TimJ

Aaaaaahhhh!!!

I could write the dialogue for about everyone here.

bhtooefr

The government programmed it out of us through the public school system.

(I'm going to start reading this book - it discusses just that.)

ModoVincere

makeinu

Probably less than what it could have cost you to hire a lawyer when the roof started leaking and your landlord disappeared six months into the lease, knowing that your only recourse is to sue after you've abrogated your right to withhold rent.

Of course, that's only a potential risk while the 7% is actually realized, but what landlord is willing to give a 7% discount? Don't tell me this was 30 years ago.

acroy

hmmm, this rent vs own debate is an interesting one....
own = no middleman
rent = middleman

over the long term it must be cheaper to own than rent, otherwise no one would be in the rental business...

that said, the typical 3/2/2 on a small lot ain't all that great an "investment", since historically property values go up at 6-8% average per year (some areas higher, some lower) vs. the broad market return of ~13%.

to help build wealth, i quit paying ahead on my house. it appreciates slowly if at all in my area. it is a 30-yr loan at 5.75%, close to free money. the extra few hundered a month are better off invested in an equity fund. heck, even a hi-yeild muni bond fund (tax free returns) average about 8%.

cheers

gwd

I got discounts from two different landlords from about 1995 through 1999. One was a private person whose daytime job was real estate agent the other was a professional real estate/ property management company both in Alexandria VA. As I recall from dealing with landlords payment or non-payment of rent is a separate issue from property maintenance. That is I couldn't withhold rent because the landlord didn't do something that is his or her responsibility. In the years of renting I had two problems with landlords and a call to the landlord tenant office in city hall cleared the problems up very quickly- no lawyer involved. Baltimore probably has a similar office. Anyway paying up front has no effect on other issues. Since landlords like to get their money if they see you as a paying tenant they'll want to keep you.

Freud

Something I have been wondering while reading this thread is what you frugal folks do about gear. I am trying to become more frugal while in college, but finding my new found hobby and way of commuting by bicycle I need some new things.

Rain Gear(the oregon willamete valley, enough said)
Water bottles, cages
bags
the list goes on

What do some of you do to get around buying jersyes, specialized rain gear, fancy items?

r8ingbull

I agree a home is a poor investment if only used as an investment. However, if you are living there you need to include the housing value, or the potential rental income, and subtract expenses. I figure the gain to be 7-12% on my house (in a declining market).

Also agree 100% on the paying extra every month. The 5.75% is also deductible on your income taxes saving 27-34%, bringing the interest rate to 4.025% (my average figures).

r8ingbull

I try to avoid stuff like jerseys.

Remember that your bike raingear can be everyday raingear if you buy the right stuff...

Things like cages/bottles, they only cost $20 for a pair of each and should easily last 20-30 years. I will say that some items become expensive, 10sp chains, 700c tires, cartridge pads, cassettes, etc...

Still cheaper than any car though.

acroy

bingo! and at 3% inflation, the loan costs just over 1%! not a bad deal. Frugal, I'd say

CommuterRun

I keep my eyes open at Goodwill, thrift stores, Wal-Mart, etc. and watch for sales. For instance, a while back, the wife found me a nice, lined, nylon windbreaker and pants at Wal-Mart for $9. A little Scotch Guard and I now have a light weight rainsuit.

But I must admit, most of the time I buy new stuff from either an LBS or on-line. When I do, I take care of it and expect to get years worth of use.

I also believe in buying quality the first time. The longer something lasts, the cheaper it is.

Mellow Johnny

This is a myth. Home ownership generates a marginal return historically. This can be confirmed by a mutlitude of sources. Certainly not the "best" investment you can make on average over the long haul.

r8ingbull

I wrote that a home was one of the best values you can own, not investment. A hammer offers great value to a carpenter but little value to a dentist, I think we all can agree that it represents a terrible investment (based on % of return) for anyone.

I will agree that homeownership is not for everyone. I will also agree that one can make much higher rates of return on many other investments.

Roody

I try to look at gear sensibly. A lot of what's sold in the LBS is really for fashion rather than utility. Jerseys are a prime example. A poly T shirt is just as good as a jersey for maybe a tenth the cost.

Bike shorts, on the other hand, I find are a real value. But the $35 pair is good enough, the $200 pair is only a little better. A pair of shorts will last over a year of daily riding if you wash them frequently. Rain gear in your climate is probably a good thing to have. If you need it for warm weather you're going to have to pay a lot (like $200 on sale) to stay dry. But in cool rains, when sweating isn't a problem, the cheap nylon (maybe $30) will actually keep you dryer than Goretex. Personally, in a warm rain I'd just as soon get wet rather than mess with rain gear.

Student backpacks are very well made now and have features that only high end bags had a few years ago. They will be on sale soon (back to school specials) for $40 or so for a great one. True weatherproof messenger bags are going to set you back a lot, of course.

Cages and bottles--you can get 'em cheap from the LBS. A 20 OZ pop bottle works fine in a $4 cage. As for bike components, use some common sense there too. For example, is a 10 speed cassette really worth the extra money over an 8 speed? For most riders, no. Top of the line parts aren't that much better than the cheaper group for most of us.

makeinu

..

Roody

Actually r8ingbull said "they only cost $20 for a pair of each." Or $10 for bottle/cage. Still a bit steep, IMO. Some roadies pay like $30 for a carbon fiber (aka "plastic") cage!


Well said! This is my philosophy for the bikes themselves. My first bike was a used Walmart that I [over]paid $30 for. Within about 3 months I knew enough to buy a good used bike that lasted me more than 3 years.

This frugal bike stuff is so good that I'm going to start a new thread for it. See y'll there!

Elkhound

It won't work for bananas, but try investing in a pressure canner. "Eat what you can, and what you can't eat you can can." (Cue Offenbach.)

Roody

makeinu

https://www.hevre.co.il/images/Forum_...s/15280777.mp3

pedex

you can dehydrate bananas quite well though......

Roody

Mmmmm.....banana chips......

I love a banana for a ride. they get all warm and mushy, and nothing tastes better just when you're getting ready to bonk. And frugal....much cheaper than those bars and goos and drinks. Why, those aren't even food at all!

gwd

No. The landlord tenant office told me they are separate issues. You're changing to extreme scenarios by bringing up natural catastrophies. I'd expect a prorated refund if the other party to a contract can't meet the contractual obligation. I can only describe what I experienced - landlord issues resolved in my favor within a day of calling the landlord tenant office. The second time even resulted in the landlord making a long apology on the phone and offering to put the apology in writing. Not catastrophic disasters but the more common occurance of the landlord not meeting contractual or legal obligations. You, the tenant have to negotiate with the landlord to change terms of the lease in your favor and you have to come up with the cash, other than that everything else is the same. Not free but not a lot of work.

makeinu

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that they aren't separate issues in your locale. All I'm saying is that prepayment is disadvantageous for tenants for the same reason it's advantageous for landlords. Having possession (and therefore control) of the money is worth something more than just interest. That's why your landlord was willing to offer such a discount. If anyone has a greater appetite for risk than his landlord then, by all means, take the discount. However, I personally like my risk served with a label of quantifiable ingredients such as those found in the investment reports provided by my brokerage. I'm not an actuary. I don't know how to quantify the risk presented by the possibilities of natural catastrophes, disappearing landlords, or incompetency in government offices.

YoungerNow

Or, peel and freeze them. They're an enjoyable, healthier alternative to ice cream.

gwd

So ask your broker to compute the annual rate of return on a 1 year prepayment and 7% discount if you can't do it yourself. Ask about taxable equivalent yields since the IRS doesn't get involved in a lease negotiation. Did you really have a landlord disappear on you? How did that effect you? What hapened to the property title? I once had a property manager at an apartment complex take all the cash and the books and skip town but the management company honored the tenant receipts.