:beer: Actually, I'll be attending a frame building class in Oregon sometime next year, and I might take some extra time to tour the coast. So...maybe. :)

Frame building, eh? Very niize. Where are you doing that?

Anyway, open invite, and I've got the first case. We could even heckle both Bruce Gordon and Grant Peterson's crüe in the same day if you're up for the ride. Riv's a bit farther out though at about 60 miles or so.

It's up to you. It honestly doesn't make anybody a better human for not driving a car, it just makes me feel better about myself and the impact I have on my surroundings.

I used to drive a paid off car ('77 camaro *sighs*) that had around the same mileage as yours... but some jackass decided to rip out the tube to my fuel line, therefore forcing me back on foot/bike. At that time, I was seriously poor, lived in a rooming house, had a part time job, and survived off of eating mangos off our tree (in hawaii, mind you). At that point, everything costed so much that I just didn't want to deal with it.

It's up to you. Do what makes you feel better, not wtf everybody else tells you to do. I'm hungerz... <3

Ha Ha! Guess who's resorted to flaming me via PM? Sad.

to quote r.a.m.b.o. - "in some cases, cars are okay, but when I'm on the street, you're all my enemies."

Wow. You should start another thread in the "anything goes" area and post his messages.

I guess at least you know he's not going to drive halfway across the country to confront you physically. Because cars are evil. Except his, 'cause it helps him save lives - hey, there should be a TV show like that!

Oh well, I guess the notion of private message doesn't mean anything. Post it, you slob.

How much tailpipe did you suck today, oil boy? How much oil did you dump down the storm drains?

I Do ALL my shopping and daily trips by bicycle. I ride everywhere. I ride on vacation. My car gets driven six times a year perhaps 10 tops, and %80-90 percent of its entire mileage has been towards volunteering to help other people.

What are ethics anyway?

If anyone actually cares to read this thread, and not just be a kneejerk car apologist,

I never called mr krist pissed off person a hypocrite, he declared it himself.


like the frog said, "It ain't easy being green."

PMs are Private Messages. If anyone decides they'd like to post a PM without the sender's permission, consider the fact that it will probably result in a temporary ban from the forums.

Thank you,

Expatriate - Forum Moderator

Say, that's a good point, and I hadn't thought of that. I shouldn't have suggested it.

2) a transportation system set up solely to accomodate cars.

And yeah, I resent the hell out of that second one.[/QUOTE]

Put that energy of resentment into the National Bicycle Greenway Project. It's going to beautiful. The first nation wide bicycle path.

Where you molested by auto mechanics at a young age, or something? Everyone who's read this thread knows what a great guy you are, and all the MacGuyverish stuff you do on a day-to-day basis, so no need to be defensive.

What do you get for name-calling?

I agree with the sentiment of that quote, originally from budstser I think, about "a transportation system set up solely to accomodate cars", but using the phrase "set up" feeds into a common misconception. The road system has existed for a lot longer than cars, and is (in theory) intended for multiple uses, but cars and drivers have bullied their way into dominance. It's more accurate to say something like: "a road system co-opted to accomodate cars".

Lunch with Raiyn and Helmet Head.

How does Raiyn pull off the blue text and barely-applicable JPGs in real life? Does he carry a slide projector or something?

And suddenly, my thread takes a terrible turn...

Gosh this is fun. NOT! I would get us back on topic if I could remember what the topic is. Anybody?

I asked if someone could please explain the contempt that the car-free folks felt towards motorists. Then it became a girly-slapping fight between a few members, with a few valid points thrown in. Oh, and I was pilloried for having an interest in bikes and motor vehicles. Now I just moderate, as my question was vaguely answered, but I have my own suspicions.

I don't hold contempt for car owners.

I am just content to be car free.

In a way, all this is on topic. Many people feel pasionately that car culture is killing the planet, yet find it hard to avoid complicity in their own lives, since it's almost impossible to live car-free in a car-dependant world. So you see strongly emotional posts fueled jointly by blame and guilt.

You know how it is... a few bad apples, etcetera - that goes for both the completely brazen, "if you fart or buy anything from anyone who drives a car, you're polluting or contributing to it and that makes your whole hippie green argument hypocritical and cars are great without exceptions" types as much as the car-free, superzealot, "I'm saving the world for the next generation and you should too, and you should live according to my will because nobody is allowed to be selfish in my perfect world in my mind" opinion-imposers. At either end of the extreme, there's a little wrap-around where they just become barking little caricatures of each other in every other sense than their inability to agree.

I think this is what I most dislike about internet forums.

For what it's worth Expatriate, I'm car-free and I don't hate you and I don't care what you do with your automobiles. I feel pretty good about me and the people I tend to associate with, and that's all that counts. I went car-free for me.

I feel bad. The newest addition to my bike stable will probably be delivered by truck next week. Surely there's a cyclist out there willing to transport it from the seller to me.

Being facetious will get you nowhere fast.

This thread IS nowhere.

You can't blame me for where this thread has gone. I was just noting to myself the irony of it all. I won a Raleigh Twenty folder on ebay Australia. It will probably be delivered by courier, and I find this amusing. Being facetious would be saying that I bought a folding bike to keep in the boot of my car. :D