John, please READ the post before responding...
i in no way stated or even alluded that a bike mechanic is equivalent --- my point was exactly the opposite: that it is NOT.
BUT, as this is the car-free section of the Bike Forum, i thought an obvious alternative to Auto Mechanic would be bike mechanic -- what would you suggest as the "more" obvious alternative if someone were to give up being an auto-mechanic b/c of moral disbelief in the auto-society? maybe train mechanic for public transit or busses?... but that seems a little less "generic"

well, i drive to a very small town Via 5 miles of backroads than an interstate. I would expect the back roads be maintained by the county taxes.
If they decided to plow less, I could get by with 4WD easily.

Everyone needs something to feel self-righteous about, and this forum gives the opportunity for some people to pat themselves on the back and play holier-than-thou for a little while. Our society is also about disparaging people that are not like us so that we may feel better about ourselves. We all do it. Hell, I'm doing it right now! The world would probably be a much better place if everyone worked on improving their own faults and shortcomings rather than incessantly pointing out those of others.

So what if my neighbor owns 10 Hummers. I can make myself sick worrying about it or getting mad, or I can have fun riding my bike and maybe even make friends with him and be an inspiration to him.

Browbeating only works on kids (sometimes) and employees. It doesn't work with religion, politics or social issues. It generally just polarizes the sides and creates more conflict. Those who engage in the practice of constantly chastising others for their behavior only marginalize themselves and tick everyone else off. Bitterness is a pill that one swallows, then hopes someone else feels the effects. I sense a lot of bitterness and maybe even jealousy when reading some of these posts. You're only hurting yourself.

Biking is supposed to be fun. Let's showcase how fun it is to ride, and it may encourage others to give it a try. Giving up the car happens much, much later.

Five miles is pretty short. But the cost of maintaining that rural road is shared by a lot fewer people than the cost of maintaining 5 miles of road in downtown Indianapolis, so in a rational world, that portion of your taxes should be much higher than someone pays in the city.

Sounds fair to me. Of course then only rich people get to enjoy living in the country.

Well, now we all know where you live! :)

(For readers who don't get it, click here)

For me, being car free teaches me to get by with less than most people. Being car free teaches me to be less driven by consumerism. It teaches me that I don't "need" a car to be content with my life, and that I can get around whilst excersizing (something most americans lack to begin with).

Whereas you are not willing to make the change to be car-free (yes, it is a choice... same as being veg/etari/an). You'd use your car(s) if it meant having more money in the end, allowing you to drive your toy cars and motorbikes, SUV's, perhaps live in some suburbia with an obnoxiously sized house for you, wife, and 2.5 kids. In the end when you acquire it all... I would not at all be suprised if you wanted more, or felt it's not enough to satisfy you and your ideal life. Our own standards change all the time. If you ever made the decision to change over to a car-free life, we will all be here to applaud you :) If not, then whatevs. I guess we tried...?

I'm not trying to be "holier than thou", but I'm trying to do my part and be more consious of my actions and choices. There are things I still need to work on, but the chance to maintain, and perhaps better our environment is worth it to me. "Utility cycling" puts us more in touch and perspective with what's around us, which compells me to care more about the environment. Driving isolates you from your surroundings, which could be a factor to the numbness a lot of people feel towards the environment.

I read through all the posts, and many of you brought up interesting points... just thought I'd let you know :) I'm sure this forum is here to help people like expat understand what it means to be car free and car lite (miller lite?), while helping the fellow car-freesters (wtf ahah) with advice and whatnot.

And to save time and posting stats, I'm gonna crunch this one in:

Happened in Honolulu too :\ still very car-centered on the islands... pretty sad, considering the weather is usually good for a nice bike ride.... until it starts (literally) pouring buckets >:P It happens. Especially during the current season.

Then again, Portland isn't all that grand either. Doesn't pour as hard, but is MUCH colder. It might even snow today :B (Note to self: Get some vodka and honey for hot toddies)

Sorry, I just assumed you didn't have a car since you were implying I was a hypocrit who was out of place posting in the car-free forum, earlier. I don't own a car,LOL. You'd probably like being car-free, it might free your mind from this state of cognitive dissonance that's got a hold of it. As it stands, you just need to go ahead and forget about this thread, as you've squandered every ounce of holier-than-thou credibility you might have imagined you once had.
:)

What about people who own or use cars very cheaply?
I have driven a paid off vehicle for years, it has over 200,00 miles.
All I have to do is pay about 400 dollars per year in Insurance.
It really costs me very little, and mostly I just use it to drive to work.
I also don't live in a mansion ( a small house) or spend much money. I save over 20 percent of my income.
Why isn't that as good as someone who is car free and broke or wastes money on CD's and electronics and clothes, and flushes money fdown the drain in rent?

He really should have quit when he was behind...ouch!

Because you aren't as holy as those (using "those" as a plural form of "thou") who are car free and broke or waste money on CD's and electronics and clothes, and flush money down the drain in rent.

Doubt it? Just read this forum.

or as those who act self-righteous about other people acting self-righteous...

Whah? Yeah, OK, sure, whatever you say.

hey, oil boy, YOU asked if you should feel like a total sell out, and I said no, but you should feel like a partial one. You're a proud car free person but you work on other personal pollution devices? Sounds like you have sold out some too, oiler.

And my car? It was a gift, its 10 years old, and it has been used primarily in the service of saving lives by ferrying me to mountain rescue missions and volunteer work for the national park service- My car is a tool that helps me to save lives. Is that acceptable, oil boy?

On my last trip on July 4 weekend I assisted bringing a lost and disoriented climber off one of the NW volcanoes.

Hey 'pistofferson,

If you ever swing out California-way for a loaded bike tour, drop by Santa Rosa and I'll buy you a beer and we can go crash Bruce Gordon's joint down in Petaluma. Maybe he'll trade some lugs for some Lagunitas and a few jokes or something.

Anyway, back to the tennis match. Have fun!

Hey Yuporcrite, did you ever consider that by working on the cars, he makes them run better and pollute less?

And you, by saving people who drive cars are comitting far graver sins against mother earth
<the same, shaking head, the shame>
The go on to continue to drive and pollute..so ironic.

You still aren't taking any responsibility for the footprint you leave. I hope you don't plan on having kids and adding even more pressure on the eco system.

Umm, not really. I try to live thoughtfully and with as small of an environmental footprint as works for me, and have done so for a long time. I try to live an examined life. I think about my impact.
Sounds like you drive to the store, John. I sure as heck don't!

Are you really dismissing the efforts of someone who volunteers to help save people??

Are you that callous with people in your real life, or just arguing because it suits a fidget??

"save people" you mean reckless yuppies who venture out of their element like fools, so you can step in and be the big hero? What were they doing out there in those mountains...how did they get there?
Must have been more travelling than dropping by a store to get food.

What's so godawful about driving to the store?? LOL

I usually pick up a few items at lunch, a grocery store is part of a lunchtime walk, and put them in the fridge at work until I get home. If i need to go get lumber or something in my pickup, that's what it's for..LOL Most errands i can run on the way home from work.

You sir, are an effing idiot.

Your ears are turning red and you're getting mad, but you have the door wide open to criticize any kind of needless consumption. Is vacation in and of itself no more than selfish waste??
You use recources and pollute to be this "ugly American" who proudfully tots his rich fat American ass any damn where he feels like being a tourist. Why is that not as bad as driving?
Do you realize the impact of airplane's inefficiency in achieving flight, fuel consumption and emissions they produce, when most of it is unecessary? Then of course you rent a car when you get there.
<the horror...the horror>

what are you talking about??

I've never rented a car on any vacation and prefer to get there by human powered means, I'm a regionalist, and have been since i was just a kid.

You are the daily driver, sir, not I.

I'm talking about the people you save, Sir Galahad, and any other tourists who are "car-free" and who fly.
So, you are regionilist, until you move across the country, right?
I have a very cheap paid off means of transportation, and am in fact freer than anyone on this board who has any loans.

I had to reread this thread to make sure we were talking about the same things, John, and then I saw you were the sophist who tried using the BATHTUB GAMBIT.

But don't confuse 'cheap' with 'green', remember? It isn't economic freedom we're talking here.



I hope you never get in an accident, lost in the woods on your snowmobile, or need the help of others at anytime, John....


I'm out of here! And in the immortal words of one of my heroes, Kermit the Frog, "It ain't easy being green!"

Hmm, back to being confused about the statistically dangerous bathtub accident.

You've run out of gas yourself , actually.

Sounds like the "examined life" connotes examining someone else's life, then passing arbitrary judgment.