I had a similar situation about 4 years ago at the local Brookshires grocery store with a woman manager.

Since I really wanted some food, I let their office hold my backpack, then boycotted the store for a couple of years, after which I decided that, if they still had that policy, I would insisted that they called a Police Officer to monitor the handover/return transaction.

When I entered the manager was close to the door but a Latino man this time. He welcomed me as if I was a friend, encouraged me to put my bike wherever I wanted to and, when I quickly ran down my previous experience to him, he assured me that I was welcome any time, with or without the back pack.

Needless to say, I shop there frequently now.

That may well be true - the purse discrimination arguement.

However, there is no law against purse/backpack discrimination .......

What is the primary difference between a purse and a back pack? A man carries a back pack and a woman carries a purse. I back pack can be carried over the should just like a purse and a purse can often be worn like a back pack. Its the same thing, its a bag that carries stuff. Potentially it can carry other peoples property out of their stores.

The discrimination is not against purses and backpacks but against men and women. If a store where to suddenly have a policy against people who wear pants into their store instead of skirts and dresses would this be discrimination against pants?

I'm not trying to justify either side - just trying to point out that there is nothing wrong being done by the shopowner.

Sure, I agree that they are the same thing - but it's his store, and he can set the rules about how he wants people to shop there.

There is no right or wrong here - just a disagreement about what is right.

Heck, my wife has some bags that might fit a wheelset in them - but, then again, my local market encourages me to bring my bike inside, and leave it behind the service counter to be watched. I guess Woodman's is a good place to shop!

If a young woman was wearing a backpack she would be treated the same way. This is wear your gender argument walls apart.

Not really. To file a lawsuit about discrimination you only have to show that a group is disproportionately affected, not exclusively affected.

+1
If someone didn't say it. I would have.

False, a women wearing pants would also be treated the same way. The thing is that the association of pants with significantly more men than women is similar to the situation with a back pack. Why not use the example of make up then.

NO MAKE UP ALLOWED IN MY STORES! If you steal something the makeup could help concealing your identity to the surveillance cameras! Of course men could wear make up too and be subject to the exact same treatment as the women who are not all allowed into the store but the rule clearly effects one gender more than the other.

Your right, he can set rules about HOW he wants people to shop there but not WHO he wants to shop there.

Well ... not really. A purse is pretty exclusively a woman's item in the USA, and a man who carries one is violating a minor taboo. I think he'd be made aware of that by the strange looks he'd get, and he'd also exhibit some discomfort at doing it. Stand up comics joke about men sneering when their girlfriends or wives ask them to hold their purses. On the other hand, ladies in backpacks don't stand out as much, because backpacks aren't "owned" by men as a technology. Hit a local trail, and you'll see these on both sexes. So I think discrimination doesn't apply in the least.

Shop owners just don't want their things stolen. I would bet my wheels that men shoplift more often than women; millions of years of evolution have shaped men more than women into risk takers. Anybody can steal, but a man with the means to hide something is more likely to. Men are stuck with higher car insurance premiums for the same reason, and I think most people accept that.

I'm glad that the people who work at the Trader Joe's by my house aren't twitchy about backpacks, or I would have to take motorized transport to shop there ... or just shop somewhere else. Fortunately they're not, and they get my repeated business. But, if people started stealing a lot of booze from them, and they asked people not to take packs down the beer and wine isles ... I wouldn't really be able to blame them.

Artkansas has a good, but much more subtle point than this.

The difference between purses and backpacks is that high school and college students mostly carry backpacks, and most store managers believe--rightly or wrongly--that a lot of shoplifting is done by students.

I was surprised to find that you're right about men shoplifting more than women. i always thought it was the other way around. I was also surprised to find that middle aged people are more likely to shoplift than students--so shopkeepers would be smart to allow stdents into their stores with backpacks.

https://news.ufl.edu/2005/08/10/shoplifters/

Here in Korea I think more men use purses than women. A lot of men have their own designer purses and then also carry their girl friends purse as a sign of affection.

Do men shoplift more than women or do men just get caught more?

That is what I was wondering, perusing the crime page in my local paper I see that in the past month 11 females were charge with shop lifting and not a single male...

When I worked retail (over 20 years ago) we seemed to catch and prosecute more women than men, perhaps the type of store has some bearing on it?

Aaron

What is really interesting, and funny, is watching our local stores trying to balance between what's legal and what would be nice for them. First off, around here customers are not legally required to hand over their bags or other personal belongings for inspection or to leave them anywhere during shopping. Shop managers try to get around this, mainly to reduce shoplifting.

• some shops have "friendly" "reminders" at checkout about how you should present your bag to the cashier "to maintain mutual trust"
• most bigger stores have lockers where you can leave your stuff, but they also have big signs next to the lockers, stating they accept no responsibility
• most stores have electronic theft alarms at counters, those go off every now and then for whatever reasons. I'd be interested to see what their hit/miss statistics look like. I'm sure the statistics exist, and I'm equally sure they will not be made public any time soon.
• finally, most stores and shopping malls have security personnell that like to present themselves as having the same rights as cops, or "almost" if challenged

Personally, I might consider leaving my stuff when entering the store, provided I get a proper receipt. That's not going to happen anywhere I know of. I'm with jamesdenver here, know your rights and if you find their suggestions unreasonable, shop elsewhere if remotely possible. Fortunately, I've been able to go elsewhere in the couple of cases I've felt uncomfortable with the shop's "rules".

--J

Read this article describing a big study of shoplifters:

https://news.ufl.edu/2005/08/10/shoplifters/

Pol to the rules of war post... haha

Yeah, but their right to do stuff in their store ends as soon as it gets to your personal belongings. Unless they're actually police - with a search warrant - they can't just 'insist on confiscating' your stuff without your permission - doesn't matter where you are. They can 'ask' you to leave your backpack with them or leave the store, but even under the Patriot Act they can't just take your stuff.

Somebody found this old mouldy thread at the bottom of their backpack, and brought it out into the fresh air....
Die thread - Die!

And you just bumped it! Oh ****! I just bumped it! :O

This thread is doomed to another week where people just can't let it rest. :smile:

Sorry. I was searching for something, got interested in the discussion, and posted before checking the date of the last message.

Yes. I currently manage a loss prevention team for a major retailer and we apprehend females far more often then males. The majority of the males that we apprehend are under 25. However, the organized retail crime groups (yes, they exist) tend to be males more frequently.

In my opinion, females are more frequent, but lower dollar. Males on the other hand are less frequent, but higher dollar.

I will never understand why people insist on pointing this out. If someone has something relevant to add to a discussion, why does it matter, no matter how old (as long as they're not expecting a direct answer from someone who may have stopped caring about the thread)? Besides, this was less than 2 months old.