $10 for my trouble. Also got enough points to hold on to 2nd in my cat in the series.

My legs weren't great, a bit flat, but Brian Eppen still only lapped me once - which means I must not be doing too bad.

It's actually near Kewaskum / New Fane in the Kettle Moraine Forest. Home of the Curtes Brothers' Beechwood Blaster MTB race.

I went and had my arse handed to me. SS geared way too high for this hellish course! Running 40x18 and everyone else with SS was 39x20 or similar. Lots of tough climbs with not much recovery. Two run ups, lots of barriers, dogs, two way traffic for a brief section and doggies! Hey, hey, hey was the magic words to get the pups to move though! Lots of fun and the pit and had lots beer. Grillin' afterwards made for some good times.

Curtes Brothers are looking to put on more races on private grounds with open catergories similar to stuff out west.

All in all good times today! Can't wait to Washington Park and a bit flatter ground...or I guess I could invest in a couple extra gears...hmmm

ok. Important question.

Where are we meeting for beer after St. Charles?

Fixed.